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Old 03-07-2012   #381
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Barron is strictly an in the box safety, which we don't use, and is being phased out league wide because everyone is passing, passing, passing.

Putting Barron deep, is asking to get beat deep.
Agree. Many teams are starting to employ a dual FS type look with one true FS and one CB/FS type guy (think Manning & Quin). Really the only teams still utilizing true SS types are the smashmouth teams like Pitt, Baltimore, and SF.
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Old 03-07-2012   #382
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Barron is strictly an in the box safety, which we don't use, and is being phased out league wide because everyone is passing, passing, passing.

Putting Barron deep, is asking to get beat deep.
Completely agree on Barron. Give me an Earl Thomas/Ed Reed 1st round safety. We're not the Steelers or Ravens. We need dual safeties.(that comes from our defensive mastermind)
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Old 03-07-2012   #383
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

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We're talking about two gifted athletes, so I get going either way. Both were standouts in college and did well at the combine. However, Hill stands out to me as a pretty damn good prospect. He ran a 4.36, his cone drill was like a 6.8 and vertical almost 40". He's an inch taller than Randle, about .2 seconds dater in the 40, jumps 9 inches higher. That's a pretty big advantage if you ask me. Hill's also a team player that excelled at his roll on a team that was based solely on the running game. The dude's almost a can't miss prospect and we have the chance to pick him up at the back end of the 1st round.

To me, Hill's a no brainer.
Please don't take this personally but...

1) In no way was Hill a standout in college, IMO.

2) You list only measureables when describing the ways in which Hill is better than Randle.

3) There is literally no way you could pop in college film of Hill and determine he's a can't miss prospect.

This is combine hype at its finest, IMO.
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Old 03-07-2012   #384
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

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We're talking about two gifted athletes, so I get going either way. Both were standouts in college and did well at the combine. However, Hill stands out to me as a pretty damn good prospect. He ran a 4.36, his cone drill was like a 6.8 and vertical almost 40". He's an inch taller than Randle, about .2 seconds dater in the 40, jumps 9 inches higher. That's a pretty big advantage if you ask me. Hill's also a team player that excelled at his roll on a team that was based solely on the running game. The dude's almost a can't miss prospect and we have the chance to pick him up at the back end of the 1st round.

To me, Hill's a no brainer.
Hill can't/won't block.

Did I hear that somewhere?
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Old 03-07-2012   #385
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by Shaft75 View Post
We're talking about two gifted athletes, so I get going either way. Both were standouts in college and did well at the combine. However, Hill stands out to me as a pretty damn good prospect. He ran a 4.36, his cone drill was like a 6.8 and vertical almost 40". He's an inch taller than Randle, about .2 seconds dater in the 40, jumps 9 inches higher. That's a pretty big advantage if you ask me. Hill's also a team player that excelled at his roll on a team that was based solely on the running game. The dude's almost a can't miss prospect and we have the chance to pick him up at the back end of the 1st round.

To me, Hill's a no brainer.
Well, here is where my draft philosophy differs from most. Pretty much everything you just mentioned there is about the combine. I don't put much stock into workouts in shorts and drills against air. I actually watch a lot of film and highlights for a guy who isn't getting paid, and that's what I judge my evaluations on. In football games, Randle is far and away the better player, period.

Before the combine, EVERYBODY had Randle rated higher. Then suddenly Hill goes from a late 2nd rounder to a 1st rounder? Not for me. I respect Hill and I think he is a hell of an athlete. But this guy is in for some major adjustments to the pro game.

To each their own, but I prefer Randle.
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Old 03-07-2012   #386
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Hill can't/won't block.

Did I hear that somewhere?
Hill's an excellent blocker.
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Old 03-07-2012   #387
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Barron is strictly an in the box safety, which we don't use, and is being phased out league wide because everyone is passing, passing, passing.

Putting Barron deep, is asking to get beat deep.
I don't see Barron as that type of player. I think he could be an every down safety that could be a game changer for years to come. He won't be the guy to man up against slot receivers, but he plays zone well and breaks on the football well when matched up with even or favorable match-ups. He is a solid run defender. 3 time All-SEC player coached by a great defensive backs coach in Nick Saban.

