Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-21-2012   #1
IDEXAN
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Challis, ID
Age: 49
Posts: 7,739
Rep Power: 46599 IDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

So how do the Texans clear cap space you ask? Well there's a couple of ways. One is restructuring contracts and another is to cut players who aren't performing to their high cap numbers.
****
The Texans have seven other players with cap hits over $5 million this year according to the Spotrac site: Andre Johnson, Matt Schaub, Antonio Smith, DeMeco Ryans, Owen Daniels and Danieal Manning.
****
Daniels seems like an obvious candidate for restructure with a $6.5 million base this year and three years remaining on his deal.

Continue reading on Examiner.com Texans must clear cap space in coming weeks - Houston Houston Texans | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/houston-texa...#ixzz1n1Vn8wbN
*****************************
Accelerating compensation disbursement to get benefits of bonus-proration treatment to take advantage of amortization for cap space would seem to have a big drawback from the players' perspective which is a much bigger tax liability. Of course maybe most of the players would probably not mind since they get their hands on the money sooner, though the few smart money managers among them might balk ?
IDEXAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012   #2
Playoffs 
Subscribed Contributor
 
Playoffs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 15,298
Rep Power: 306681 Playoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respectedPlayoffs is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

I say we cut Schaub and Andre ... then on to da Supah Bowl!
Playoffs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012   #3
HOU-TEX 
Ah, Football!
 
HOU-TEX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: P-land
Age: 43
Posts: 15,595
Rep Power: 124742 HOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedHOU-TEX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

I'm kinda surprised we haven't begun things like this yet.
__________________
Kubiak: "They’re battling their tail off." Translation: They suck.
OB: "They played hard with great effort." Translation: They suck.
HOU-TEX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012   #4
ckhouston
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Lost in Azeroth
Age: 46
Posts: 1,544
Rep Power: 0 ckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Playoffs View Post
I say we cut Schaub and Andre ... then on to da Supah Bowl!
Cutting a player doesn't release you from the cap hit, depending on how the contract is structured. Now, if we traded Schaub, then we are off the hook. Andre will retire a Texan.
ckhouston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012   #5
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
 
Maddict5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,477
Rep Power: 5500 Maddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respectedMaddict5 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

Quote:
Of course maybe most of the players would probably not mind since they get their hands on the money sooner, though the few smart money managers among them might balk ?
why? they'll make the same amount annually only they get most of it in one sum in march instead of 1/16th each wk sept-december?

also am i missing something or does is seem pretty easy to resign nearly everyone after reading that? i presume the $3m cap space is what we have currently (ie 2011 salary cap figures)?

if that is the case it should not be that difficult to resign everybody?

Current cap space-> 3m
Restructure JJoe, Demeco & OD like aj suggests-> at least $10m
Cut JJ, Leinart-> most of 7m
Mario, Myers, other FA's etc 2011 cap figure coming off the books->at least 15m

thats at least 35m (even with conservative estimates of potential cap savings without mentioning any increase to the 2012 cap or extensions to guys like schaub & duane that would reduce their cap hits) which should be plenty to lock down all our key guys

what am i missing?
Maddict5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012   #6
Section516 
Warrior
 
Section516's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,321
Rep Power: 11151 Section516 is a quality contributor and well respectedSection516 is a quality contributor and well respectedSection516 is a quality contributor and well respectedSection516 is a quality contributor and well respectedSection516 is a quality contributor and well respectedSection516 is a quality contributor and well respectedSection516 is a quality contributor and well respectedSection516 is a quality contributor and well respectedSection516 is a quality contributor and well respectedSection516 is a quality contributor and well respectedSection516 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

Jones' cap hit is $4.94 million, most of which would come off the Texans cap if Jones was released. The Texans would have to absorb a small dead money hit ($300k) according to Spotrac so there's another potential $4.6 million off the cap by cutting Jones.

Continue reading on Examiner.com Texans must clear cap space in coming weeks - Houston Houston Texans | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/houston-texa...#ixzz1n1o7sKel


From above link..

