Arian Foster and the NCAA

[Rey]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Really? So when folks on tennis, skiing or golf scholarships spend time charging for lessons it doesn't impair their educational experience but if a football player does then it is a threat. The inconsistency is stark. There should be one rule.

I agree that there should be one rule.

That said, most of the other sports like swimming, track, golf and tennis didn't require the hours that were put into football. As a football player you really dint have a lot of free time. Class during the day. Maybe a break somewhere for lunch, practice, dinner, meetings until about 9:30 if you're lucky. Most nights you get out after 10.

Off season you get more time, but we still were waking up at 4:30 am for workouts, shower, class, evening weight lifting, only have meetings for sharing information.

Summertime, you get a few weeks off then you're back at school training. Around September you start two a days with meetings at night.

The only Students that I saw working as much as us was the band. I think they actually had it just as hard or maybe even harder.

But I do agree that it should be one rule, but I think the major sports at that particular school should set the tone.

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Really? So when folks on tennis, skiing or golf scholarships spend time charging for lessons it doesn't impair their educational experience but if a football player does then it is a threat. The inconsistency is stark. There should be one rule.

How many athletes are "Really good students" to begin with ?

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by Rey

I agree that there should be one rule.

That said, most of the other sports like swimming, track, golf and tennis didn't require the hours that were put into football. As a football player you really dint have a lot of free time. Class during the day. Maybe a break somewhere for lunch, practice, dinner, meetings until about 9:30 if you're lucky. Most nights you get out after 10.

Originally Posted by Corrosion

How many athletes are "Really good students" to begin with ?

Well I will respond this way. My ex-wife was on the mens water polo team at the University of Carolina Chapel Hill - hardly a shabby school putting up with a glitzy athlete. She spent tons of time in the water practicing for her sport. She did it while doing well enough in getting her nursing degree to be offered a bunch of head nursing/hospital administrator positions prior to going to law school. And she is 5' 2". My roommate at Berkeley had a soccer scholarship and was a straight A engineering student even though we spent a ton of time pit crewing and ultimately racing together. Obviously all athletes are not as good academically, but some are.

But bottom line, assuming a tennis player spends less time practicing (dubious but OK) why should they be rewarded with being allowed to charge $50 an hour for tennis lessons while a football player is prohibited from signing autographs? The rules are truly goofy. If a football player happens to know how to play tennis he can't charge for lessons but a scholarship tennis player can? It makes no sense.

[Hagar]

LSU makes more money on ticket sales from a single home game than it does in tuition for the entire fall semester. While there are a lot of moving parts to a football team, but more than anyone, the players generate that revenue and should get a cut.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Well I will respond this way. My ex-wife was on the mens water polo team at the University of Carolina Chapel Hill - hardly a shabby school putting up with a glitzy athlete. She spent tons of time in the water practicing for her sport. She did it while doing well enough in getting her nursing degree to be offered a bunch of head nursing/hospital administrator positions prior to going to law school. And she is 5' 2". My roommate at Berkeley had a soccer scholarship and was a straight A engineering student even though we spent a ton of time pit crewing and ultimately racing together. Obviously all athletes are not as good academically, but some are.

But bottom line, assuming a tennis player spends less time practicing (dubious but OK) why should they be rewarded with being allowed to charge $50 an hour for tennis lessons while a football player is prohibited from signing autographs? The rules are truly goofy. If a football player happens to know how to play tennis he can't charge for lessons but a scholarship tennis player can? It makes no sense.

I wasn't really assuming, and I get what you're saying. It's different for every school. At FAMU football was THE major sport and the band was actually the main attraction at the school.

I know for a fact that the other sports didn't put in as much time. Practice aside. Our meetings, required study hall and off-season work outs alone probably trumped their practice time. But besides that, we drew the most fans and generated the most money.

All that said I still think the money should be split equally amongst all the players in all the sports.

And I was actually never told I couldn't have a job. I had never even heard that. But it just wasn't feasible.

I have three brothers playing college ball right now. Two just started this spring and one is about to be a fifth year senior at sfa. He cannot work during the season. It's not possible. He really can't work during the off season either. The only time he has that he can work is the few weeks he's home during summer. And when he can find work it's usually not what I'd call a real job.

And some of the rules regarding what a kid can do for work are goody, but I think football players can work as long as they are doing legit work. You can't get 150 dollars from a "random person" for 30 mins worth of work.

