Stephen Hill

[mussop]

Originally Posted by beerlover

It's just plain silliness to compare Hill with Jones.

Apparently you're the only one having a problem seeing the similarities. You need to look past the combine numbers. Game tape should be 98% of the evaluation. You move a guy up to far because of measurables you are asking for failure. That is the kind of approach A Davis used to take to the draft and people laughed at him. Another example, mike mamula, remember him.

Now is not the time to take these kind of risk.

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by mussop

Apparently you're the only one having a problem seeing the similarities. You need to look past the combine numbers. Game tape should be 98% of the evaluation. You move a guy up to far because of measurables you are asking for failure. That is the kind of approach A Davis used to take to the draft and people laughed at him. Another example, mike mamula, remember him.

Now is not the time to take these kind of risk.

seriously, if there was any similarity do you think I would compare the two or be the least bit intrigued?

Jacoby ran a 4.5 in his forty, has super small hands, is shorter, less 5 inches in his vertical jump & played for a small school against lesser competition. There is your comparison.

[The1ApplePie]

Originally Posted by mussop

Apparently you're the only one having a problem seeing the similarities. You need to look past the combine numbers. Game tape should be 98% of the evaluation. You move a guy up to far because of measurables you are asking for failure. That is the kind of approach A Davis used to take to the draft and people laughed at him. Another example, mike mamula, remember him.

Now is not the time to take these kind of risk.

Mario Williams and JPP have both been workout warriors that panned out great in recent drafts. Antonio Cromartie has done well too.

Didn't Michael Crabtree and Aaron Curry look amazing on tape?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by NastyNate

TK, he can't consistently make the catch. PASS! You're giving up Jacoby for a rookie Jacoby 2.0. Stop it already, he hasn't been on draft boards for a reason!

Stop what? I didn't say we should draft him. I'm saying I haven't seen enough to even think anyone should take him in the first round.

I saw him at the combine, his size (height & weight) & speed made me want to know more.

[beerlover]

The only thing I can think of which could cause Stephen Hill to drop so many passes (trust fellow posters on this) he could be afraid of contact? This is obviously not tested @ the combine. If he is afraid of contact that's a whole other thing. When isolated on the ball he shows excellent concentration, focus & ability to use his hands away from his body. I'm hoping he could get stronger in mini-fall camps with proper diet & nutrition along with workout regiment. Similar body build, speed comparable to Randy Moss.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

I've seen more of him than anyone here, and way more than the 4 Evan Silva watched. Granted, I don't get paid to evaluate NFL talent, but I can tell you as a fan of the team that Hill has played on, he has broken my heart with blatant drops in the wide open field more times than I can count.

Is it a technique issue? Concentration? Is it something a coach can help him with?

Does anyone know what his vertical & broad jump were?

[TimeKiller]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Is it a technique issue? Concentration? Is it something a coach can help him with?

Does anyone know what his vertical & broad jump were?

Vert 39.5"
Broad 11'1''

Anyone think maybe playing for a triple option team stunted his development?

I wouldn't be mad.

[WolverineFan]

Originally Posted by The1ApplePie

Mario Williams and JPP have both been workout warriors that panned out great in recent drafts. Antonio Cromartie has done well too.

Didn't Michael Crabtree and Aaron Curry look amazing on tape?

Mario and JPP both were pretty good in college though. You see guys with great film bust out all the time. I've never seen a guy with bad film become a star.

This is what I hate about the combine. Guys like Heyward-Bey, Hill, etc., etc. all get overrated because of their measureables. Being a good athlete doesn't make you a good football player.

[NastyNate]

Originally Posted by WolverineFan

Ironic that most of the guys here have been bashing Jacoby Jones for years and they want to take a similar project with our 1st round pick. Hill was a mid round prospect before the combine (and that's taking potential into account beforehand). Anyone who was familiar with him before this weekend knew he was going to run fast.

