Trade Down w/out Mario

[beerlover]

#26 Texans/Patriots (Trade with New England swapping 1st & 2nd picks)
Fletcher Cox, DE, Mississippi State, 6-4 295
NE should make this offer if Fletcher is still on the board, would you do it if you are the Texans?
#30 New England/Texans (Acquired from New England)
Rueben Randle, WR, LSU, 6-4 208
Has the tools to develop along side Andre Johnson mentoring.
#48 New England/Texans (Acquired from New England via)
Jonathan Massaquoi, OLB, Troy, 6-3 250
New name to throw in mix, Wade had some luck with another guy from Troy. Massaquuoi projects to a 3-4 OLB pass rusher keeping a nice rotation intact.
#58 Texans/New England (Acquired from Texans in 1st rd. pick swap)
Harrison Smith, SS, Notre Dame, 6-2 212
New England would love to address safety need, should still be on board here.
#89 Texans
TY Hilton, WR/KR, Florida International, 5-10 184
Primary duties would be returner, could surprise as 3/4 WR who can stretch the field.

[thunderkyss]

I love Rueben Randle..... he's a Playah...

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I love Rueben Randle..... he's a Playah...

I believe he was the nations #1 High School prospect among WR class. LSU hasn't exactly ran an NFL style offense much less commitment to throw entire route tree so skill set would require more development here. With plus scheme/coaching & Andre taking leadership role, Randle's natural talent, speed & size should blossom into a solid NFL #2.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I love Rueben Randle..... he's a Playah...

Yep

Randle has the size/speed/quickness to be as good as any WR in this draft. I really hope he falls to 26 and learns under AJ for a few yrs.

[beerlover]

Honestly I just noticed this from Rang, considered one of the elite mock draft authorities (good reference anyway) http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/n...tscout-RobRang

He has New England moving up with New Orleans instead of Houston for Fletcher Cox, but Texans take Randle anyway

26. Houston Texans
Rueben Randle, WR, LSU: The Texans obviously boast one of the league's preeminent receivers in Andre Johnson, but his inability to remain healthy and Houston's relative inconsistent depth behind him make wide receiver an area of concern. Randle has a similar size/speed combination as Johnson, which should allow the Texans to attack both sides of the field vertically, opening up their lethal running game that much more.
27. New England Patriots (from New Orleans)
Fletcher Cox, DT, Mississippi State: Cox will appeal to Bill Belichick for various reasons, not the least of which is the fact that the 6-4, 295-pound junior is just scratching the surface of his potential. And make no mistake, the potential is there for Cox to be a star. The Bulldog defensive tackle earned the SEC Defensive Lineman of the Week four times this season and is highly regarded by scouts because of his size, strength and ability to play inside or out in multiple fronts. That type of versatility will also certainly intrigue Belichick.

[Rey]

I'd be very happy with Randle...

[beerlover]

In principle Texans target known WR need late first despite (projected loss of Mario Williams) which would be huge, hence there has to be some fascination with replacing him early. By trading down just a few picks they could still land their guy, while moving up in 2nd to get one of the premier pass rushing OLB's. I went with Massaquoi because he reminds me a little of Aldon Smith who Wade really liked last year but was taken by the San Francisco 49'ers 7th overall, all he did was led all rookies in sacks with 14. I'm not saying Massaquoi is Smith, he is undersized but has the frame to add strength along with raw speed to develop behind Brooks & Barwin making himself a premier outside pass rushing monster in Wade Phillips 3-4.

Cox is a stud, someone Patriots will be desperate to acquire, having struggled since Willie McGinest retired & Richard Seymour left via free agency. New England gets to the dance every other year but fails to finish the deal because they lack that stud 5-tech DE hence New England is also a landing spot for Mario Williams but if Mario doesn't want to kick inside for some of these teams he may stay in Houston to play OLB.

[beerlover]

Used Texans own third round pick on TY Hilton because adding a premier returner is critically lacking on special teams which breeds a negative attitude in big game situations. If he can develop his route running & be used to stretch the field with his speed that would be a bonus.

