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Old 03-26-2012   #21
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Default Re: Rashard Butler-working hard (video)

Yep! Russian twists can do damage to your lumber spine. According to Dr. McGill there's 2 things that will injure your low back, forward flexion under load (think someone lifting something off the ground with a rounded back) and forward flexion while twisting (there's some of that going on in the Russian twist Butler was doing). This information isn't new and anyone working with professional athletes should know this. I'd be POed if one of our key players got hurt doing something stupid like this. The key to safe and effective exercise is to tax the musculature while sparring the joints.
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Old 03-26-2012   #22
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Default Re: Rashard Butler-working hard (video)

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Originally Posted by otisbean View Post
Yep! Russian twists can do damage to your lumber spine. According to Dr. McGill there's 2 things that will injure your low back, forward flexion under load (think someone lifting something off the ground with a rounded back) and forward flexion while twisting (there's some of that going on in the Russian twist Butler was doing). This information isn't new and anyone working with professional athletes should know this. I'd be POed if one of our key players got hurt doing something stupid like this. The key to safe and effective exercise is to tax the musculature while sparring the joints.
Yep.

The spine is essentially one elongated bone broken up into sections but held together as a single, but flexible unit.

It's almost impossible to break a short bone, such as a pinkie finger. It's like trying to snap a short, thick twig. But longer bones have less tensile strength because of the leverage issues that are used against it...this is why it's easier to snap a femur than it is a pinkie toe.

So why would any trainer put that kind of torque and leverage, with that kind of weight, onto a player's lower back? It surely seems a bad way to try to condition the core. And it's doing no favors to the lower back.

Is the guy leading those exercises a Texans staff person? All I can do is hope that someone with the Texans sees that video and puts a stop to it.
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Old 03-26-2012   #23
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Default Re: Rashard Butler-working hard (video)

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Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
so I had too look up Cushing (been a while )

here is Brian Cushing and JJ Watt Triceps Death -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l7Mes2SBo4

if Watt and Cushing are workout partners ..holy crap that is awesome
I just hope Watt doesn't get pregnant....
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Old 03-26-2012   #24
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Default Re: Rashard Butler-working hard (video)

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Originally Posted by GP View Post

So why would any trainer put that kind of torque and leverage, with that kind of weight, onto a player's lower back? It surely seems a bad way to try to condition the core. And it's doing no favors to the lower back.

Is the guy leading those exercises a Texans staff person? All I can do is hope that someone with the Texans sees that video and puts a stop to it.
I don't think this guy is on the Texans staff, and I don't know why trainers have clients do this, but it's pretty rampant. Here's 2 simple exercises that accomplish a similar training effect in a safer manner:

Pallof presses:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzE553my1o8

Med Ball rotational throw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CrF0Rqna0I

notice how this guys low back is straight and stable
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Old 03-26-2012   #25
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Default Re: Rashard Butler-working hard (video)

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Not exactly Cushing-type intensity. But good to see Butler is trying to get better.


That's plenty of intensity for a guy his size & circumstance (coming back off injury). Hell, those knee bends with 225 lbs ...that's tough as hell.

All in all good to see though............Homie wants that starting RT spot to be his, no questions asked...no competition needed.

That inception score at the beginning with the guy talking over it too....nice touch as that's 1 of my favorite movie scores.
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Old 03-26-2012   #26
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Default Re: Rashard Butler-working hard (video)

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Originally Posted by otisbean View Post
That's pretty funny! Not overly impressed with the workout. Some of the exercise selections are BAAAAD. Med ball sit ups and russian twists are very hard on the lumbar spine. For anyone interested on proper core training, check out www.backfitpro.com. Stuart McGill is a PhD in Biomechanics and all he does is study the spine and how it get injured. He's the man in this area and if any of you have an back issues his site is worth looking into.