One of my brothers friends is a Freeman on a full scholarship at Nebraska. I know he said they aren't allowed to tweet and stuff like that during the season, but I'm going to ask him if they said anything about employment during the summer.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by Hagar

LSU makes more money on ticket sales from a single home game than it does in tuition for the entire fall semester. While there are a lot of moving parts to a football team, but more than anyone, the players generate that revenue and should get a cut.

That's what I'm saying. Just from ticket sales alone a lot of these teams are making serious dough. Then you add in merchandise and the other smaller revenue streams. They can afford to at least pay the players like 300-500 a semester and not sweat it.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Well I will respond this way. My ex-wife was on the mens water polo team at the University of Carolina Chapel Hill - hardly a shabby school putting up with a glitzy athlete. She spent tons of time in the water practicing for her sport. She did it while doing well enough in getting her nursing degree to be offered a bunch of head nursing/hospital administrator positions prior to going to law school. And she is 5' 2". My roommate at Berkeley had a soccer scholarship and was a straight A engineering student even though we spent a ton of time pit crewing and ultimately racing together. Obviously all athletes are not as good academically, but some are.

But bottom line, assuming a tennis player spends less time practicing (dubious but OK) why should they be rewarded with being allowed to charge $50 an hour for tennis lessons while a football player is prohibited from signing autographs? The rules are truly goofy. If a football player happens to know how to play tennis he can't charge for lessons but a scholarship tennis player can? It makes no sense.

I'm not opposed to them being allowed to have jobs, but I doubt that many of the football players would get real jobs. They spend at least 40 hours a week doing football stuff, probably more, on top of attending class and studying. I'm fairly certain the rule was put in place to prevent players from getting paid $100 a day to "mow a lawn" or some other fake jobs that take 30 minutes. Jobs were used as a way to give money to players in a way that appears legal, so the NCAA nixed it for football players because no one was sending $1000 a week to the women's tennis captain to walk their dog.

Besides that, the point in Arian's video was that players need to be paid because they are so poor they eat ramen noodles all the time. That's just BS IMO. The top tier players get lots of money, and many get extra illegal money under the table from boosters of the schools. Starters most certainly get taken care of, as I saw at A&M when I was there. Those guys aren't driving around in BMWs their parents gave them or wearing $500 shoes they got for Christmas from Santa. All of it comes from somewhere, either their "own" money or gifts from people close the programs.

They are getting free education, books, room and board on top of free money through grants and such. The starters are getting lots of money, and the only guys that might be getting shaft are the third string players who only get a few hundred bucks a week. My friend at A&M was a walk-on for their football team for 4 years and got at least $120 for each week. He wasn't on scholarship or anything, but he got checks from the athletic club each week. Guys like the starting QB, RB etc got about $1000-$1500 a week from them. It's not uncommon, it's just how things worked.

Oh and most of them don't really need much money for dates, as the big universities have programs that turn out to be semi-escort services used for recruiting and team events. We had a couple at A&M called "Diamond Darlings" for the baseball team and "Aggie Hostesses" for football. Not all of the girls were slutty, but the one's who help with recruiting the most tend to be comparable to escorts. They show them around town and make sure they have a "good time" during their visit. Then keep up with the players until they choose a school, and dump them immediately if they don't choose their school. It's pretty sad really.

Some players do get hurt on the field and that is a valid problem, but the NCAA did address this by adding a Catastrophic Insurance Program program that will pay up to $20,000,000 for care and coverage (long term) for athletes, coaches, etc injured in a covered event. That sounds pretty reasonable to me. Before this fund, I would imagine that injured players had to sue the school/athletic program to get paid for serious injuries.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/...urance+Program

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

I'm not opposed to them being allowed to have jobs, but I doubt that many of the football players would get real jobs. They spend at least 40 hours a week doing football stuff, probably more, on top of attending class and studying. I'm fairly certain the rule was put in place to prevent players from getting paid $100 a day to "mow a lawn" or some other fake jobs that take 30 minutes. Jobs were used as a way to give money to players in a way that appears legal, so the NCAA nixed it for football players because no one was sending $1000 a week to the women's tennis captain to walk their dog.

