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Old 03-02-2012   #101
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

Can teams bring in players for private workouts prior to the draft? I'd like to see the Texans bring in Hill and Streeter for workouts if possible. Both have elite athleticism but not much of a history at the position in college, they'd be risky picks.
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Old 03-02-2012   #102
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

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Originally Posted by cbs1507 View Post
Scout.com apparently hasn't even updated anything since the combine.
& that's the point. I know it's a pre-combine rating. I also know they are not NFL personnel managers or scouts. But Scott Pioli, Ted Thompson, & Floyd Reese aren't returning my calls.

I personally don't have a problem with going against the grain & gambling every now & then.
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Old 03-02-2012   #103
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
Can teams bring in players for private workouts prior to the draft?
Teams can (and will) bring players in for interviews. But, they can't work them out. They can go to private workouts near the player's home. Not sure I understand what the difference is. Insurance issues, perhaps?
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Old 03-02-2012   #104
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

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Teams can (and will) bring players in for interviews. But, they can't work them out. They can go to private workouts near the player's home. Not sure I understand what the difference is. Insurance issues, perhaps?
Teams can workout a defined limited number of players. Believe there is a specific window of time as well.
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Old 03-02-2012   #105
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
Can teams bring in players for private workouts prior to the draft?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
Teams can (and will) bring players in for interviews. But, they can't work them out. They can go to private workouts near the player's home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
Teams can workout a defined limited number of players. Believe there is a specific window of time as well.
Here are the NFL's rules governing draft prospect visits (per profootballtalk.com).

Quote:
As NFL spokesman Randall Liu explained it via e-mail, each team may transport a maximum of 30 draft-eligible players to the team’s home city or another location for a one-day physical examination. These players cannot be timed and tested. Interviews and written tests may be conducted during the visit.


Liu said there is no limit on the number of prospects tested by a team on campus. Clubs also may time draft-eligible players, conduct on-field tests of draft-eligible players, and administer written tests to draft-eligible players in the metropolitan area of the player’s campus or hometown, at college postseason all-star game practice sessions, provided that the player is a participant in the all-star game, at a League-approved workout (Indianapolis Combine, NFL Regional Combines), and at the campus of any college located in the same state as the player’s college, provided that the player is attending a school in NCAA Division I-AA (Football Championship Subdivision), II, or III, an NAIA school, or a junior college, and further provided that the timing and testing only occurs on a school’s Pro Day, but only if the players have received permission from the hosting school’s Pro Liaison.


Players who attend college or reside in a club’s “metropolitan area” can be given a physical examination without counting against the 30-player limit, unless the club provides transportation for the visit. Also, a player who attends college or whose hometown is in a club’s “metropolitan area” may be timed and tested at the club’s facility, as long as the club does not provide transportation.


“Metropolitan area” is defined as contiguous suburbs. There isn’t a 25-mile, 50-mile, or any other type of mileage radius rule. The league office uses the 2011 Rand-McNally Road Atlas to determine the metropolitan area of a city.


So there you have it. Aren’t you glad you asked?
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Old 03-02-2012   #106
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

This is a good read: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-and-workouts/

Quote:
1. In 2011, twelve of the top-14 picks either worked out for or visited their team before the draft. The only players who did not work out for or visit the team they were picked by were Texans defensive end J.J. Watt and Jaguars quarterback Blaine Gabbert. Jags G.M. Gene Smith did personally attend Gabbert’s Insight Bowl game against Iowa, however, and the Texans don’t use pre-draft visits on first-round prospects.
Quote:
2. Some teams don’t use any pre-draft visits on elite prospects. The Texans, Bears, Jaguars, and Packers concern themselves almost strictly with late-round, undrafted types when scheduling visits. For example, the player drafted earliest with whom we know Green Bay formally visited was Markell Carter, the 194th overall pick. The Raiders and Colts, for the most part, also fall into this category.
And either the Houston media is not at all concerned with reporting pre-draft visits and workouts, or the Texans just don’t have many of them. (Our guess is the former.) We counted a league-low six Texans pre-draft visits, and each team is allowed up to 30
Quote:
3. 21 of this year’s 32 first-round picks visited or privately worked out for the team that drafted them. One notable outlier was Seahawks tackle James Carpenter. “We tried staying under the radar with this guy,” Seattle G.M. John Schneider confirmed during Carpenter’s introductory press conference. “I told our group … we were very proud of them that his name never got out.” The Seahawks rated Carpenter as the No. 2 offensive lineman in the entire draft.

But the connection is still strong between first-round picks and pre-draft meetings. Throw out the Texans, Bears, Jaguars, Packers, and Colts for reasons mentioned in point No. 2 here, and there was a 77.8 percent chance that a team’s first-round selection officially visited with or privately worked out for the organization he landed in.
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Old 03-03-2012   #107
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

Big, fast receiver with tons of upside: anybody else besides me think Dorin Dickerson when they see this guy ?
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Old 03-03-2012   #108
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

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Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
Big, fast receiver with tons of upside: anybody else besides me think Dorin Dickerson when they see this guy ?
Dorin Dickerson was a different kind of big. 6'2" - 227lbs

Stephen Hill is 6'4" - 215lbs.

