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Old 03-21-2012   #41
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

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Not tough enough! JMO. What are they gonna do to the players that participated?
I think the player's penalties are next.
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Old 03-21-2012   #42
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Not tough enough! JMO. What are they gonna do to the players that participated?
Nothing will be done to the players because lawyers for players will say the players acted on directions set forth by coaches.

It would be a Scapegoat defense with players crying..."I didn't want to hurt Brett. But I had to. (sniff, sniff)...."
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Old 03-21-2012   #43
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

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This is what I was wondering about...

Honestly, I haven't paid much attention to this bounty gate stuff...

Were they paying players to actively seek to injure other players? Or were they paying for big hits that let to injuries? Or were they just paying for big hits in general?
This is where it gets tricky. As I said many players said their teams had the same thing, it just wasn't called a bounty. If you knocked a guy out with a great hit or not, you got some of the pool. If Gregg Williams knew of injury pool, then fine him but if Payton knew secondhand of a pool but it wasn't with intent to injure, then I think this is B.S.

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Jimmy Johnson ‏ @JimmyJohnson I'm shocked how severe the penalty is vs the Saints and Sean Payton. I don't agree with it...like a 8 million dollar fine vs HC..wrong!
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Old 03-21-2012   #44
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

Player punishments are still being determined. For those, the NFL has to consult with the Player's Association.

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Nothing will be done to the players because lawyers for players will say the players acted on directions set forth by coaches.

It would be a Scapegoat defense with players crying..."I didn't want to hurt Brett. But I had to. (sniff, sniff)...."
But yeah, I expect a lot of this. Though it's a bunch of crap, because the players were doing it for cashy-money.
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Old 03-21-2012   #45
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

Dear Commish The Honorable Roger Goodell,

Can we please have those two 2nd round picks??
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Old 03-21-2012   #46
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

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Nothing will be done to the players because lawyers for players will say the players acted on directions set forth by coaches.

It would be a Scapegoat defense with players crying..."I didn't want to hurt Brett. But I had to. (sniff, sniff)...."
they have already stated that several players will be punished for participating and covering up.
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Old 03-21-2012   #47
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

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This is where it gets tricky. As I said many players said their teams had the same thing, it just wasn't called a bounty. If you knocked a guy out with a great hit or not, you got some of the pool. If Gregg Williams knew of injury pool, then fine him but if Payton knew secondhand of a pool but it wasn't with intent to injure, then I think this is B.S.

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Goodell said himself that Payton lied to him and that Payton knew about it and that it included injury to players...what more do you want?
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Old 03-21-2012   #48
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

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Nothing will be done to the players because lawyers for players will say the players acted on directions set forth by coaches.

It would be a Scapegoat defense with players crying..."I didn't want to hurt Brett. But I had to. (sniff, sniff)...."
I disagree. This "bounty" is akin to doing an extra credit project like when we were in school. You can take up the challenge and go for the extra credit or you can choose not to.

This bounty thing wasn't an "order" it was an "offer". The players could take it or leave it on the table. Their call.
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Old 03-21-2012   #49
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

This is going to be very tricky for the players. Not only could the players fined file grievances, but the players that were TARGETED could also file them as well.

This is ground breaking all the way around.

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Nothing will be done to the players because lawyers for players will say the players acted on directions set forth by coaches.

It would be a Scapegoat defense with players crying..."I didn't want to hurt Brett. But I had to. (sniff, sniff)...."
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Player punishments are still being determined. For those, the NFL has to consult with the Player's Association.



But yeah, I expect a lot of this.
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Old 03-21-2012   #50
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

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Dear Commish The Honorable Roger Goodell,

Can we please have those two 2nd round picks??


Hey, I agree!
...no need to let them go to waste.
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Old 03-21-2012   #51
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

I also heard on NFLN a little earlier that there was at least one instance of a person outside of the Saints organization contributing to the bounty. I think they mentioned someone contributed $5K. We have no idea who that was, but when outside elements get involved, it's a whole new ball game...
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Old 03-21-2012   #52
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

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Goodell said himself that Payton lied to him and that Payton knew about it and that it included injury to players...what more do you want?
See, I never heard that. I thought Williams came clean but Payton knew of it but not of what was directly involved. My issue is how are they drawing the line of who "knew" of trying to injure vs hit hard to make a play. I understand the message when injuring but a large group of ex players already said that their teams just had side bets like this with interceptions, hard hits, etc. I just think this is a very slippery slope. Goodell just shouldn't put it under the umbrella of safety when he has shown he can't think straight on safety....i.e. 18 game season.
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Old 03-21-2012   #53
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

The Saints are now going to pay for the wrong doings by the one and only Gregg Williams.

I've said it many a times, I'm sooo happy we didn't bring him in here
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Old 03-21-2012   #54
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

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I disagree. This "bounty" is akin to doing an extra credit project like when we were in school. You can take up the challenge and go for the extra credit or you can choose not to.