Besides that, the point in Arian's video was that players need to be paid because they are so poor they eat ramen noodles all the time. That's just BS IMO. The top tier players get lots of money, and many get extra illegal money under the table from boosters of the schools. Starters most certainly get taken care of, as I saw at A&M when I was there. Those guys aren't driving around in BMWs their parents gave them or wearing $500 shoes they got for Christmas from Santa. All of it comes from somewhere, either their "own" money or gifts from people close the programs.

They are getting free education, books, room and board on top of free money through grants and such. The starters are getting lots of money, and the only guys that might be getting shaft are the third string players who only get a few hundred bucks a week. My friend at A&M was a walk-on for their football team for 4 years and got at least $120 for each week. He wasn't on scholarship or anything, but he got checks from the athletic club each week. Guys like the starting QB, RB etc got about $1000-$1500 a week from them. It's not uncommon, it's just how things worked.

Oh and most of them don't really need much money for dates, as the big universities have programs that turn out to be semi-escort services used for recruiting and team events. We had a couple at A&M called "Diamond Darlings" for the baseball team and "Aggie Hostesses" for football. Not all of the girls were slutty, but the one's who help with recruiting the most tend to be comparable to escorts. They show them around town and make sure they have a "good time" during their visit. Then keep up with the players until they choose a school, and dump them immediately if they don't choose their school. It's pretty sad really.

Some players do get hurt on the field and that is a valid problem, but the NCAA did address this by adding a Catastrophic Insurance Program program that will pay up to $20,000,000 for care and coverage (long term) for athletes, coaches, etc injured in a covered event. That sounds pretty reasonable to me. Before this fund, I would imagine that injured players had to sue the school/athletic program to get paid for serious injuries.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/...urance+Program

You just proved Foster's point. Except for the new insurance program you mentioned, all those new shoes, BMWs, weekly "stipends", etc. are supposed to be ILLEGAL. That crap is done under the table. As you pointed out, players are already getting paid by boosters and such when, by rules, they shouldn't be.

Foster's message is: Fix the dang process so those "payoffs" are legal and above board.

[BigBull17]

I have been there, playing for Arkansas State for a year before my shoulder gave out and I was done. Let me tell you, when you have a poor family and are hundreds of miles or more away from home, you need some cash flow. You can't work, so you are basically stranded in a dorm and it gets super ****ing depressing. One idea I have had is to stop with the numbers on NCAA football and use their likeness. Give them a cut of that. It wont be a whole lot, but its a start. Jersey sales as well.

[BullBlitz]

Originally Posted by Hagar

LSU makes more money on ticket sales from a single home game than it does in tuition for the entire fall semester. While there are a lot of moving parts to a football team, but more than anyone, the players generate that revenue and should get a cut.

Players should be at college to get an education. They are already getting "a cut" through their scholarships. That's enough.

[Hagar]

Originally Posted by BullBlitz

Players should be at college to get an education. They are already getting "a cut" through their scholarships. That's enough.

LSU and other big time programs bring as much if not more money then and NFL team. NFL players get millions while an LSU player gets a $70k scholorship. Further, since the LSU player could get hurt on any play, they take on the same risk as an NFL player without the pay. They may get a cut but its nowhere near a fair one.

[BullBlitz]

Originally Posted by Hagar

LSU and other big time programs bring as much if not more money then and NFL team. NFL players get millions while an LSU player gets a $70k scholorship. Further, since the LSU player could get hurt on any play, they take on the same risk as an NFL player without the pay. They may get a cut but its nowhere near a fair one.

So what. I'm not in favor of having people taking up space in college classrooms who don't care about their education anyway, and are only interested in football and a shot at the NFL. Most of them prove by their poor accomplishments and sub-par graduation rates that shouldn't be there and are only accepted because of athletics.

If they hurt, too bad. No one is guaranteed anything anyway.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by BullBlitz

So what. I'm not in favor of having people taking up space in college classrooms who don't care about their education anyway, and are only interested in football and a shot at the NFL. Most of them prove by their poor accomplishments and sub-par graduation rates that shouldn't be there and are only accepted because of athletics.

If they hurt, too bad. No one is guaranteed anything anyway.

What are the graduation rates?

Most college players aren't going pro. Are they just dropping out?

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by BullBlitz

So what. I'm not in favor of having people taking up space in college classrooms who don't care about their education anyway, and are only interested in football and a shot at the NFL. Most of them prove by their poor accomplishments and sub-par graduation rates that shouldn't be there and are only accepted because of athletics.

If they hurt, too bad. No one is guaranteed anything anyway.