Hill is closer to Calvin Johnson "big".... 6'5" 235lbs or Plaxico Burress (about the same)

Dorin Dickerson is closer to Andre Johnson "big" 6'3" - 226
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Old 03-03-2012   #109
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

I've been able to watch 4 of his games so far (and highlights from a few more).

I really like his potential.
There was only one true drop.
If the QB was a little more accurate, has a little stronger arm (all I ask for is a 40yd pass straight downfield) and can read coverage a little quicker, Hill could have had anywhere from 120-190 more yards in just those 4 games.
In the Kansas game, only one pass was thrown to him.
In the N.C.St. game, only two passes were thrown to him; he caught one for 40 and beat coverage deep on another long pass play but the QB missed badly - Hill had a couple of step on the receiver due to good route running, stemming outside to get the CB to open up his hip before he cut inside toward the post.

The claim that he's a poor route runner is simply untrue.
He can put on different moves on different routes to get open and he understands where the open spot in the zone is.

His blocking is very good already for just a college player.
In the Kansas game for example, he neutralized the CB on three long long run and several medium runs. He performed this task well in all 4 games I've watched so far.

He has great hip flexibility and can make cut after cut. One one play, he made 4 cuts making 4 guys miss; that's pretty amazing for a tall receiver.
And he put on some nice moves/cuts that made guys miss on some other plays as well.
He has a great intitial burst and can change gear really well for such a tall guy.
You expect these things from a Kendall Wright.

I still have 4 more games (from this year) to watch and several more from 2010.

Early impressions tell me that he's a better receiver/player than Jacoby.
He will be a steal in the third round.
He looks to me to be at least a 2nd rounder.
I want to put him in the first round, but I think I'll wait to watch more of his game.

So far I've seen him ran the following routes:
Post
Skinny post
Streak/fly
Stick
Deep comeback
Deep fade
Short fade
Hook
Hitch
Slant
Drag
Deep out
Deep In
Wheel

I haven't seen him run a post-corner or a flag route yet.
But basically, he had run all the other routes and was open or at least had some seperation from the DB a good majority of the time.
(I can see ony about 25-30 passing plays due to TV angle.

If he checks out the same in the rest of the games that I intend to watch; I would have to put him the first round.

So far, I'm more impressed with him than Toon or Jeffery (both of whom I had made a note 3 years ago that it looked like they will play on Sunday. I was scouting Kareem Jackson when I first noticed Jeffery, and Garrett Graham when I noticed Toon. I think I had briefly mentioned them in the scouting reports on KJ and Graham.)
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Old 03-03-2012   #110
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

There will be a whole lotta film study of Hill next 7 weeks.
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Old 03-03-2012   #111
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

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There will be a whole lotta film study of Hill next 7 weeks.
I know, so how about just let me start in this same thread.

Here goes!

Week 1 vs. W. Carolina.
(I did not watch this game).

Hill took a quick swing pass, gave a good stiff arm, and outran the rest of the secondary for an 82 yd TD. It was an easy catch; here it just demonstrate his speed. And the stiff arm helped.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312440059


If any of the links doesn't get you to the right play, I apologize, just look around (it won't take long).

On a simple post route, the off-side safety was supposed (IMO) to get back into coverage deep (while the on side safety played underneath).
It doesn't matter; this just showed Hill's tremendous speed.
And he reached back to plug the late ball very well.

Hill caught 4 balls for a total of 181 yds (2 TDs) in this game.
The official game book did not show any other pass attempt toward him.
(There were another receiver Jones, who dropped at least 2 passes at quick scan.)

http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/driveSummar...00025520110901
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Old 03-03-2012   #112
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

Week 2 vs. Middle Tennessee
(I did not watch this game either)

The Yellow jackets attempted only 10 passes (8 by the starter Washington).
Hill caught 3 for 126 yards (including the 71 yd TD pass.)

On the 71yd TD pass, Hill lined up as the widest receiver in a tight formation and ran a simple post route.

There was nothing to it as the safeties failed.
Note that Hill did have to reach back to grab the ball.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312532393


On the following 43yd catch, Hill lined up outside the hashmarks.
He ran a seam route and did a good job stemming to the inside of the hashmarks before swerving back outside the hashmarks (look carefully at the beginning of the route.)
This gave him the seperation needed to catch the ball.
He also did a good job concentrating on the ball even with the contact.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312532393


(3rd and 9) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S. (Ikner, Arness)

(2nd and 15) Washington, T. pass incomplete to Hill, S. (Edwards, T.L.).

The two plays above showed incompletions, but did not denote any dropped pass.
I don't know how he ran the routes, since I didn't watch the game.

