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Old 02-15-2012   #241
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
You are crrect in your assesment but do not expect to see anyone higher than a 5th round brought into camp.
I expect them to draft one much higher.

I've said this before, but if Smith and Kubiak are smart, they can hope that Schaub returns to full form, but they need to plan as if he never will, and draft accordingly.
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Old 02-15-2012   #242
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Standard protocol for 32 NFL teams.

That being said, why do you trust what Manning says or reports about him?

If Schaub is not ready to start in September, I do not think it prudent to put all the eggs in a basket of a player who has had 3-4 neck surgeries in two years and has been as vague as it gets with regards to his status.

Manning was not honest with the Colts last off-season or during training camp. They were blind-sided by his obtuse arrogant nature. This is not something I think we should depend on for our 2012 season.

Besides, the last time he played was December 2010. A year off, multiple neck surgeries, inability to even toss a ball around, huge salary, and 36 years old do not add up to anything positive for this franchise.

It's a cute story in an off-season rumor sort of way, but I would honestly be shocked if the Texans FO was stupid enough to fall for it.
My stance is not that we should get Manning. I played devil's advocate early on in this discussion, in another thread, actually, but I have not said "We ought to get Manning in here, or at least try to." Not sure if that's where you were headed with the reply or not, but we both agree on this.

My stance is that BOTH those guys are likely fighting their own version of a losing or extremely "up hill" battle for 2012.

Yates is the safer bet here. He's not awesome, he's not a clear-cut winner every time he takes the field, but he's healthy and Schaub isn't. And I don't think Schaub returns in time to take the helm...not with the degree of severity of his particular Lisfranc injury. I'm not his doctor, but neither are any of you guys either. What I'm going on is the severity of his particular injury coupled with what that has historically looked like for other players in the NFL who tried to come back from it.

If he recovers fully AND doesn't lose the edge he had previously, then he's likely either the luckiest man alive, blessed by God, or getting and using supplement advice from certain players.

Marcus is right on two accounts here: (1) The Lisfranc injury is worse than people want to imagine, and (2) People are letting the divisional round failures of Yates get to their heads too much.

All I care is that Schaub is not rushed back hastily, which might cause more harm than good.
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Old 02-15-2012   #243
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
We've still got Leinart.

If Matt is healthy & ready to go week 1, he'll be the starter. However, if it looks like he may not, we'll hold on to Leinart & he'll start.

I know most people don't like the check down game in Jacksonville, but he probably graded pretty well for Kubiak. He took care of the ball & went down field when the opportunity was there.

He's bought & payed for, understands the system & Kubiak knows what to expect from him on & off the field, in & out of the locker room.
Matt Leinart??? You, again, are trying to see more than what's there.

Footwork is sloppy (which he said he had been "working" on that), his own slowness getting back to his last drop back was what caused him to get drilled into the turf (he's had that clavicle broken twice now, TK). And his lack of vision, coupled with his sloppy footwork and slow drop backs, is a nightmare.

He lobbed up a pass that we still cannot decide if it was truly intended for Dreessen or not, in that Jax game on the road. But Dressen snagged it and it gave us the eventual winning points. Yates came out like a fireball and then Kubiak realized, "Holy crap! I almost forgot we have NO other QB activated today. Dammit, get that guy handing the ball off or throwing the pass to the RB immediately, please." Yeah, I think the Leinart era is over for sure, TK.

Yates, though not perfect either, has these things to consider:

1. Had no off-season between draft and camp, due to lockout.

2. Worked the scout team, which meant he ran all the opponent's plays, and not our own, every week while Schaub and Leinart got reps with the ones.

3. Was pushed into the Jax game on a moment's notice and promptly led the team VERTICALLY down the field before being handcuffed due to Owen Daniels being the next QB if Yates went down.

4. Clinched the AFC South title and our first ever playoff appearance by zipping a perfect spiral to Kevin Walter on what was likely the last play of the Bengals game, on the road.

5. Played decently in the first playoff game and had a rough time on the road vs. the Baltimore Ed Reeds.

So....you're saying that after all that transpired here...Leinart will be the starter over Yates if Schaub is not ready to go? I'd like to propose a friendly wager. An avatar bet.The usual rules: Whoever loses has to wear the avatar chosen by the winner, for one week after the bet is resolved.
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Old 02-15-2012   #244
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I think it would be easy to make the case. Not just because of his playing on the field, but all the way back to the Dungy days, Manning was probably running practice as well as the game. The offensive coaches probably got complacent & let it ride.

Players were used to doing certain things a certain way, because it worked with Manning. Not just which plays were called, but how they practiced, worked out, studied, etc... Reggie Wayne, Collie, Garson, probably didn't have to study much film, Peyton would say, "when my left eye goes like this, you go like that."

Heck, they've had what, 3 (2 I'm sure) first round running backs & several first round linemen, but not one back to back 1000 yard season from any of them since the Edge left.. probably wasn't working on their running game.

