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Old 02-18-2012   #1501
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Default Re: What to do with Mario?

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
I think the idea that people are using when they say that we can't afford him is that there will be a team that will outbid us even if we give him every last piece of our cap space.

If Mario hits the open market, I'm not saying he's for sure gone, but it's going to be very difficult for him to resist the temptation of being probably the highest paid defensive player in the NFL. It's not every year that a 27 year old stud pass rusher comes onto the open market. He may have some injury issues, but teams like Seattle, Jacksonville, or whoever are probably going to be more than happy to risk many 10's of millions of dollars on Mario Williams. If Mario wants to stay a Texan it's almost a guarantee that he will have to take a deal that will give the Texans enough cap space to sign Foster to a nice contract, because that guy is pretty much the heart and soul of the offense. Foster doesn't need to have a giganto contract like Peterson or Johnson, but I think we need to offer him top5 RB salary because that's what he is.

I do believe Williams wants to stay in Houston based off of the few articles already posted here, but want to, and will are worlds apart.
I think Mario will know that he coud have had money that others offer but just not seem like an ego fluffing player. I think a top 5 RB contract will satisy Foster who realizes Tate can extend his career. Those two guys seem to feed oof each other and enjoy the 2 back approach.
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Old 02-18-2012   #1502
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Default Re: What to do with Mario?

http://mobile.minnesota.sbnation.com...ion/in/2180932

Here is that link about the peterson deal. For those who don't want to read, if they skip to the bottom and the article says after the 3rd yr when little to no guarantee money is left. Why is that? Because they guaranteed the 1st 3 yrs of the money. Top that of,they can still pay foster and meyers good deals if they have to.
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Old 02-19-2012   #1503
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Default Re: What to do with Mario?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
That's another story all together. Not even the staunchest Mario supporter here is suggesting we over-pay the man.
The disagreement would be over what "over pay" means. I have to admit, it's amusing to see all of the wannabe GMs and agents come up with contract terms. When Mario signs, there will be some that think the contract is too high, some will feel the Texans got a deal, and some that will believe it was fair to both sides.
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Old 02-19-2012   #1504
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Default Re: What to do with Mario?

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
The disagreement would be over what "over pay" means. I have to admit, it's amusing to see all of the wannabe GMs and agents come up with contract terms. When Mario signs, there will be some that think the contract is too high, some will feel the Texans got a deal, and some that will believe it was fair to both sides.
Not that it means much, but I'm going on record now.... anything that exceeds Julius Peppers deal is over-paying. Avg salary ($14M), guaranteed money ($42M over 3 years), Total value ($92M over 6 years).

The Bears overpaid for Peppers 2 years ago. That pushed up the value for a guy like Charles Johnson, which drives up the value of a Mario Williams. In my mind, that value is between Johnson's deal & Peppers' deal, so anything over Pepper's deal is overpaying.

To me.
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Old 02-19-2012   #1505
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Default Re: From the Raider Board, re: Mario

From the Jets blog on ESPN:

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1. The Jets chased the most coveted free agent last offseason, ultimately losing CB Nnamdi Asomugha to the Eagles. The No. 1 prize in the upcoming free-agent market is Texans DE/OLB Mario Williams, who could land the richest contract in history for a defensive player. Even though the Jets have a glaring need for a 3-4 OLB, they are expected to sit out the Williams sweepstakes. The primary reason is cap room. As of last week, they had less than $500,000 in projected cap space. They can create room by restructuring bloated contracts and cutting players -- and they probably will -- but they evidently prefer to use the money to address several needs instead of putting all their eggs in the Williams basket.

2. There's also some question about whether Williams can be a 3-4 OLB. He debuted in that role last season, switching to a stand-up position in Wade Phillips' 3-4 scheme. He showed promise (five sacks in four-plus games), but it was short-lived because of a torn pectoral muscle. We're talking about only 225 snaps, including just 17 plays in which he dropped into pass coverage, according to Pro Football Focus. The Jets use their OLBs in pass coverage roughly 20 percent of the time, so there would be some adjustment.
Never even heard the Jets mentioned as a possible landing for Mario.