BTW, on JJ Watt video, watch his body position on landing on the box. I trained a female volleyball player in California coming off a broken wrist from doing high box jumps. I'd be pissed if we lost JJ for half the season because he broke his wrist falling off a box.
good post. My StepSon Jayson just injured his shins doing high box jumps in offseason conditioning for hsi football team. I told him not to overextend himself and not to try to impress anyone when his football team does those....nasty cuts, glad he didn't break a bone.
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Old 03-26-2012   #27
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Default Re: Rashard Butler-working hard (video)

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Yep.

The spine is essentially one elongated bone broken up into sections but held together as a single, but flexible unit.

It's almost impossible to break a short bone, such as a pinkie finger. It's like trying to snap a short, thick twig. But longer bones have less tensile strength because of the leverage issues that are used against it...this is why it's easier to snap a femur than it is a pinkie toe.

So why would any trainer put that kind of torque and leverage, with that kind of weight, onto a player's lower back? It surely seems a bad way to try to condition the core. And it's doing no favors to the lower back.

Is the guy leading those exercises a Texans staff person? All I can do is hope that someone with the Texans sees that video and puts a stop to it.
You can get hurt doing almost any weight lifting incorrectly....See most guys like to get in the gym and lift as much weight as possible; Most sacrifice technique to do that.


Look at the dumbasses in the gym with 300lbs loaded up on the bench press who bouce the weight up off their chest as their triceps begin to fatigue....

the guys with dumbbells who "rock" to gain leverage when doing bicep curls...

the guys on the squat rack who are using too much back...

As Otisbean said, some of what he was doing can do damage but that's mainly to the jackwagons who get in the gym & use horrible technique & try to go too fast & lift too much weight. You can get away with it if you do it slowly & with good technique...which Butler was doing.
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Old 03-26-2012   #28
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Default Re: Rashard Butler-working hard (video)

Quote:
Originally Posted by otisbean View Post
I don't think this guy is on the Texans staff, and I don't know why trainers have clients do this, but it's pretty rampant. Here's 2 simple exercises that accomplish a similar training effect in a safer manner:

Pallof presses:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzE553my1o8

Med Ball rotational throw:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CrF0Rqna0I

notice how this guys low back is straight and stable

Nice series of posts.

One thing that they better focus on is his triceps strength. When he first came out, a big concern (but at the same time a potential positive) was his very long arms. If anyone remembers, during the Combine he demonstrated very poor bench press ability. Improper training to strengthen his triceps could have very well significantly contributed to his rupture.


Quote:
USC's star Bush had more bench press repsCHARLES CHANDLER
cchandler@charlotteobserver.com

Of all the offensive linemen in the NFL draft, Carolina third-round pick Rashad Butler had the longest arms.

His rather extraordinary wingspan measured 36 inches per arm. That gives him a unique advantage over defensive ends, but he'll have to improve his strength to fulfill his promise.

Butler disappointed some scouts at the pre-draft combine with 16 bench-press repetitions of 225 pounds. That's a low amount for an offensive linemen and nine less than the amount recorded by running back Reggie Bush, the No. 2 overall pick.

Butler said he was hoping he could get into the upper teens or low 20s in bench-press repetitions, but knew his long arms would keep his number from being dazzling.

Panthers coach John Fox said while Butler can get stronger, the team isn't overly concerned.

"Sometimes it's a disadvantage with long arms," said Fox. "But as far as his playing strength, we didn't see that being a problem."

Butler played left tackle for the Miami Hurricanes in 2004 and right tackle in '05. He could back up at both positions for the Panthers.

Scouts say Butler has good overall athletic ability and quick feet. He's considered better in pass protection than in the running game.

He struggled against Florida State's extremely talented defense last season but said he learned from the experience.

"I learned in games of that magnitude that you have to relax," said Butler. "I rely on my good techniques, but in that game, when one play went wrong, I got rattled."

It was a much better day for Butler on Saturday. He said he was thrilled when the Panthers called.

"I'm really happy," he said. "I feel so good right now words can't explain it."

Rashad Butler

SELECTION: Round 3; 89th pick

SCHOOL: Miami, Fla.

