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Old 04-16-2012   #21
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I've gone back and forth with the Fleener pick. I Think if we want a TE primarily be a receiver we'd be better served picking up ladarius green in the third.

I'd much rather have worthy or a trade down instead of fleener. Worthy is a stud and would add awesome to the dine. A trade down would give us additional picks.

I really like quick and Lewis. I like the o line picks.

Not a fan of the qb pick and would rather add a vet and udfa's for camp arms and practice squad and let them compete for qb #3. Draftwise I'd rather have a safety or another offensive weapon.

I love the kicker. Would like to get battering ram at full back.
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Old 04-16-2012   #22
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

JMO, don't kill the messenger.

1. Fleener, I know he's a great player but I don't like him for the Texans, maybe a late round TE for some depth but even that's a stretch for me. I'd prefer some D-line like Still, Reyes, Worthy, Thompson, or Nick Perry-OLB. I could endorse this pick only if he replaced OD this year.
2. Quick, I've read alot of good things about this guy and he's got all the measurable's but I worry about his ability to transition to the NFL due to the level of competition he faced in college. It's a huge step up for him.
3. Lewis, I like this pick here, good value if available.
4a. Blake, I like the pick, O-line depth is always a good thing.
4b. Adcock, see above, I see him as an OG in a couple years.
5. Lindley, I think he's got some potential but I don't think we'll be drafting a QB, I think we'll look for a vet that gets cut at the end of training camp.
6. Bullock, I love this pick, might be the best one on the list as it should solidify K for the next decade at least.
7. Kitchen, I don't know much about him but I'm glad to see some size being added to the D, probably goes to the PS where he hopefully can develop quickly.
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Old 04-16-2012   #23
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
I'm not disagreeing with your numbers, but I just don't see us as a pass happy team in today's NFL. Probably one of the most balanced offenses in the league. 4,000 yds is about average when half the QB's in the league are throwing for 5,000+ yds. Doesn't really matter in the end, if you think Blake or Molk is the better guy that's who you take. Good stuff.
That's quite an exaggeration.
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Old 04-16-2012   #24
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

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That's quite an exaggeration.
It's called sarcasm...

Texans were 18th in passing offense last year. Yes, Schaub being hurt definitely contributed to that but I don't see us as a top 5 passing offense anymore. I think Kubiak sees the value of the running game after last year and we'll go forward more balanced.
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Old 04-16-2012   #25
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
I'm not disagreeing with your numbers, but I just don't see us as a pass happy team in today's NFL. Probably one of the most balanced offenses in the league. 4,000 yds is about average when half the QB's in the league are throwing for 5,000+ yds. Doesn't really matter in the end, if you think Blake or Molk is the better guy that's who you take. Good stuff.
Totally agree with the balance team statements and something I really like to see in NFL team. Hopefully both Schaub & AJ will come back healthy and we can kick some butt. Enjoyed the discussion!
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Old 04-16-2012   #26
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

I am a big fan of this mock...

I love Fleener at #26. A package with AJ, Fleener, OD, Casey at FB and Arian out of the backfield would cause HUGE matchup problems for secondaries. It would also be ideal for running the ball.
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Old 04-16-2012   #27
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

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Originally Posted by Seņor Stan View Post
I am a big fan of this mock...

I love Fleener at #26. A package with AJ, Fleener, OD, Casey at FB and Arian out of the backfield would cause HUGE matchup problems for secondaries. It would also be ideal for running the ball.
The entire reason WR is a huge need for the Texans is that if AJ goes down we have ZERO #1 options at the WR spot. And Fleener or Quick wont fix that.

Without trading for a big time WR, I cannot get on-board with drafting a TE in the first round.
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Old 04-16-2012   #28
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

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The entire reason WR is a huge need for the Texans is that if AJ goes down we have ZERO #1 options at the WR spot. And Fleener or Quick wont fix that.

Without trading for a big time WR, I cannot get on-board with drafting a TE in the first round.
This doesn't make any sense. Explain who in this entire draft we could draft that would be a number one option at WR if AJ went down? There is no one! The TE position is becoming more and more important in todays NFL. Having a huge, fast TE with great hands to add to this offense for Schaub to throw to (which is his strength) would do more for this offense than you are realizing.