We don't need another project WR right now. Grab a solid guy in the 1st or 2nd because that's what we need. We don't need 2 Jacoby Jones' running around out there.

If WR is as big a need as many on this board say it is, then why would you waste your top pick on a project player who will not contribute early in his career.

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

This, this, this.

As a Georgia Tech fan I have seen a bunch of Hill. He has no problem getting downfield and has the size you'd love. But, he simply cannot catch the ball.

He's the quintessential workout warrior who will be overdrafted because of his combine numbers and will bust in the NFL.

I would not touch him with a 10-foot pole.

Originally Posted by WolverineFan

Why is that? They are/were both projects. That was the comparison.

We don't need to waste another 1st round pick on a project player at a position of need (Okoye). If WR is truly a need then pass on the 'sexier' prospect and take the solid guy who can contribute to the team. Guys like Floyd, Sanu, McNutt, etc. can contribute now.

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

I've seen more of him than anyone here, and way more than the 4 Evan Silva watched. Granted, I don't get paid to evaluate NFL talent, but I can tell you as a fan of the team that Hill has played on, he has broken my heart with blatant drops in the wide open field more times than I can count.

Thank you x 10! People get so caught up with combine numbers and don't look at the body of work a receiver puts together. BeerLover, we share the same love (of beer obviously) but not for Stephen Hill. I'd probably cry into my beer if we drafted him. If we got him in the 7th I'd still be sad.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by WolverineFan

Mario and JPP both were pretty good in college though. You see guys with great film bust out all the time. I've never seen a guy with bad film become a star.

This is what I hate about the combine. Guys like Heyward-Bey, Hill, etc., etc. all get overrated because of their measureables. Being a good athlete doesn't make you a good football player.

Heyward-Bey didn't get overrated..... he got Al Davis'd..... I think that's a different case all together.

[steelbtexan]

I will go with NtZ here. The good thing is Hill will probably push Randle(my guy) or K.Wright down to the Texans.

As far as Hill goes I can see BL side of this. He's an amazing athlete. Who played on an option team and hasn't learned how to run the route tree. (Understandably) Also it's not like Hill was playing with Luck or Griffin as his QB.

If the Texans already had a competent WR corps then I would be all for taking Hill in the 1st. Since they dont give me a more pro ready guy like Randle in the 1st and a guy like Joe Adams/Danny Coale in the 4th.

[The1ApplePie]

Originally Posted by WolverineFan

Mario and JPP both were pretty good in college though. You see guys with great film bust out all the time. I've never seen a guy with bad film become a star.

This is what I hate about the combine. Guys like Heyward-Bey, Hill, etc., etc. all get overrated because of their measureables. Being a good athlete doesn't make you a good football player.

Both were seen in the college game as inferior to their linemates (Lawson and Selvie respectively). They got by on physical gifts rather than technique. Both became beasts with proper coaching though.

[bah007]

The best thing about Hill is that someone will roll the dice and grab him before our pick, thus pushing a better player down to us.

The guy is an elite athlete who will get nasty in the running game. I love that about him.

But let's tap the brakes here a bit. The guy has tons of negatives:

-He ran about three different routes in his entire college career. The learning curve is going to be tremendous for him.

-From what I've seen, he has the ability to make the great catch but he is not a natural catcher. Too many wide open drops. I wouldn't say he fights the ball but he prefers to use his body instead of his hands.

-The reason his yards per catch is so high is because defenders are getting sucked up by the option game and he just uses his long speed to run past them. He is wide open because of the scheme, not because of his ability as a receiver.

There are reasons to be excited about him as a prospect. But he is a big time project. I don't 100% agree with the Jacoby Jones comparisons but he is way way closer to that than he is to the Calvin Johnsons of the league. I can easily think of about ten guys I would rather have, and most of them could be had later in the draft.

[SF49erFaithful]

Also consider he had the worst QB in the ACC throwing to him.

I doubt he makes it to 30, but I hope the Niners pick him up. Great athlete, enormous potential. It worked out for us when we drafted Vernon Davis, the ultimate work-out warrior.