[TimeKiller]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmaZV...eature=related

Lacks pass rush repetoire but first step/quickness puts him in position to get selected. Gets blocked too easily for me, especially against the run. I wouldn't be upset with the pick, just think there is too much "potential" and not enough meat on the bones, like an OLB version of Jacoby Jones. A lot of developing to do.

Originally Posted by profootballweekly.com

Upside:
• Can bend the edge and win with quickness
• Tracks down backs from behind
• Flashes violence in his hands
• Good closing burst
• Showed legit pass-rush skill as a junior

Downside:
• Not tough or physical
• Cannot set the edge
• Average instincts
• Disinterested vs. run
• Overpowered by TEs
• Weight ballooned as a junior
• Can be difficult to coach, manage

The Way We See It:
Immature, finesse rusher who regressed as a junior after stacking on 20 pounds and negating his elite speed. Soft football temperament could relegate him to a pass-rush-specialist role. Coachability concerns could diminish his value.

I think he may be overrated as a 2nd round pick but his athleticism would still hold value in the 3rd.

[beerlover]

Originally Posted by TimeKiller

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmaZV...eature=related

Lacks pass rush repetoire but first step/quickness puts him in position to get selected. Gets blocked too easily for me, especially against the run. I wouldn't be upset with the pick, just think there is too much "potential" and not enough meat on the bones, like an OLB version of Jacoby Jones. A lot of developing to do. I think he may be overrated as a 2nd round pick but his athleticism would still hold value in the 3rd.

Valid points. Don't have the analysis in front of me, but when doing this I paid close attention to pass rushing efficiency of last years class, led by Aldon Smith & Von Miller (Brooks Reed mentioned as well) then using those projections compared to rookies year actual production statistics. According to numbers they tracked very accurately, the best most prolific pass rushers continued @ the next level. This year Massaquoi is in that elite class, at least projection wise. In talent evaluation for Texans they lack one thing in pass rushing department (including w/Mario) that's off the edge speed. Jonathan Massaquoi is an above average speed rushing prospect, bigger with more upside than say last years Dontay Moch who went top of the 3rd. It's very possible if Jonathan returned for his senior year @ Troy would be an almost lock to be a 2013 first round pick (less risk of injury which is why a lot of the talented underclassman decide to come out early). With quality starting OLB's Barwin & Reed only Bryan Baman behind them addressing depth with starter potential @ key 3-4 defensive position essential. It may seem like a luxury pick, but in reality the Texans would just be re-tooling.

[TimeKiller]

Originally Posted by beerlover

Valid points. Don't have the analysis in front of me, but when doing this I paid close attention to pass rushing efficiency of last years class, led by Aldon Smith & Von Miller (Brooks Reed mentioned as well) then using those projections compared to rookies year actual production statistics. According to numbers they tracked very accurately, the best most prolific pass rushers continued @ the next level. This year Massaquoi is in that elite class, at least projection wise. In talent evaluation for Texans they lack one thing in pass rushing department (including w/Mario) that's off the edge speed. Jonathan Massaquoi is an above average speed rushing prospect, bigger with more upside than say last years Dontay Moch who went top of the 3rd. It's very possible if Jonathan returned for his senior year @ Troy would be an almost lock to be a 2013 first round pick (less risk of injury which is why a lot of the talented underclassman decide to come out early). With quality starting OLB's Barwin & Reed only Bryan Baman behind them addressing depth with starter potential @ key 3-4 defensive position essential. It may seem like a luxury pick, but in reality the Texans would just be re-tooling.