Barron is very good on short throws, much like Quin. When you can limit short throws to smaller gains, you take away alot of what teams do. He has 12 interceptions on his career and has proven to have an eye for the ball, so I don't know where this stigma of a one-trick pony comes from. Sure he isn't going to man up on receivers like an Ed Reed, but he is still a versatile player.

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Agree. Many teams are starting to employ a dual FS type look with one true FS and one CB/FS type guy (think Manning & Quin). Really the only teams still utilizing true SS types are the smashmouth teams like Pitt, Baltimore, and SF.
You mean the #1, #3, and #4 defenses from last year?
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Old 03-07-2012   #388
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

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Hill's an excellent blocker.
Weird, I read about one WR from a run first offense that won't block.

Any idea who that was.
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Old 03-07-2012   #389
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Weird, I read about one WR from a run first offense that won't block.

Any idea who that was.
There are a lot of opinions out there on Hill's blocking. Some people just assume that he can block because he played in an option offense.

Some scouts think he is a great blocker while others think that he should be better than he is because of his size.

I fall somewhere in the middle. I would say he is an above average blocker. He isn't Julio Jones but he gets the job done more often than not.
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Old 03-07-2012   #390
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

I'm starting to warm up to the idea of taking barron in the first. He is very good at what he does.
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I don't see Barron as that type of player. I think he could be an every down safety that could be a game changer for years to come. He won't be the guy to man up against slot receivers, but he plays zone well and breaks on the football well when matched up with even or favorable match-ups. He is a solid run defender. 3 time All-SEC player coached by a great defensive backs coach in Nick Saban.

Barron is very good on short throws, much like Quin. When you can limit short throws to smaller gains, you take away alot of what teams do. He has 12 interceptions on his career and has proven to have an eye for the ball, so I don't know where this stigma of a one-trick pony comes from. Sure he isn't going to man up on receivers like an Ed Reed, but he is still a versatile player.



You mean the #1, #3, and #4 defenses from last year?
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Old 03-07-2012   #391
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Barron is strictly an in the box safety, which we don't use, and is being phased out league wide because everyone is passing, passing, passing.

Putting Barron deep, is asking to get beat deep.
I agree completely. Barron is the wrong type of Safety for the Texans. He's a old school SS that plays the run well in the box but is very limited in pass coverage. The NFL as a whole is slowly getting away from this type of Safety due to the modern pass happy offenses. He's Bernard Pollard vol. 2. Barron would be a terrible pick for the Texans. No reason to take a bench warmer in the 1st round.
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Old 03-07-2012   #392
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by Shaft75 View Post
Hill has greater potential and better measurables than Randle. Big mistake by the Texans to pass him up for a player that is more "ready" for the job. Similar to taking KJ because he was also "ready" for the job.
Completely agree here as well. Hill is more athletic, graceful, smoother, faster, etc... Randle doesn't impress me, he's good but not great. Hill is good with potential to be great.

Last edited by Wolf6151; 03-07-2012 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 03-07-2012   #393
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
With the 26th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft, the Houston Texans select:

Rueben Randle - WR, LSU

The choice came down to Randle or Stephen Hill. Despite Hill's higher potential ceiling I decided to go with Randle. I think he has a higher floor and the ability to be a bigger contributor at the beginning of his career.

Randle has good size and speed. He catches the ball with great hands instead of letting it come into his body. He runs great routes down the field. He may need some work on his underneath routes but I am confident that he has the skills and potential of a first round prospect.
While I am happy with Bah picking for the Texans, I am a little disappointed that y'all (I use y'all loosely) basically rushed through the Texans pick (mostly in the evening hours when a lot of members aren't active) so fast that several participating members including myself didnt even get to weigh in.
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Old 03-07-2012   #394
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

What happened?