Good as gone, maybe resigned for cheaper or replaced..
__________________
Get there by kickoff.
Section516 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012   #7
2slik4u
All Pro
 
2slik4u's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: round rock
Section: My Couch
Age: 31
Posts: 972
Rep Power: 11791 2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected2slik4u is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Section516 View Post
Jones' cap hit is $4.94 million, most of which would come off the Texans cap if Jones was released. The Texans would have to absorb a small dead money hit ($300k) according to Spotrac so there's another potential $4.6 million off the cap by cutting Jones.

Continue reading on Examiner.com Texans must clear cap space in coming weeks - Houston Houston Texans | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/houston-texa...#ixzz1n1o7sKel


From above link..

Good as gone, maybe resigned for cheaper or replaced..
This should be a no brainer. I want him gone. Im sure he can have a great career in the UFL/CFL.
__________________
Ill be where I'm at.
2slik4u is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 02-21-2012   #8
DX-TEX
Hall of Fame
 
DX-TEX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,570
Rep Power: 128402 DX-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedDX-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedDX-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedDX-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedDX-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedDX-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedDX-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedDX-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedDX-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedDX-TEX is a quality contributor and well respectedDX-TEX is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

Im going to say the unthinkable: what about cutting OD?

hides behind wall in fetal position
DX-TEX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012   #9
IDEXAN
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Challis, ID
Age: 49
Posts: 7,739
Rep Power: 46599 IDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by DX-TEX View Post
Im going to say the unthinkable: what about cutting OD?
[/i]
It's a fair question, as is considering the idea of cutting another very popular team veteran, DeMeco Ryans.
IDEXAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012   #10
Dutchrudder 
COOL BEANS!
 
Dutchrudder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Houston
Section: Fort Kickass
Age: 30
Posts: 15,063
Rep Power: 150980 Dutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by IDEXAN View Post
It's a fair question, as is considering the idea of cutting another very popular team veteran, DeMeco Ryans.
The difference is that OD likely doesn't have any caphit if cut, but Ryans does. OD should be restructured though, his contract is front-heavy, and could be spread out more to help the team.
__________________
Life is too important to be taken seriously. -Oscar Wilde
Dutchrudder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012   #11
ckhouston
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Lost in Azeroth
Age: 46
Posts: 1,544
Rep Power: 0 ckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respectedckhouston is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
The difference is that OD likely doesn't have any caphit if cut, but Ryans does. OD should be restructured though, his contract is front-heavy, and could be spread out more to help the team.
Depending on what part of the remaining contract is guaranteed I believe. However, if you trade someone, the entire contract goes to the new team, unless a deal is made to absorb a portion as part of the trade. I think that is how it works.
ckhouston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012   #12
Corrosion
Hall of Fame
 
Corrosion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Northwest Houston
Age: 46
Posts: 31,534
Rep Power: 206631 Corrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
I'm kinda surprised we haven't begun things like this yet.
You can rest easy , the front office has been working on this since the day they lost to the Ravens ..... Its a matter of coming to terms with agents at this point in the game.
__________________



I Miss Good Schaub.
Corrosion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012   #13
GP 
Go Texans!
 
GP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: TEXAS!
Posts: 17,747
Rep Power: 50777 GP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respectedGP is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
You can rest easy , the front office has been working on this since the day they lost to the Ravens ..... Its a matter of coming to terms with agents at this point in the game.
I'd like to believe that. But there's room for the FO to make a colossal brain fart and totally screw up the progress and what SHOULD BE a great 2012 for us.

I hope you're right. I just always prepare myself for the worst, as should every Texans fan if they know their history correctly.
__________________
GP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012   #14
Dutchrudder 
COOL BEANS!
 
Dutchrudder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Houston
Section: Fort Kickass
Age: 30
Posts: 15,063
Rep Power: 150980 Dutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respectedDutchrudder is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhouston View Post
Depending on what part of the remaining contract is guaranteed I believe. However, if you trade someone, the entire contract goes to the new team, unless a deal is made to absorb a portion as part of the trade. I think that is how it works.
Trades are different than restructures and cuts. OD didn't have a signing bonus, so no dead money there. I believe his guaranteed money was only for year 1, so any trade or cut shouldn't cost us anything. Not saying we should cut him, just saying it's an option. Restructure seems like the way to go though, as he's set to earn 6.5 million this year according to sporttrac: OD's cap. Given his reported displeasure in the contract when he signed it, I wouldn't be surprised if those numbers are accurate. But the Texans could easily restructure 5 million of his money to a signing bonus, and push it out. That would cut 3.2 million from 2012, then hope that the cap increases a ton next year.
__________________
Life is too important to be taken seriously. -Oscar Wilde
Dutchrudder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012   #15
bckey
Hall of Fame
 
bckey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 53
Posts: 2,332
Rep Power: 15763 bckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