Like I said, I wouldn't be upset with it, I'm certainly on board with taking a speed rushing 4/3 college DE to stand up and play the edge in the 2nd round. He clearly plays a rush LB role anyway. I do like his speed around the corner but he needs a lot of training especially against the run. Barwin and Reed both play physical run defense as well as rushing the edge.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by beerlover

Valid points. Don't have the analysis in front of me, but when doing this I paid close attention to pass rushing efficiency of last years class, led by Aldon Smith & Von Miller (Brooks Reed mentioned as well) then using those projections compared to rookies year actual production statistics. According to numbers they tracked very accurately, the best most prolific pass rushers continued @ the next level. This year Massaquoi is in that elite class, at least projection wise. In talent evaluation for Texans they lack one thing in pass rushing department (including w/Mario) that's off the edge speed. Jonathan Massaquoi is an above average speed rushing prospect, bigger with more upside than say last years Dontay Moch who went top of the 3rd. It's very possible if Jonathan returned for his senior year @ Troy would be an almost lock to be a 2013 first round pick (less risk of injury which is why a lot of the talented underclassman decide to come out early). With quality starting OLB's Barwin & Reed only Bryan Baman behind them addressing depth with starter potential @ key 3-4 defensive position essential. It may seem like a luxury pick, but in reality the Texans would just be re-tooling.

Massaquoi is a sleeper pick of mine. Is he the Browns WR brother?

Barwin does a pretty good job as an edge rusher using speed in addition to power. I bet Barwin ends up with better splits/40 time at the combine than Massaquoi ends up with. 3rd rd seems about right for Massaquoi. IMHO

[NastyNate]

Originally Posted by beerlover

#26 Texans/Patriots (Trade with New England swapping 1st & 2nd picks)
Fletcher Cox, DE, Mississippi State, 6-4 295
NE should make this offer if Fletcher is still on the board, would you do it if you are the Texans?
#30 New England/Texans (Acquired from New England)
Rueben Randle, WR, LSU, 6-4 208
Has the tools to develop along side Andre Johnson mentoring.
#48 New England/Texans (Acquired from New England via)
Jonathan Massaquoi, OLB, Troy, 6-3 250
New name to throw in mix, Wade had some luck with another guy from Troy. Massaquuoi projects to a 3-4 OLB pass rusher keeping a nice rotation intact.
#58 Texans/New England (Acquired from Texans in 1st rd. pick swap)
Harrison Smith, SS, Notre Dame, 6-2 212
New England would love to address safety need, should still be on board here.
#89 Texans
TY Hilton, WR/KR, Florida International, 5-10 184
Primary duties would be returner, could surprise as 3/4 WR who can stretch the field.

Massaquoi? Watchin him try to tackle against the run is painful. I pass, even in the 3rd. T.Y. Hilton I like, he'd be a nice slot receiver and returner to boot. His ball security worries me though at the pro level. And Randle would be just fine with me. I think the WR class is so deep that we could go after LB talent in the first for potential Ryans replacement and address WR in the 2nd rd and later.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by beerlover

In principle Texans target known WR need late first despite (projected loss of Mario Williams) which would be huge, hence there has to be some fascination with replacing him early. By trading down just a few picks they could still land their guy, while moving up in 2nd to get one of the premier pass rushing OLB's. I went with Massaquoi because he reminds me a little of Aldon Smith who Wade really liked last year but was taken by the San Francisco 49'ers 7th overall, all he did was led all rookies in sacks with 14. I'm not saying Massaquoi is Smith, he is undersized but has the frame to add strength along with raw speed to develop behind Brooks & Barwin making himself a premier outside pass rushing monster in Wade Phillips 3-4.

Cox is a stud, someone Patriots will be desperate to acquire, having struggled since Willie McGinest retired & Richard Seymour left via free agency. New England gets to the dance every other year but fails to finish the deal because they lack that stud 5-tech DE hence New England is also a landing spot for Mario Williams but if Mario doesn't want to kick inside for some of these teams he may stay in Houston to play OLB.

If I'm not mistaken, NE is playing more 4-3 these days so if their desire is to go to back to more 4-3 then I'd think they'd be looking for a LB...

[TimeKiller]

Originally Posted by Rey

If I'm not mistaken, NE is playing more 4-3 these days so if their desire is to go to back to more 4-3 then I'd think they'd be looking for a LB...

Or a top flight DB with that secondary featuring Antwaan Molden!