Changing the thread title to include any Mario to (fill in the blank) rumor.
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Old 02-19-2012   #1506
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Default Re: From the Raider Board, re: Mario

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
From the Jets blog on ESPN:


Never even heard the Jets mentioned as a possible landing for Mario.

Changing the thread title to include any Mario to (fill in the blank) rumor.
Should change this and all other Mario is leaving threads to "Blah, and blah blah".
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Old 02-19-2012   #1507
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Default Re: From the Raider Board, re: Mario

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Originally Posted by ckhouston View Post
Should change this and all other Mario is leaving threads to "Blah, and blah blah".
It should all be over soon enough. There will be some disappointed fans, regardless of whether Mario stays or leaves. And a lot of "I told ya so" posts.
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Old 02-19-2012   #1508
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Default Re: From the Raider Board, re: Mario

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
It should all be over soon enough. There will be some disappointed fans, regardless of whether Mario stays or leaves. And a lot of "I told ya so" posts.
I wish it would just hurry up and happen, whether he stays or goes.
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Old 02-19-2012   #1509
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Default Re: From the Raider Board, re: Mario

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Originally Posted by False Start View Post
I wish it would just hurry up and happen, whether he stays or goes.
23 days or less.
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Old 02-19-2012   #1510
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Default Re: What to do with Mario?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Not that it means much, but I'm going on record now.... anything that exceeds Julius Peppers deal is over-paying. Avg salary ($14M), guaranteed money ($42M over 3 years), Total value ($92M over 6 years).

The Bears overpaid for Peppers 2 years ago. That pushed up the value for a guy like Charles Johnson, which drives up the value of a Mario Williams. In my mind, that value is between Johnson's deal & Peppers' deal, so anything over Pepper's deal is overpaying.

To me.
Hide-n-watch it happen. By someone...
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Old 02-19-2012   #1511
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Default Re: From the Raider Board, re: Mario

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Originally Posted by False Start View Post
I wish it would just hurry up and happen, whether he stays or goes.
Hopefully he goes and we can spend money on players that are high motor guys on every play that are worth the money.
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Old 02-19-2012   #1512
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Default Re: From the Raider Board, re: Mario

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Hopefully he goes and we can spend money on players that are high motor guys on every play that are worth the money.
Whether MW stays or goes is less important than signing our other FA's. If he takes a hometown discount and we sign our oither guys, then all is well and good til next season.
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Old 02-19-2012   #1513
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Default Re: What to do with Mario?

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
The disagreement would be over what "over pay" means. I have to admit, it's amusing to see all of the wannabe GMs and agents come up with contract terms. When Mario signs, there will be some that think the contract is too high, some will feel the Texans got a deal, and some that will believe it was fair to both sides.
Is that true only about Mario and sports or just about anything in life?
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Old 02-19-2012   #1514
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Default Re: What to do with Mario?

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Is that true only about Mario and sports or just about anything in life?
Who cares? This scenario directly applies to to Mario and the Texans.
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Old 02-19-2012   #1515
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Default Re: What to do with Mario?

Show me some love Houston...
Or money..... either is fine with me.


Just saw that pic & had to post it.
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Old 02-20-2012   #1516
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Default Re: What to do with Mario?

As long as we can resign all our guys, that's really all I'm concerned about.

It's tough to let a talent like Mario go, but it's also tough to let a talent like Foster and Myers go.
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Old 02-20-2012   #1517
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Default Re: What to do with Mario?

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
If I am correct & the high end of the market is $14M/yr ($14 x 3 = $42M over 3 years) there is no reason we can not structure the deal so his cap hit for 2012 is closer to $10M

You keep saying he'll cost too much, or that we won't be able to afford him. Everything I've shown, & the others who've suggested contracts to keep Mario has shown a reasonable contract offer that will reduce his 2012 cap number (~$10M) compared to his 2011 cap hit (~$18M) leaving money to sign Foster & Myers ($5M to Foster, $3M to Myers) with the savings alone.

This doesn't take into account the other 15 FA that will be coming off our books, saving us money. This doesn't take into account we have several contracts that can be re-structured (to put more money in the players hands sooner & lower our cap). This doesn't take into account the $1M we can roll-over from 2011, or the $3M we'll be allowed to borrow from 2013.