For starters it stops opposing defenses from putting safeties in the box which in turn helps the running game. He also would instantly become a top red zone target. That alone is worth the #26 pick.
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Old 04-16-2012   #29
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

I like the mock overall, but I just can't see Ronnell Lewis being there in the 3rd. If he is, that would be a steal. Walter's consensus ranking of him is around 50. LINK However, Brian Quick is ranked at 75. So if you swapped those two, it would be more realistic.

Anyways, good effort to you all, keep up the good work!
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Old 04-16-2012   #30
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

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I like the mock overall, but I just can't see Ronnell Lewis being there in the 3rd. If he is, that would be a steal. Walter's consensus ranking of him is around 50. LINK However, Brian Quick is ranked at 75. So if you swapped those two, it would be more realistic.

Anyways, good effort to you all, keep up the good work!
Agreed, if the Texans are even considering Lewis. If they were going for a headcase OLB grab Bruce Irvin who has can't-teach-that speed. Upside is much higher.

Diggin Fleener. It's not need or BPA (well, maybe BPA). It's strength beyond strength. Sledgen von Hammertime. Power. Another blanket to keep Schaub upright. A possible #2 receiver.

I think they may want a veteran backup as #3 QB. Would open up a pick for a DB or return man.

Nice effort fellas and may I say, best mock yet.
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Old 04-16-2012   #31
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
I like the mock overall, but I just can't see Ronnell Lewis being there in the 3rd. If he is, that would be a steal. Walter's consensus ranking of him is around 50. LINK However, Brian Quick is ranked at 75. So if you swapped those two, it would be more realistic.

Anyways, good effort to you all, keep up the good work!
Agreed BUT CSSPORTS.com has Lewis as 65th so...


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings

At some point, you identify the player you want and get him when you know you can rather than hope all the points add up; same with trades on draft day.
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Old 04-16-2012   #32
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

Coby Fleener? We're talking about a dude who has almost the exact same stats in college as Garrett Graham did, except that the Badgers are in the Big Ten, and Stanford is in the...well...Pac-12, which might or might not equal out in competition.

The facts are, I wouldn't crap on the Texans if they took Fleener that high, but I still think the best TE in this years draft is James Hanna from Oklahoma, from the standpoint of how the Texans use the TE. Plus, Hanna is more well versed as a blocker while Fleeners stats are inflated because of Luck.

Big 12. Let's have some Hanna in a later round for a better value. He's a superb athlete, who blocks and can catch well.

After all, our need for TE really won't show itself until after next year.
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Old 04-16-2012   #33
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

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Fleeners stats are inflated because of Luck
What does that even mean?
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Old 04-16-2012   #34
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

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What does that even mean?
It means these guys were playing pitch and catch all over a few suspect defenses. Often you have a good WR or TE who looks like a monster if the QB is aces and can lay it right int o them. Pitch and catch.

Fleener is great. Just not great enough for the Texans in the 1st round, however. At least, that's my opinion. If the Texans take him at #26, fine.
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Old 04-17-2012   #35
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

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Fleeners stats are inflated because of Luck.
Im concerned that his stats arent greater considering Luck .... If he was a world beater , he'd have a lot more than 34 catches in a season.


I get the idea that because of the success of New England this past season , many are putting too much stock in the position. This is a copy cat league ... but its hard to copy when you dont have the personel.
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Old 04-17-2012   #36
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

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This doesn't make any sense. Explain who in this entire draft we could draft that would be a number one option at WR if AJ went down? There is no one!
Blackmon, Floyd and Wright all have a better shot at being our #1 WR than Fleener has at starting TE. They tore up the college level. Something Fleener has not done.

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The TE position is becoming more and more important in todays NFL. Having a huge, fast TE with great hands to add to this offense for Schaub to throw to (which is his strength) would do more for this offense than you are realizing.