POSITION: Offensive tackle

HEIGHT: 6-41/2

WEIGHT: 293

40 TIME: 5.2

CAREER HIGHLIGHTS: Started 24 of 39 games at Miami, 16 at right tackle and eight at left tackle. ... Time at left tackle came filling in for injured starter Eric Winston in 2004.

WHAT YOU DIDN'T KNOW: Played the 2005 season as a graduate after obtaining his degree in sociology. Then pursued a second degree in sports administration.

QUOTE: "He's a very athletic tackle who we think has a very good upside and has played at a top level of competition."
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Old 03-26-2012   #29
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Default Re: Rashard Butler-working hard (video)

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
Nice series of posts.

One thing that they better focus on is his triceps strength. When he first came out, a big concern (but at the same time a potential positive) was his very long arms. If anyone remembers, during the Combine he demonstrated very poor bench press ability. Improper training to strengthen his triceps could have very well significantly contributed to his rupture.
I can relate to Butler with the bench press though as i have extremely long arms and it's pretty tough for me to bench just b/c of the obvious.

Eventually you reach a point where things are just too hard to where you question whether you're doing more bad than good, or they are too easy to where you don't feel you're working them hard enough.
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Old 03-26-2012   #30
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Default Re: Rashard Butler-working hard (video)

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
I can relate to Butler with the bench press though as i have extremely long arms and it's pretty tough for me to bench just b/c of the obvious.

Eventually you reach a point where things are just too hard to where you question whether you're doing more bad than good, or they are too easy to where you don't feel you're working them hard enough.
I have long arms too, so its tougher for me to push weight up further than the short armed guy. Most big benchers are short armed guys (look at most bodybuilders and powerlifters...tall guys are the exception, not the rule)...but its my experience that if I'm playing a powerful guy with short arms he is easier to deal with than a long limbed lanky guy who only benches a fraction of what the meatball shaped guy can do. Bench numbers are deceptive when it comes to figuring out how it translates to the field.
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Old 03-26-2012   #31
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Default Re: Rashard Butler-working hard (video)

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I have long arms too, so its tougher for me to push weight up further than the short armed guy. Most big benchers are short armed guys (look at most bodybuilders and powerlifters...tall guys are the exception, not the rule)...but its my experience that if I'm playing a powerful guy with short arms he is easier to deal with than a long limbed lanky guy who only benches a fraction of what the meatball shaped guy can do. Bench numbers are deceptive when it comes to figuring out how it translates to the field.
Yeah look no further than the video that Wolf posted of Cush & Watt & see the difference between a long arm guy and short arm guy. Cush throws his weight up fairly easily & finishes the reps out both times while Watt struggles towards the end & doesn't quite finish out the reps each time.

I'm sure teams have developed some kind of equivalency scale that factors in these kind of differences.

34-reps from a guy with 30 in arm length = 25 reps for a guy with 34+ arm length.
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Old 03-26-2012   #32
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Default Re: Rashard Butler-working hard (video)

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
I can relate to Butler with the bench press though as i have extremely long arms and it's pretty tough for me to bench just b/c of the obvious.

Eventually you reach a point where things are just too hard to where you question whether you're doing more bad than good, or they are too easy to where you don't feel you're working them hard enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
I have long arms too, so its tougher for me to push weight up further than the short armed guy. Most big benchers are short armed guys (look at most bodybuilders and powerlifters...tall guys are the exception, not the rule)...but its my experience that if I'm playing a powerful guy with short arms he is easier to deal with than a long limbed lanky guy who only benches a fraction of what the meatball shaped guy can do. Bench numbers are deceptive when it comes to figuring out how it translates to the field.
My point was that if the trainers tried to develop Butlers strength beyond anatomical reason, injury could have very well been predicted. Add to that a set of steroid injections to the distal tendon for relief of pain in an undiagnosed partial tendon tear. Remember, he was first listed as an "elbow" injury for awhile. The triceps tendon attaches to the "elbow." The next thing you know, his triceps ruptures. Complete distal triceps ruptures, like what Butler experienced, are uncommon injuries. There were only 11 reported in the NFL through a 6 year period (reported in the literature in 2004 and 2010).