Now Peyton gets hurt & all of a sudden the coaches want to act like coaches, telling them where to put their hands, stay awake in meetings, be on time, pay attention? I can see them having trouble.

This is all a figment of my imagination, but I can't think of a better reason to clean house, from the GM to the water boy.
That's a pretty good rundown of it. I think this is much like when the star of a high school football team goes absent...the star player's team is suddenly not as good as they were before.

And that's when fear grips that team, and the opponents play way above their own heads because they know they NOW can beat that team...and beat the SNOT out of them while they're at it.

Which is why I think Manning is screwed no matter which team he goes to. It sounds like he has trouble throwing passes over 20-yards deep, he's had MORE surgeries than was initially broadcast to the world, and he's headed into a situation in 2012 where opponents will not fear his ability to throw deep.

Take away the deep pass, and a QB is going to get blitzed or heavily rushed all day long. Everything goes shallow, and LBs and CBs can just play shallow and tee off on the WRs and TEs, etc.

Manning needs to realize there is a bright career in TV broadcasting.
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Old 02-15-2012   #245
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
I expect them to draft one much higher.

I've said this before, but if Smith and Kubiak are smart, they can hope that Schaub returns to full form, but they need to plan as if he never will, and draft accordingly.
Even if Schaub does comeback next year, how much slower will he be? I mean Bajeebus an old retired Dan Marino could beat him in a foot race before the surgery. And how is it going to effect him in the future? He is a FA next year and he's on the wrong side of 30 already with a long history of injuries.

Yates is okay but what if Schaub goes down again? Yates steps up and who backs him up? What if Yates can't handle the pressure? Lots of backups come in and look good at first, then teams get film of them and they are never heard of again. Frank Reich anyone?

This isn't a lets sign Manning post but its funny how some people say Manning couldn't run this offense because of the play action rollout. Well how is Matt Schaub going to run it with a bum foot?

I know this sounds crazy but we should be looking at franchising Mario and trading him along with whatever draft picks it takes to move up and take RG111. Why risk having to rely on an older often injured Schaub or a second year project like Yates when we have all this excellent young talent? Lets get our franchise QB of the future right now. Let him learn behind Schaub for a year. If Schaub goes down oh well throw RG 111 into the fire. If not you have a whole year to see if Schaub can stay healthy and lead this team to the promise land.
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Old 02-15-2012   #246
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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Originally Posted by mussop View Post
Even if Schaub does comeback next year, how much slower will he be? I mean Bajeebus an old retired Dan Marino could beat him in a foot race before the surgery. And how is it going to effect him in the future? He is a FA next year and he's on the wrong side of 30 already with a long history of injuries.

Yates is okay but what if Schaub goes down again? Yates steps up and who backs him up? What if Yates can't handle the pressure? Lots of backups come in and look good at first, then teams get film of them and they are never heard of again. Frank Reich anyone?

This isn't a lets sign Manning post but its funny how some people say Manning couldn't run this offense because of the play action rollout. Well how is Matt Schaub going to run it with a bum foot?

I know this sounds crazy but we should be looking at franchising Mario and trading him along with whatever draft picks it takes to move up and take RG111. Why risk having to rely on an older often injured Schaub or a second year project like Yates when we have all this excellent young talent? Lets get our franchise QB of the future right now. Let him learn behind Schaub for a year. If Schaub goes down oh well throw RG 111 into the fire. If not you have a whole year to see if Schaub can stay healthy and lead this team to the promise land.
If Schaub cannot do what is asked of him, and we should know that by the end of OTAs, then he goes on the PUP list. As much as most of us don't like it, if that scenario plays out then Leinart will be #1 on the depth chart. Yates will be #2. And don't be shocked if we bring Delhomme back.

As tantalizing as RGIII might look in a Texans uni, I don't see us paying the premium price it would take to move up to get him. ...especially if we're in a bidding war with Washington. We'd be essentially mortgaging this draft for a backup. That doesn't seem like smart business; especially if we need those early round picks to draft a #2 WR and/or snag a pass rusher to replace Mario in Wade's OLB rotation. I, for one, DO NOT, want to weaken our newly rebuilt defense or fail to upgrade our one offensive weak spot, #2 WR, for a guy (as good as he looks for the future) that will hold a clipboard for the next year or two. Surely there's a promising Schaub understudy in round 3 or later.

Finally, I don't trust Manning. If he can't be totally straight - about his health - with the folks who have been paying him all these years, why the helll would he be straight with us? Yeah, we could send him thru a battery of performance checks but we've been burnt by those before (see Tony Boselli).
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Old 02-15-2012   #247
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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Even if Schaub does comeback next year, how much slower will he be? I mean Bajeebus an old retired Dan Marino could beat him in a foot race before the surgery.
You need to remember that Schaub's injured foot is his plant foot. Mobility doesn't concern me. His ability to accurately throw the ball from pushing off on that plant foot does.

Case in point . . Ben Rothlesberger. Look how much his passing accuracy was affected gimping on that ankle all season.

Individual foot balance (the ability to stand on one foot without falling) is the last thing that comes back from a LisFranc injury. Now, I'm "assuming" his injury wasn't as severe as mine, but I do know that he had internal fixation (plates and screws) to stabilize it. He'll, at some time, need to have that hardware removed, in order to even attempt to restore full range of motion. If he had fusions done (to head off future degenerative arthritis) he'll never get it back.

I hope Schaub does what he says he's going to to do ... make it back in time for training camp. Nothing would make me happier. I'll just need to see it to believe it.
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Old 02-15-2012   #248
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Old 02-15-2012   #249
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Manning is not an option here. Notice his head coaches were either defensive specialists (Tony Dungy and Jim Mora) or a soap carving wearing a headset (Jim Caldwell). Kubiak runs the offense. No way he would give up offensive control to Manning, which is obviously what Manning requires.
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Old 02-15-2012   #250
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Thumbs down Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

Yeah....great report Bob Allen......
Think Bob is already thinking about his retirement.....
"Definetly, Possibly".......yeah....thats hilarious Bob.....great wordage there.....
And he admitted he screwed up the report......

I think he just wanted to get some ratings......well he did.....and useless sports talk too.....good job Bob.....
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Old 02-15-2012   #251
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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Yeah....great report Bob Allen......
Think Bob is already thinking about his retirement.....
"Definetly, Possibly".......yeah....thats hilarious Bob.....great wordage there.....
And he admitted he screwed up the report......

I think he just wanted to get some ratings......well he did.....and useless sports talk too.....good job Bob.....
Great "wordage"? You mean "English"?

And you can't spell "definitely", but you're criticizing him?

If you couldn't understand what he said, that's obviously your problem, not his. The story was perfectly clear - to most of us.
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Old 02-15-2012   #252
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

If Matt can't go, draft Case Keenum in the 6th and get him ready for mid season...

just a thought...
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Old 02-16-2012   #253
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

Bob Allen was on 610, the J&R segment and he said he saw the text from one of the manning family that Peyton had list of teams he liked and the texans were near (?) the top of his list to go to. He (Bob) screwed up saying the possibilty.
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Old 02-16-2012   #254
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

I can't decide what this thread is more like: Woody Allen talking about God or this...



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Old 02-16-2012   #255
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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Bob Allen was on 610, the J&R segment and he said he saw the text from one of the manning family that Peyton had list of teams he liked and the texans were near (?) the top of his list to go to. He (Bob) screwed up saying the possibilty.
I agree that the wording came out funny, but Bob Allen is a respected sports anchor in Houston, and the way they clowned him on the radio was just out of line in my view. Those jokers are the clowns in my view.
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Old 02-16-2012   #256
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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Finally, I don't trust Manning. If he can't be totally straight - about his health - with the folks who have been paying him all these years, why the helll would he be straight with us? Yeah, we could send him thru a battery of performance checks but we've been burnt by those before (see Tony Boselli).
You know what else? The report that came out recently where it said Peyton wanted to come into the game vs. Texans to run all of the Colts' red zone plays.

He wanted to come into the game against MY team and clown us.

That's the confirmation I needed, in order to solidify my opinion that we don't need to throw him a bone when we done beat the dog **** out of him and his team. We built this team to beat the Colts, don't acquire the guy (Manning) who was the head figure (literally AND figuratively, btw) of that team.

Colts and Manning can shrivel away to obscurity for all I care. Good riddance.
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Old 02-16-2012   #257
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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You need to remember that Schaub's injured foot is his plant foot. Mobility doesn't concern me. His ability to accurately throw the ball from pushing off on that plant foot does.
Accuracy doesn't concern me as much in this case as throw power will. Without the ability to properly push off of his plant foot, that ball will be much more likely to nosedive into the ground.
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Old 02-16-2012   #258
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

What is Schaubs status?

Is he walking on crutches? Or with a boot?

Does anyone know where he's at in the rehab process? Or where he should be?
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Old 02-16-2012   #259
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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What is Schaubs status?

Is he walking on crutches? Or with a boot?

Does anyone know where he's at in the rehab process? Or where he should be?
Not sure, but it would behoove the Texans to think seriously about getting another QB here (other than Manning).

Duce Staley, Errict Rhett and Warrick Dunn never really made it back from the injury. Granted, they were all running backs, but with the amount of rollouts this offense utilizes - you never know.
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Old 02-16-2012   #260
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Default Re: abc13 - peyton wants to be a texan comeing up in sports

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Not sure, but it would behoove the Texans to think seriously about getting another QB here (other than Manning).

Duce Staley, Errict Rhett and Warrick Dunn never really made it back from the injury. Granted, they were all running backs, but with the amount of rollouts this offense utilizes - you never know.
I was just genuinely curious if anyone had heard anything other than "I'll be ready"....

As far as Manning goes....I'm not getting too wrapped up in that, but I am curious what other QB's you guys would want in here....

Are you thinking draft? trade? Free agents?
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