For starters it stops opposing defenses from putting safeties in the box which in turn helps the running game. He also would instantly become a top red zone target. That alone is worth the #26 pick.
Fleener had 34 freaking catches in 13 games last season. If he is so HUGE and FAST then tell me why his stats are so weak? Stop trying to boast him as an all world TE because he is not. He is becoming one of the most overrated prospects in this draft due to Gronk and Hernandez in NE. Not to mention, Gronk went in the 2nd round and Hernandez in the 4th.

Bottom line Fleener is a luxury pick with Daniels and Graham on the roster.
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Old 04-17-2012   #37
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

I would not be disappointed with Fleener being selected. However, durability and blocking ability are a concern for me. Moreover, it is one thing to have a big target in the Red Zone, it is another thing to get the ball to that target - I have yet to see anything from Schaub or Yates that give me confidence we would be able to leverage Fleener's size and hands in tight space.
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Old 04-17-2012   #38
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

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The entire reason WR is a huge need for the Texans is that if AJ goes down we have ZERO #1 options at the WR spot. And Fleener or Quick wont fix that.

Without trading for a big time WR, I cannot get on-board with drafting a TE in the first round.
Blake, gonna disagree with you as I think the main reason WR is needed is to take pressure off AJ and give QB another option. JJ and Walter are not the WR 2-3 that we need. A starter can go down at any position and it would be nice to have a good replacement for AJ but there is not one at #26 imo. We will not trade for a big time WR due to cap costs or we would have gone after one of the FA receivers.

It is as possible for Fleener to eventually be WR1 as anyone else available.
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Old 04-17-2012   #39
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

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Blackmon, Floyd and Wright all have a better shot at being our #1 WR than Fleener has at starting TE. They tore up the college level. Something Fleener has not done.



Fleener had 34 freaking catches in 13 games last season. If he is so HUGE and FAST then tell me why his stats are so weak? Stop trying to boast him as an all world TE because he is not. He is becoming one of the most overrated prospects in this draft due to Gronk and Hernandez in NE. Not to mention, Gronk went in the 2nd round and Hernandez in the 4th.

Bottom line Fleener is a luxury pick with Daniels and Graham on the roster.
Hindsight is 20-20 but if other teams projected Gronk or Hernandez to become what they are today do you seriously feel ski is still a 2nd rounder or dez a 4th? seriously dude, be realistic & this is just part of the attraction. The fact Kubiak probably knows how to utilize TE skill sets better than any head coach in the NFL makes a lot of us Texan fans drool

Now combine this with Fleener is faster 4.4's & stronger 27 reps to 23 to Gronk. 47 receptions, 672 yards 14.3 average per catch & 10 TD's his last season in Arizona, year before 28 rec 525 yds 18.75 avg. 8 TD's. I just don't see a disturbing difference here to Coby's production, actually very similar more a function of two conservative head coaches. 34 receptions, 667 yards (within 5 yards) 19.62 average per catch 10 TD's the freaking same. Very similar numbers previous season, 28 receptions (same) 434 yards 15.5 avg. 7 TD's. Also Coby had two previous seasons of development @ Stanford under Harbaugh. Vernon Davis is another excellent receiving TE, his last two most productive seasons track right along with Gronk & Fleener 52 receptions, 871 yards, 17.1 average per catch & 6 TD's. Previous year, 28 receptions, 439 yards 15.7 average pre catch & 3 TD's. Selected 6th overall based not as much on his production, cause both Gronk & Fleener compare favorably but based off his combine workout. Faster & stronger than both, but lacks size/length or TD production. Size does matter in the NFL (so does speed & strength) but Fleener may be the best combination of all three of these tremendous players, especially in Kubiaks offense & some people still don't feel his value is worth 26th pick
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Old 04-17-2012   #40
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Default Re: Badboy, rmartin65 & beerlover Final 2012 Group Mock

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but I still think the best TE in this years draft is James Hanna from Oklahoma, from the standpoint of how the Texans use the TE. Plus, Hanna is more well versed as a blocker while Fleeners stats are inflated because of Luck.

Big 12. Let's have some Hanna in a later round for a better value. He's a superb athlete, who blocks and can catch well.

Hannah is who I'd target over Fleener. Will be cheaper, and quite possibly better.
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