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Old 03-26-2012   #33
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Default Re: Rashard Butler-working hard (video)

I know it is y apples to oranges when it training for LB compared to Offensive Tackle

I thought this was interesting (I am assuming this is from 2010)


Here is a link to Cushing's personal training

Quote:
FOOTBALL CONDITIONING: The RIGHT Way!

300-yard shuttles... Sixteen 110-yard sprints..."Gassers"...

For as long as I've been alive, the above three drills have been considered the 'Gold Standard' in football conditioning. I have no clue how these "tests" came about or why they just won't go away. But, hopefully this blog post will start somewhat of a revolution regarding football conditioning...THE RIGHT WAY!

Although I posted a rant (6 years ago) about how disgusted I was with most high school, college & professional football programs and their idea of "football conditioning"; I guess I didn't give away enough answers as to how we were specifically conditioning our football players at my facility. Since six years have passed and not much has changed, I decided to revisit this topic with the hopes of truly making a difference in how strength & conditioning coaches train their football players. This time around I'm not only going to discuss the problem, I'm going to provide you with the specific answers to fix the problem!

OK, let's tackle this topic...

Call me a nerd, but on numerous occasions I've watched an entire football game with my trusty stopwatch in hand and I've timed everything -- average length of a play, average rest between plays, length of TV timeouts during NFL & NCAA games, average rest between each series, length of halftime, etc. Just for ****s and giggles, I did this again today while watching the Giants game in preparation of writing this blog post. Here are the highlights:

Average play = 5.5 seconds

Average rest between plays = 32 seconds
Average rest between each series for an individual player = 7 minutes
(This obviously wouldn't apply to a high school player that goes both ways.)

Time between last play of 1st Half and first play of 2nd Half = 18 minutes



The above information shouldn't surprise anyone - even a casual fan. You also don't need a PhD in Exercise Physiology to figure out that the energy system that the body calls upon when playing football is the anaerobic energy system. But, here's the "catch" where I feel most coaches go wrong with regards to conditioning for football. (Don't worry; this won't be too technical. Stay with me for a couple more seconds, then we'll get to the fun stuff!) There are two types of anaerobic systems:

#1) The ATP-PC System (Alactic): This system doesn't require or produce oxygen. It's used for quick, explosive activities that last up to 10 seconds.

#2) The Anaerobic Glycolysis System (Lactic): This system doesn't require oxygen either, but it does produce lactic acid. It's used during activities that last between 10 seconds to 1 minute.

Going back to the three most popular football conditioning tests (110's, gassers, 300-yard shuttles); you can see that they fall into the Anaerobic/Lactic System because they take approximately 15 seconds to 1 minute, respectively, to complete.
Why the hell are coaches choosing exercises/tests that take up to 1 minute to complete, when it's a fact that the average football play lasts only about 5 seconds?!? Even an unusually "long" football play will only last 10-11 seconds! Yet, the most popular football conditioning tests measure the efficiency of the athlete's Anaerobic/Lactic system, even though football is an Anaerobic/Alactic sport!!! Strength & conditioning coaches are basically comparing apples to oranges. It's a shame because there's football players every summer who fail their conditioning test during training camp, even though they're actually in "real" football shape!

Here's the deal: I'm calling out all the football strength & conditioning coaches that read this -- I challenge you to start designing all your conditioning/energy system workouts and testing protocols specific to what's actually required during a football game!! Simply put, from this point on, your athletes should be focussing on exercises that require 4-10 seconds of intense activity, followed by 20-40 seconds of rest
Quote:
Below you'll find Brian Cushing's "gameday conditioning" workout from this past weekend, along with some video highlights from the actual workout.
Quote:
HE WORKOUT...

Warm-up: "I Hate Warming Up (Warm-up)" then 2 sets of 15 TKE's.

"1ST QUARTER"

1st_quarter

"1st Series" - Tire Battle into 10-yard sprint: 4 sets, 30sec. rest b/t sets. After the 4th set, rest 2min.

"2nd Series" - Tire Flip-Sprint-Tire Flip: 4 sets, 40sec. rest b/t sets. After the 4th set, rest 2min.