This bounty thing wasn't an "order" it was an "offer". The players could take it or leave it on the table. Their call.
And from what I have read about the bounty, the players put up money for the pool. So if they put money into the pool, they are culpable.
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Old 03-21-2012   #55
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

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I also heard on NFLN a little earlier that there was at least one instance of a person outside of the Saints organization contributing to the bounty. I think they mentioned someone contributed $5K. We have no idea who that was, but when outside elements get involved, it's a whole new ball game...
That was in an email to Sean Payton, someone sent an email to him saying to put him in for $5k. When confronted with the email, Payton admitted he knew about it.
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Old 03-21-2012   #56
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

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ain't the same league as in the 70's. I think it is one thing to have the players have a little pool but when you have management directing your guys to hurt someone, you are totally, totally, totally crossing the line. Your Son plays football...why do you think that this is ok or is it ok that if your son ever played in the NFL you would be ok with team management schemeing to break his leg or put him out of the game with a concussion? Is that what you are saying? You think this game is too soft a game because its not ok to intentionally hurt someone?
I don't know, man...Mario got a $100 million to do what? Knock the ever living crap out of QBs.

It's a fine line. Not condoning a bounty program, but in the big picture, there is not a whole lot of difference between it and paying a dude mad money to achieve the exact same end result.

We are kidding ourselves if we do not recognize the basic fact that we cheer as fans when one of our defensive players slams an opposing QB to the ground. I have been to way too many NFL games and felt the crowd's reaction to those hits.

I think you are reading to much into my words with the stuff about my son. That's too much assumption. I'm just making observations about the bi-polar nature of the NFL these days and how they market the product that they are selling us.

Heck, my son has been trained to cut block in a zone scheme, something still legal in the NFL in spite of the on-going debate regarding it's potential to hurt defenders. It's only a matter of time before the NFL outlaws this technique.

They tell these players that it's "war" and they are "going into battle". You know the locker room rhetoric. Considering opponents "enemies" and other phrases borrowed from war and conflict.

Mixed signals. Now it's be mean! But not too mean. Hit hard! But not too hard.

Again, I was clear in my initial message that I do not condone a bounty program. But, I do see a paradox in the way this league operates.

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I read DB as saying how the league is bi polar on the issue.

Not that he condones either position, but how the league puts out conflicting messages. Hard for the players to know what is ok or not based on that.
My thoughts exactly. I bought DVDs from the NFL just a few years ago. It was not too long ago that the league celebrated big, nasty hits. It's the football we grew up on. Now there is a clear agenda to promote offense, protect offensive players, and it's about selling product to make money.

Look at Amazon.com right now:

NFL: Moment of Impact (2007)

"First you hear the breathing, then you feel the wind coming through your helmet's ear hole. Suddenly you're down, and you're looking through your helmet's ear hole. Pain? That's for tomorrow morning. Right now you've gotta focus - focus on the next play and try not to focus on the next Moment of Impact. Moment of Impact takes you through the rugged world of the NFL like never before. You'll go into the huddle, up to the line, and under the pile with some of the game's roughest customers - men like Ray Lewis, Patrick Kearney, John Lynch and Michael Strahan. You'll meet some of the greatest defensive units of all time and find out which teams have a "tradition by position". But hard-hitting isn't limited to defense - we'll take a look at offensive players who can dish it out as well as they can take it as well as the art of being a "gunner" on special teams. Presented by NFL Films, Moment of Impact combines exclusive player-wires as well as game sound and interviews to provide an intense football experience you just can't get on Sunday afternoons. Buy yours today!"
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Old 03-21-2012   #57
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

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Goodell said himself that Payton lied to him and that Payton knew about it and that it included injury to players...what more do you want?
And this is a big part of why the penalties are so severe. They lied about it, and then failed to follow up on the NFL's initial inquiry into this. The Saints were told to end the program after their Super Bowl season (a directive that not only didn't come with a punishment attached, but wasn't made public). Today we see that the list of targeted QB's included Cam Newton - meaning it continued throughout this past season.
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Old 03-21-2012   #58
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

Sources reporting Jeremy Shockey was the snitch.

Color me shocked ... NOT!
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Old 03-21-2012   #59
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

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Sources reporting Jeremy Shockey was the snitch.

Color me shocked ... NOT!
You're kidding.

This day just keeps getting better.
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Old 03-21-2012   #60
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Default Re: Sean Payton suspended one year.

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I also heard on NFLN a little earlier that there was at least one instance of a person outside of the Saints organization contributing to the bounty. I think they mentioned someone contributed $5K. We have no idea who that was, but when outside elements get involved, it's a whole new ball game...
I'm guessing your talking about this guy -

Quote:
One name stood out among the accused parties in the Saints' bounty scandal. Mike Ornstein.
Quote:
How a two-time felon could surface in the landmark probe has puzzled Saints fans, many of whom wonder how a team that champions a commitment to character in the locker room could foster a relationship with a known criminal, albeit one of the white-collar variety.

If nothing else, it indicates a glaring case of bad judgment by the team's brain trust.
My guess is not only did this component eliminate this instance from the "Everybody's doing it" defense, it contributed to what I characterize as a perfect storm type combination of rule-breaking, lieing and stupidity that cost Payton and Williams so much.

LINK
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