Both guys with names in parentheses are CBs, so it's either a pass defended or the DB was close enough to the play to get credit.
Whether the passes were incompleted due to no separation or a good play by the DB or a poor throw by the QB or whatever, we don't know.
But they weren't dropped passes.

The descriptions of the plays were taken from the official ncaa game book.
I use them (similarly as I use the nfl.com gamebook) to help while breaking down game tapes. For the most part, they are pretty consistent... but I can't be held against some sloppy work (yes, there were and always will be - normal human error, I'm not the exception.)
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Old 03-03-2012   #113
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

Week 3 vs. Kansas
(I did watch this game; there wasn't much passing, but we can learn a lot about Hill's blocking skills and how he went hard at his routes - unlike Meachem for the Saints.)

The Yellow Jackets running game was in high gear as they ran 50 times for 604 yards.
Washington (the QB) attempted only 7 passes.

Hill caught a short one for 4 yards without much chance to advance the ball.

He did a good job blocking and ran his routes hard even when the ball went the opposite way.

He took out the CB completely on 3 long running plays toward his side, and he did a pretty good job on several intermediate runs 15-25 yards.
No, he didn't win every blocking assignment, but not for lack of trying.

Overall, the Yellow Jackets' receivers worked hard at their blocking (it's very likely a requirement for them to stay on the field.)
Hill probably did the best job out there on this day (among the receivers on blocking assignments.)
I only use the term "probably" as not to slight the effort of the other guys, but there was no denying Hill's dominance on his defender.

And he was eager to congratulate his teammates on their success (including TDs).
I like his attitude.

What I can appreciate is when a guy still runs his routes hard even when he knows the ball isn't coming his way.
It's good work habit, and it makes the CB/safety work hard just the same.
It keeps them on their heels, and it helps the running game tremendously.
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Old 03-03-2012   #114
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

The rep I've read is DBs just don't pay much attention to him & his yardage is because he is wide open on a small number of plays. That will not happen often in NFL. I don't mean to sound as if I am against Hill, I just did not watch him and he sounds risky.
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Old 03-03-2012   #115
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
The rep I've read is DBs just don't pay much attention to him & his yardage is because he is wide open on a small number of plays. That will not happen often in NFL. I don't mean to sound as if I am against Hill, I just did not watch him and he sounds risky.
That's not the case, as it will become a little more clear as I continue with the film study.

There are times that the D sent the CB in to defend the triple option and the safety bombed.

To say that DB doesn't pay attention to Hill is just nonsense.

How do you purposedly allow a receiver with deep speed to run past you.
Hell, if he drops 3 passes (which wasn't the case to begin with) and catches one, it would still be a long TD.

If the number of times that he gets open due to a mishap in a D that makes me all riled up about Hill, I would be a fool.

...

For some reason, it's hard for me to distinguish between badboy and beerlover at times, LOL - you guys are working so much in tune (martin is a bit different; probably because he diverts quite a bit of attention to small school prospects).

But at any rate, one of you mentioned that as scouts, one can find value in a case like this... where the QB is not all that good, and the system doesn't showcase the true talent of a receiver (even if it gives him wide-open chance at times).
We can say the same about the Stanford TE as many of his catches were also wide-open due to the scheme/mishap by the D.

I scratch out most of those plays.
But I do note how they run their route on those plays.
Like I said, if you don't pay attention to the details (their body's movement - whether they telegraph the play as a run rather than a pass; all sort of things) then you're more likely to miss out on a prospect (off-the-field problem is a different thing.)
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Old 03-03-2012   #116
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

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...film study...
Great stuff & always appreciated, 76.

Grrr .... MSR.

Getting excited about this guy.
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Old 03-03-2012   #117
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

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Great stuff & always appreciated, 76.

Grrr .... MSR.

Getting excited about this guy.
Got him

I really appreciate all of the info 76 provides. It must be alot of time/work.
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Old 03-03-2012   #118
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

I am going to let 76 Texans do the film work, but there is a lot about Stephen Hill that smells Texans.

1) They like guys with a good overall athletic profile (see Texans' chick's work)
2) Good character..all indication are that he has it, but we never really know
3) REally don't need long history of production.

Biggest negative

Don't seem to draft the "darlings" or "hot" names.
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Old 03-03-2012   #119
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

I like the fact that in recent years Georgia Tech has produced some big time WR's. Something tells me it's not just by chance.
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Old 03-03-2012   #120
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Default Re: Stephen Hill

Thanks guys, the film study is exclusively for Texanstalk.
It has always been the appreciation that kept me going at it.
And it's only for Texans fans!

Yeah, it takes up a lot of time, but I'm used to going to sleep with headphones over my ears.

I'm having a few beers so I don't know if I can continue posting the next few game studies. (They are ready, just copy and paste; but I always change up things a bit as I post them.)

I need a good break, but then again, I might come back real soon.
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