This is more of an argument for a minor league type system for football similar to what baseball has had for 70-some years and that the NBA is doing with their development league.

But good luck getting the NCAA to give up their multi-GigaBuck cash cow and getting the NFL to give up their freebie "development" league.

Corporations and even smaller businesses support development of prospective employees thru college intern and co-op programs. Why should the billion-dollar enterprise like the NFL get away scott-free??

[BullBlitz]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

This is more of an argument for a minor league type system for football similar to what baseball has had for 70-some years and that the NBA is doing with their development league.

But good luck getting the NCAA to give up their multi-GigaBuck cash cow and getting the NFL to give up their freebie "development" league.

Corporations and even smaller businesses support development of prospective employees thru college intern and co-op programs. Why should the billion-dollar enterprise like the NFL get away scott-free??

Maybe because one of the primary roles of universities is to prepare students for work in corporate America. Maybe because one of the main reasons that students pay tuition to go to college is to get a job in the U.S. Economy.

Universities didn't set up athletic programs to prepare players to go the NFL. They were meant to be extra curricular activities. The fact that a few schools have leveraged one or two sports to be revenue producers doesn't change that.

Not only do I think that college players shouldn't be paid, I would like to see them be required to be making annual progress toward a degree by earning academic credits, and maintaining an adequate minimum GPA of a 2.0 in order to retain playing eligibility.

[80tothezone]

honestly I am just glad that the person who represents the Texans on a national level doesn't sound like a moron. Foster makes intelligent well thought out points whether you agree with him or not and is much better than having a plexico, or a ochosinco (although I do like his antics), or one of those locker room problem guys who can't handle themselves off the field. He is a good representative for the team and seems to have a really good head on his shoulders. On this particular issue I think he has a good point and I would be for some kind of stipend and long term care for injuries sustained while representing that school if they are going to last like his friends arm.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by BullBlitz

Maybe because one of the primary roles of universities is to prepare students for work in corporate America. Maybe because one of the main reasons that students pay tuition to go to college is to get a job in the U.S. Economy.

Universities didn't set up athletic programs to prepare players to go the NFL. They were meant to be extra curricular activities. The fact that a few schools have leveraged one or two sports to be revenue producers doesn't change that.

Not only do I think that college players shouldn't be paid, I would like to see them be required to be making annual progress toward a degree by earning academic credits, and maintaining an adequate minimum GPA of a 2.0 in order to retain playing eligibility.

Again you make a fine argument for an NFL minor league system. As with college baseball student-athletes, those who chose to go the college route, should be expected to maintain their course work and keep up their grades. But those who, to put it bluntly, just aren't college material should have an alternate path available to them. Just like the baseball minor league system. Kids who don't want to do the college thing but show promising baseball skills aren't forced to fake a college career. If lucky enough to be scouted in high school and chosen by some team get to play minor league ball. Why not two paths to the NFL?

And while you say "Universities didn't set up athletic programs to prepare players to go the NFL"
They sure as hell use their success in sending their players to the NFL as selling points to attract the most promising high school athletes which, in turn, tends to keep their well-heeled boosters contributing big bucks to the schools. If you're talking about an MIT or a Rice U. or a Cal Tech, I might agree with you. But that statement holds little water when you're talking about an LSU or an Alabama or a U-T.

[BullBlitz]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

Again you make a fine argument for an NFL minor league system. As with college baseball student-athletes, those who chose to go the college route, should be expected to maintain their course work and keep up their grades. But those who, to put it bluntly, just aren't college material should have an alternate path available to them. Just like the baseball minor league system. Kids who don't want to do the college thing but show promising baseball skills aren't forced to fake a college career. If lucky enough to be scouted in high school and chosen by some team get to play minor league ball. Why not two paths to the NFL?

And while you say "Universities didn't set up athletic programs to prepare players to go the NFL"
They sure as hell use their success in sending their players to the NFL as selling points to attract the most promising high school athletes which, in turn, tends to keep their well-heeled boosters contributing big bucks to the schools. If you're talking about an MIT or a Rice U. or a Cal Tech, I might agree with you. But that statement holds little water when you're talking about an LSU or an Alabama or a U-T.

It would be great to set up a minor league system. Anything to get players out of the university system who aren't interested in academics. Let them go straight to the NFL. But if you play in college, you ought to be required to be making real progress academically.