"3rd Series" - Tire Battle into 5-yard sprint: 4 sets, 20sec. rest b/t sets.

*Rest 4 minutes between quarters.


"2ND QUARTER"

2nd_quarter

"1st Series" - Hand-over-Hand Rope Pull into Prowler Push: 4 sets, 40sec. rest b/t sets. After the 4th set, rest 3min.

"2nd Series" - Resisted TredSled Sprints: 5 sets of 6sec. w/ 40sec. rest b/t sprints. After 5th sprint, rest 3min.

"3rd Series" - Hand-over-Hand Rope Pull into Prowler Push: 4 sets, 40sec. rest b/t sets.

REST 5 minutes between quarters.


"3RD QUARTER" (Wearing 12lb. Weight Vest)

3rd_Quarter

"1st Series" - Rope Battle 'Quick Waves' w/Side Shuffle: 6 sets, 20sec. rest b/t sets. Rest 2min. after 6th set.

"2nd Series" - 60-yard shuttle: 2 sets, 40sec. rest b/t sets. Rest 4min. after 2nd shuttle.

"3rd Series" - 20-yard (side shuffle) Pro Shuttle: 6 sets, 30-40sec. rest b/t sets.

Rest 4 minutes between quarters.



"4TH QUARTER" (Wearing 12lb. Weight Vest)

4th_quarter

"1st Series" - Tire Flip-Sprint-Tire Flip: 5 sets, 30sec. rest b/t sets. Rest 3min. after 5th set.

"2nd Series" - Tire Battle into 10-yard sprint: 4 sets, 30sec. rest b/t sets. Rest 2min. after 4th set.

"3rd Series" - 15-yard Resisted Sled Sprint (resistance around waist): 4 sets, 20sec. rest b/t sets.

[All exercises performed during this workout required 5 to 10.5 seconds of explosive work. The two 60-yard shuttles were thrown in the 3rd Quarter to experience two "longer plays" (11.5 seconds & 12 seconds) while in a fatigued state.]
http://www.defrancostraining.com/ask...right-way.html
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Old 03-26-2012   #34
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Default Re: Rashard Butler-working hard (video)

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
My point was that if the trainers tried to develop Butlers strength beyond anatomical reason, injury could have very well been predicted. Add to that a set of steroid injections to the distal tendon for relief of pain in an undiagnosed partial tendon tear. Remember, he was first listed as an "elbow" injury for awhile. The triceps tendon attaches to the "elbow." The next thing you know, his triceps ruptures. Complete distal triceps ruptures, like what Butler experienced, are uncommon injuries. There were only 11 reported in the NFL through a 6 year period (reported in the literature in 2004 and 2010).
I wasn't trying argue your point and sorry if I came across that way...I was just musing that long armed guys have more leverage on the field and lower totals in the gym as a general rule anyway. If I remember correctly Butler needed more strength work coming out of school so I agree with you on that and I'll leave the medical part to the good Doctor. I'm sure that is part of why he was a project with upside.
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Old 03-26-2012   #35
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Default Re: Rashard Butler-working hard (video)

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Originally Posted by Vinny View Post
I wasn't trying argue your point and sorry if I came across that way...I was just musing that long armed guys have more leverage on the field and lower totals in the gym as a general rule anyway. If I remember correctly Butler needed more strength work coming out of school so I agree with you on that and I'll leave the medical part to the good Doctor. I'm sure that is part of why he was a project with upside.
Vinny, I Never felt you were arguing my point. And you were absolutely correct about the leverage field vs gym performance.
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Old 04-02-2012   #36
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Default Re: Rashard Butler-working hard (video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7VDZ8ApkFI

Rashad Butler Part 2
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Old 04-10-2012   #37
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Default Re: Rashard Butler-working hard (video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5guZk6AzFI
Part 3
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Old 04-10-2012   #38
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Default Re: Rashard Butler-working hard (video)

I'll just say I'm glad to see a player who is being put in the starter role having a work ethic as if nothing is being handed to him still.
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