First it was Konz then it was going to be a poll. Then I wake up to Rueben Randle as the pick. ????
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Old 03-07-2012   #395
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

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While I am happy with Bah picking for the Texans, I am a little disappointed that y'all (I use y'all loosely) basically rushed through the Texans pick (mostly in the evening hours when a lot of members aren't active) so fast that several participating members including myself didnt even get to weigh in.
As of right now, there are 53 votes in that poll. We currently have 30 team owners. I don't know about you, but I would rather keep any voting limited to those who are participating in the draft itself. We also didn't really have any set way of doing the poll, it was just thrown out there by Kiwi. Probably could be executed much better than what we were doing

Since Bah007 is taking over the Texans picks, I suggest we still do a poll for each Texans' pick just to see what people think about the available players. Just make it public so that we can see how everyone is voting.
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Old 03-07-2012   #396
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

BelliBeer, with the 27th pick in the Texans Talk Members Only Mock Draft, select Nick Perry, DE/OLB, USC, 6-3 271. Considered a top 15 pick he is value added along with elite pass rush skills Pats severely need to address. Possess this drafts best combination of speed 4.64 vertical 38 1/2 & bench 35 not to mention 9.5 sacks his Junior season playing the elephant position which translates forward as a 3-4 OLB. Reminds me more of DeMarcus Ware than Aldon Smith but should be a similar weapon to add into Patriots family.
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Old 03-07-2012   #397
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

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I agree completely. Barron is the wrong type of Safety for the Texans. He's a old school SS that plays the run well in the box but is very limited in pass coverage. The NFL as a whole is slowly getting away from this type of Safety due to the modern pass happy offenses. He's Bernard Pollard vol. 2. Barron would be a terrible pick for the Texans. No reason to take a bench warmer in the 1st round.
I'd like to hear how yall have come to the conclusion that Barron is lacking in pass coverage.

I say that he isn't the type to man-up on slot receivers, but at Alabama he manned up against slot receivers and backs ALL the time. He did it pretty successfully, and the only reason I say he may struggle with it in the NFL is a lack of elite speed and hip flexion. All indications, however, show that he has been able to do it. I have seen nothing in Barron's game that would suggest that he is limited or poor in pass coverage. The kid made plays on the ball playing centerfield, shallow zones, and in man coverage on receivers/backs.

To suggest that he is a dinosaur of a safety would suggest that he doesn't have much value period, much less in the first round. That's not what I am seeing from every single website that evaluates him.

Whoever gets that guy is going to have a very well rounded player for years to come. Looks like he will not be able to work out at his Pro Day today, along with Richardson, due to the injury.
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Old 03-07-2012   #398
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

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With the 26th pick in the 2012 NFL Draft, the Houston Texans select:

Rueben Randle - WR, LSU



I was greatly tempted to take Nick Perry, the top talent left on the board here. But with the overwhelming need for an impact WR I was forced to take one here.

The choice came down to Randle or Stephen Hill. Despite Hill's higher potential ceiling I decided to go with Randle. I think he has a higher floor and the ability to be a bigger contributor at the beginning of his career.

Randle has good size and speed. He catches the ball with great hands instead of letting it come into his body. He runs great routes down the field. He may need some work on his underneath routes but I am confident that he has the skills and potential of a first round prospect.

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! He's going to be the next Craig "Buster" Davis--failed WR from LSU. (Ok, I'm just joking but for the Texans I would've gone with Nick Perry).
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Old 03-07-2012   #399
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

28- Packers-nytexan
29- Ravens- WolverineFan
30- 49ers- Rey
31- Patriots- Beerlover
32- Giants- KMG 365

Guys, please PM or email the next person when you make your pick, and note at the bottom of your post that you have done so. It's easy to edit your post to add it if you forget to do it, but it cuts down on the work SM and I have to do with contacting everyone to remind them to pick. Also, putting something like: "NYTexan and the Packers are on the clock!" at the end of your post helps keep things rolling. Feel free to post the next 5 teams as well.
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Old 03-07-2012   #400
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Default Re: 2012 Texans Talk Mock Draft

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BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! He's going to be the next Craig "Buster" Davis--failed WR from LSU. (Ok, I'm just joking but for the Texans I would've gone with Nick Perry).
I know you're joking, but I'll use this opportunity to say that Randle reminds me a lot of Dwayne Bowe. He's not as physically talented as Bowe, but then Bowe is one of the top WR's in the league right now.

Both were highly rated recruits and both contributed early in their careers at LSU. Similar size, with Bowe being a bit heavier and Randle being taller, and similar measureables.

Bowe had a better statistical career although he benefited from better QB play and a more efficient passing attack while he was at LSU, but Randle was one of the top WR's in the SEC the past 2 years despite the QB problems.
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