Doubt he makes it to 30 though, especially with the emergence of former teammate D. Thomas.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Is it a technique issue? Concentration? Is it something a coach can help him with?

That's not something I will pretend to be qualified to speculate on.

I will say that from my impression, not that I have gone back and rewatched games or anything, that most of his drops came in the open field. The nature of Tech's offense will produce play action passes in which the WR will be wide open, uncovered more often than not. One might speculate too wide open (though they were the same passes Thomas was catching).

This is just my recollection, so it could be biased, skewed, or downright wrong. But, that's what I've taken away from Hill's career at Tech.

[BigBull17]

Originally Posted by NastyNate

TK, he can't consistently make the catch. PASS! You're giving up Jacoby for a rookie Jacoby 2.0. Stop it already, he hasn't been on draft boards for a reason!

Dear God no! Outside of Blackmon and Flloyd I would either address another position or trade down.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by bah007

The best thing about Hill is that someone will roll the dice and grab him before our pick, thus pushing a better player down to us.

The guy is an elite athlete who will get nasty in the running game. I love that about him.

But let's tap the brakes here a bit. The guy has tons of negatives:

-He ran about three different routes in his entire college career. The learning curve is going to be tremendous for him.

-From what I've seen, he has the ability to make the great catch but he is not a natural catcher. Too many wide open drops. I wouldn't say he fights the ball but he prefers to use his body instead of his hands.

-The reason his yards per catch is so high is because defenders are getting sucked up by the option game and he just uses his long speed to run past them. He is wide open because of the scheme, not because of his ability as a receiver.

There are reasons to be excited about him as a prospect. But he is a big time project. I don't 100% agree with the Jacoby Jones comparisons but he is way way closer to that than he is to the Calvin Johnsons of the league. I can easily think of about ten guys I would rather have, and most of them could be had later in the draft.

There are a lot of truth to this assesments (as well as from a couple others).

However, I see a lot of potential and good things in Hill.

I was able to watch 2 of his games (for now) and highlights from 3 other games (with some studying of the game books).

There are a lot to like about this kid.
There was one dropped ball in those 5 games.
I hope to have a report of some sort on Hill tomorrow night.

[The Cush]

Not knowing anything about this guy and after reading this thread I saw a guy over at BRB putting a scouting report on him. They evaluated him for his game against UNC and had this to say..

Hill has great measurables. Tall, Lanky, Fast. However he lacks some fundamental skills as a receiver. Football players aren't just athletes, they require skills and techniques that allow them to play the game of football as a receiver. In this game tape, I just don't see it. Poor route running, poor catching technique. I see athlete, fast and catches long balls but I don't see receiver on plays like example one and four. I see dropped balls and to be honest, flag football routes. As a consolation though, Hill is a pretty good blocker, the system and his size has allowed him to become an adequate blocker, something valued by our system. I would like to break down more film on Hill but from what I see, Hill's bad habit (body catches) actually came to get him at the end and as a player he really needs to work on that. Hill can still show his progress at his pro day. I want to see him gain at least 5 lbs of muscle but still maintain his elite speed. That will show me that he is dedicated to improving his size but remains in shape. Also I want to see him look more like a receiver. I want him to catch with his hands and run routes in 90 and 45 degree angles. Stephen Hill has a lot more to prove before he is worth the 26th overall pick in my opinion.

http://www.battleredblog.com/2012/2/...9/stephen-hill

It was just one game, but they came away with the same negative impressions many people on here are saying.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by The Cush

http://www.battleredblog.com/2012/2/...9/stephen-hill

Why would anyone want Hill to gain weight? His size is perfect for a receiver. At least he has nothing to gain by picking up weight.... He's a receiver, not a RB or a LB.

[beerlover]

I could have heard wrong but thought McClain stated on 610 that Texans like Hill both his size, speed & coach-ability but after combine won't be there in 2nd & could be targeted in first