So, when you say we won't be able to afford to keep Mario, could you please be a little more specific as to why not?
Ive already stated NUMEROUS times in other threads why we can't and shouldn't pay him. It has NOTHING to do with this season AND everything to do with the future. You can get him on the books now but not many contracts expire and every major contract we have ESCALATES each season so when guys like Cushing, Schaub, Brown and Barwin hit FA how will you sign them? Its about keeping a balanced check book and thinking down the road. You will need to sign him HUGE this year and lower his cap hit each season, not increase it to even have a chance at keeping him.

You are thinking too short sighted. You need to think long term and quit thinking just 2012.

Not to mention he isn't worth that money but thats another subject
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Old 02-20-2012   #1518
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Default Re: What to do with Mario?

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Ive already stated NUMEROUS times in other threads why we can't and shouldn't pay him. It has NOTHING to do with this season AND everything to do with the future. You can get him on the books now but not many contracts expire and every major contract we have ESCALATES each season so when guys like Cushing, Schaub, Brown and Barwin hit FA how will you sign them? Its about keeping a balanced check book and thinking down the road. You will need to sign him HUGE this year and lower his cap hit each season, not increase it to even have a chance at keeping him.

You are thinking too short sighted. You need to think long term and quit thinking just 2012.

Not to mention he isn't worth that money but thats another subject
I'm not being short-sighted at all. I understand the cap will go up in 2013. I don't believe signing MW is going to prevent us from signing Schaub, Cushing, or Brown in the future.
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Old 02-20-2012   #1519
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What's clouding the water, for me, is the overall success of Wade Phillips' newly installed 34 Defense.

Every week, a new guy was taking over the game. Barwin, Reed, Watt, Smith...each game, one of those guys was blasting the other team's QB or always meeting the RB at the LOS, etc.

Will that be a factor for McNair and Smith? As good as Ben Tate has been, I don't think he'd do as well without Foster's style of running. Defenses get accustomed to having to stop and wait for the cutbacks by Foster...so Tate blows right by them in a straight line a lot of times.

Without Mario, the defense was Top 1 or Top 2 depending on the week you go by. What would the offense look like without Foster for 75% of a season? Especially with Yates at QB or perhaps a potentially "lesser" Matt Schaub at QB?

Just thinking out loud, about the factors that might be involved with rationing out the payroll and cap space.
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Old 02-20-2012   #1520
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Default Re: What to do with Mario?

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What's clouding the water, for me, is the overall success of Wade Phillips' newly installed 34 Defense.

Every week, a new guy was taking over the game. Barwin, Reed, Watt, Smith...each game, one of those guys was blasting the other team's QB or always meeting the RB at the LOS, etc.

Will that be a factor for McNair and Smith? As good as Ben Tate has been, I don't think he'd do as well without Foster's style of running. Defenses get accustomed to having to stop and wait for the cutbacks by Foster...so Tate blows right by them in a straight line a lot of times.

Without Mario, the defense was Top 1 or Top 2 depending on the week you go by. What would the offense look like without Foster for 75% of a season? Especially with Yates at QB or perhaps a potentially "lesser" Matt Schaub at QB?

Just thinking out loud, about the factors that might be involved with rationing out the payroll and cap space.
The thing about the bolded though is that all those other guys got a chance to grow in the system as the season progressed; Behind the acquistion of Wade Phillips, i attribute that growth more than anything else as to the reason for us having so much success in turning around our defense.

The other thing is that Mario hadn't even really hit his stride in the system yet and was still well on his way to a career year by all indications. Looking at it from a different perspective, Reed & Barwin combined for 17.5 sacks last year. You say, ok that's pretty good. But when you factor in that Mario was on pace to get 16 all by himself before he went down, before he got comfy & without really experiencing the growth in the system that the other players did, it doesn't really look all that impressive.

The final thing is people need to get the feelings out of it & start looking at the resigning of Mario like its an acquistion of any other high profile FA that has never played for this team before. If you look at it this way, there's no question that acquiring a talent like Mario would make us better than we already are. Most teams in our position would probably be of the mindset that acquiring a player of Mario's caliber would put their defense over the top..........but only here in Houston do fans think that we could do without such a player.
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