I think the Texans will be forced to let Mario walk because of $. I think the answer to replacing him is in this years draft. The Texans did just fine without him last season so they just need to draft a good pass rushing olb in one of the first 2 rounds. I really think they will have to sign a free agent wr that can be a legit #2. It is too risky to count on a rookie wr to start from day 1. Let KW play the slot. Cut JJ for sure. Hopefully Lestar Jean can stay healthy and be the player he was in preseason last year and compete with Jeff Maehl and Juaquin Inglesias. Maybe cut OD loose and re sign Dreesen to go with Graham and Casey. I think the Texans will be just fine after free agency, the draft and restructuring some contracts.. I'm not really worried.
bckey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012   #16
drs23 
Veteran
 
drs23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: No more VIP Suite so back to the recliner
Section: No more VIP suite so back to the recliner
Age: 57
Posts: 4,479
Rep Power: 84789 drs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respecteddrs23 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by bckey View Post
I think the Texans will be forced to let Mario walk because of $. I think the answer to replacing him is in this years draft. The Texans did just fine without him last season so they just need to draft a good pass rushing olb in one of the first 2 rounds. I really think they will have to sign a free agent wr that can be a legit #2. It is too risky to count on a rookie wr to start from day 1. Let KW play the slot. Cut JJ for sure. Hopefully Lestar Jean can stay healthy and be the player he was in preseason last year and compete with Jeff Maehl and Juaquin Inglesias. Maybe cut OD loose and re sign Dreesen to go with Graham and Casey. I think the Texans will be just fine after free agency, the draft and restructuring some contracts.. I'm not really worried.
Bet ya a doughnut to the hole in the middle, that doesn't happen. JMO but the Texans will be a no-show in FA.
__________________

Many thanks to sig Guru FS!

Sent from my keyboard using short, fat fingers.
drs23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012   #17
mussop
Hall of Fame
 
mussop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,209
Rep Power: 101211 mussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respectedmussop is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by drs23 View Post
Bet ya a doughnut to the hole in the middle, that doesn't happen. JMO but the Texans will be a no-show in FA.
If Mario leaves they will go after some FA's.
mussop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2012   #18
badboy
Site Contributor
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Clear Lake
Posts: 23,494
Rep Power: 160949 badboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respectedbadboy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by mussop View Post
If Mario leaves they will go after some FA's.
FYI, now that KC has signed Routt, they can deal with their other starting CB and deal with Dwayne Bowe WR. I was hoping Boswe could sign with us if Mario leaves.
__________________
I want to be able to recognize the difference between a "want" and a "need" and then I want to be satisfied with getting a need
badboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2012   #19
IDEXAN
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Challis, ID
Age: 49
Posts: 7,739
Rep Power: 46599 IDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respectedIDEXAN is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by badboy View Post
FYI, now that KC has signed Routt, they can deal with their other starting CB and deal with Dwayne Bowe WR. I was hoping Boswe could sign with us if Mario leaves.
I think Bowe runs in one place too long to suit our needs for a #2 across from AJ.
IDEXAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2012   #20
Texas T
Hall of Fame
 
Texas T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Wichita, KS
Age: 42
Posts: 1,775
Rep Power: 17309 Texas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respectedTexas T is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Examiner's Alan Burge - potential solutions for Texans' Cap Space Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by HOU-TEX View Post
I'm kinda surprised we haven't begun things like this yet.
I've been thinking the same thing. But then I think back and remember that the front office has always been pretty quiet until a deal has been reached. As fans we can just hope they are in heated talks with all the FAs we have and with others to adjust their contracts. I'm betting around 3 March we'll start hearing about what they've been doing.
__________________
"Artificial Intelligence is no cure for Natural Stupidity!"
Texas T is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger