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Old 02-06-2012   #61
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
If I were looking for a slot guy - Wright would be my target without question .... But the Texans dont have trouble moving the ball between the 20's where a guy like Wright can help , their troubles are in the redzone. I want a guy who can cause problems in the there , a big target who creates a mismatch with smaller DB's on fades and crossing routes. A guy that you can throw it up and he'll go take it.
For my money , the reciever in this draft that most describes is Alshon Jeffery , second would be Michael Floyd.
We need the best player. Not a guy who just helps in the red zone.

All we've had are big WR's...Andre, Kevin, Jacoby...Hell, B.Johnson isn't small. Lestar Jean has a chance to stick next year and he isn't small.

OD is not really small...He's 6'3"...Dreesen is 6'4" and is a good box out jump up and catch the ball guy.

How often have we thrown the fade route to Andre? How often have we used Kevin Walters Big body in the EZ?

Even if we aren't throwing the jump ball type of passes, how often have you seen the back shoulder throw from a QB on the Texans roster?

The Texans have plenty of big targets. Hell, in fact that's pretty much all we've had. We don't utilize their size very often. The QB's need to improve on their redzone passing because we've been pretty mediocre at it. Our best RZ weapon has been Arian by far.

Id rather have a smaller more skilled guy than a bigger less skilled guy.

I would be happy with any of those top 4 or 5 receivers, but I would actually trade up for Wright if I had the chance.

Wright would not only help take pressure off of AJ, he'd also help take pressure off of OD in the middle of the field.
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Old 02-09-2012   #62
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

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We need the best player. Not a guy who just helps in the red zone.

All we've had are big WR's...Andre, Kevin, Jacoby...Hell, B.Johnson isn't small. Lestar Jean has a chance to stick next year and he isn't small.

OD is not really small...He's 6'3"...Dreesen is 6'4" and is a good box out jump up and catch the ball guy.

How often have we thrown the fade route to Andre? How often have we used Kevin Walters Big body in the EZ?

Even if we aren't throwing the jump ball type of passes, how often have you seen the back shoulder throw from a QB on the Texans roster?

The Texans have plenty of big targets. Hell, in fact that's pretty much all we've had. We don't utilize their size very often. The QB's need to improve on their redzone passing because we've been pretty mediocre at it. Our best RZ weapon has been Arian by far.

Id rather have a smaller more skilled guy than a bigger less skilled guy.

I would be happy with any of those top 4 or 5 receivers, but I would actually trade up for Wright if I had the chance.

Wright would not only help take pressure off of AJ, he'd also help take pressure off of OD in the middle of the field.
You have to look at what makes us successful as an offense though, and that all starts with a run oriented offense. 5'11" speedsters aren't typically known for their upfield 1 on 1 blocking skills.
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Old 02-09-2012   #63
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

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You have to look at what makes us successful as an offense though, and that all starts with a run oriented offense. 5'11" speedsters aren't typically known for their upfield 1 on 1 blocking skills.
This is why LZ's mock pick Randle inyrigues me.

He's big, dont know how fast Randle is but he was the Tigers best deep threat. He also is a very good blocker.

Randle kinda reminds me of Reggie Wayne.
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Old 02-09-2012   #64
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

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This is why LZ's mock pick Randle inyrigues me.

He's big, dont know how fast Randle is but he was the Tigers best deep threat. He also is a very good blocker.

Randle kinda reminds me of Reggie Wayne.
That's also why I like Ladarius Green (I know, TE) and Streeter in the 3rd if we trade away our first round pick after ILB/OLB in the first. 6'6" and 6'5" respectively.

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Old 02-10-2012   #65
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

If Wright runs a low 4.3 forty, we can all assume he wont be there at 26, right?
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Old 02-10-2012   #66
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

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If Wright runs a low 4.3 forty, we can all assume he wont be there at 26, right?
anything sub 4.4 there is a high probability he's off the board by 26, yes.
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Old 02-10-2012   #67
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

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anything sub 4.4 there is a high probability he's off the board by 26, yes.
But the Raiders don't have a 1st round pick!

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Old 02-10-2012   #68
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

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You have to look at what makes us successful as an offense though, and that all starts with a run oriented offense. 5'11" speedsters aren't typically known for their upfield 1 on 1 blocking skills.
Kubiak had no problem putting David Anderson on the field.

And Wright is pretty physical and a willing blocker. Most CB's aren't 6'3" so it's not like he'll be blocking a lot of guys way bigger than him.

And besides all that, I'll take a receiver that is a better receiver everyday over a receiver that is a better blocker. Blocking as a receiver is all about effort and willingness.
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Old 02-10-2012   #69
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

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Mario: I want to be a Texan my whole career. I believe the Texans will be a Super Bowl contender next season and I wish to be a part of that.

ummm... just what do we mean by "very good contract? Other than for Brady, the Pats aren't known for opening their checkbook. Plus, Uncle Bob and Buddha Wade both like me. A lot. So why should I leave here?
5 years: @ $20m up front bonus ($4m per year for cap) $60m salary -$20m (bonus)= $40m = $8m salary + $4m bonus prorated= $12m avg year. Set up first two years low but guaranteed and back end remainder due to 2013 TV money raising cap tremendously.
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Old 02-10-2012   #70
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

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After watching the SB (and almost every single Pats game) I see that Kareem Jackson ahead of McCourty was, is, and will remain the correct call.

The Pats have been playing McCourty more and more at safety.
And they play a lot of cover 2 no matter who is at CB.
It makes the job harder for the front players when they can't bring a safety down to help either the running game or pressuring the QB or playing the TE close to the vest.

In our case, we're OK at CBs for now.

Yeah, I like for us to have a big receiver who can take the hit over the middle.
He should have decent speed to take advantage of certain situation.
I'd like to see more of Lester Jean to see whether his conditioning program was able to help him maintain a little balance of both.

If he can be used in situational situation (goal line, 3rd down) then we may be able to just go with a speedster that doesn't have the size.
I'm just not sure how high in the pecking order should we draft such a guy.

(I'm not sure that Wright qualifies as a true speedster.
I might compare him with Patrick Edwards later - and right now Edwards is flying very low under the radar; some even has him as an UDFA.)
Kendall Wright has an unofficial 4.39 40; what do you consider "speedster"?
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Old 02-10-2012   #71
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

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Kendall Wright has an unofficial 4.39 40; what do you consider "speedster"?
I saw that nfldratscout, for example, had him run an average of 4.42 which is a little faster Edwards 4.44

Donnie Avery 4.43 (combine) and 4.34 (pro day) was drafted early in the second.

Torrey Smith 4.41 (combine) (stood at his pro day) was drafted in the second round.

Avery stand 5-11;
Smith stands 6-1

Until something becomes official, that's what I would go with.
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Old 02-10-2012   #72
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

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You have to look at what makes us successful as an offense though, and that all starts with a run oriented offense. 5'11" speedsters aren't typically known for their upfield 1 on 1 blocking skills.
Wright comes from a non running offense so can you or anyone say for certain what kind of blocker he could be. If he is taking a corner and a safety deep does he have to block often in our D?
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Old 02-10-2012   #73
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I saw that nfldratscout, for example, had him run an average of 4.42 which is a little faster Edwards 4.44

Donnie Avery 4.43 (combine) and 4.34 (pro day) was drafted early in the second.

Torrey Smith 4.41 (combine) (stood at his pro day) was drafted in the second round.

Avery stand 5-11;
Smith stands 6-1

Until something becomes official, that's what I would go with.
Well you compared speed with Wright why did you not compare stats? I'm sure Avery & Smith were pretty close to Kendall's?
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Old 02-10-2012   #74
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

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Well you compared speed with Wright why did you not compare stats? I'm sure Avery & Smith were pretty close to Kendall's?
I don't want to compare stats because different teams build their offense differently. Even the same team may have different looks from year to year because of change in personnel. And they face different opponents.

If we were to compare stats, I could have pulled up Edwards numbers and compare it to Wright.

Edwards: 89 catches 1752 yards 20 TDs

Wright: 108 catches 1663 yards 14 TDs

Who had a better season?


Edwards 48 games
291 catches 4507 yards 43 TDs

Wright 50 games
302 catches 4004 yards 30 TDs

Who had a better collegiate career?


More important, however, were the followings:

Remember I had noted that Edwards faced more draftable DBs (based upon CBSSports top 500 for 2012 and 2013) which more or less offset the overall level of competition.

Note also that I had at least did a game breakdown (UH vs S.Miss where the Golden Eagles game-planned as not to let Edwards beat them deep.)

Did you notice the competition do the same with Wright?
Did you ever see a team put a "triple-team" (basically a zone, but with emphasis on the main receiver) on Wright like the Golden Eagles put on Edwards?

Certainly not the Cowboys from Okl. St. (lots of cover one).
I don't think I see it from the Aggies, the Sooners nor the Huskies from Washington either.

Not saying that every team planned to take Edwards off the game like So Miss did.

In general though, I must say that teams were playing a lot more cover 2 against the Cougars as opposed to the Bears (from the games I've reviewed so far - the 4 games mentioned above plus the Rice game.)
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Old 02-10-2012   #75
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

76 I think you make my point as Wright is a speedster and his stats are much better than others who are bigger. Edwards would have done well in the Oilers Run & SHoot
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Old 02-11-2012   #76
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

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76 I think you make my point as Wright is a speedster and his stats are much better than others who are bigger. Edwards would have done well in the Oilers Run & SHoot

The Cougars and the Bears offense are not all that diifferent, especially in the passing game.
Many of the same formations.
TCU (Dalton) and Okl. St. (Weeden) are also quite similar.

Keenum had played under Art Briles as well as one of the co-OC Jason Philips (who was a receiver.)

They all start with the shotgun spread.
They all could have one or two, sometimes 3 backs (besides the QB) in the backfield.
The money is still made out of the spread.
And by spreading, I mean spreading the field horizontally, not vertically.

The Coogs also incorporated some of Dana Holgorsen's Air Raid (Texas Tech) into their playbook (Holgorsen also spent time at Okl St.)
Klif Kingsbury who played QB at TT joined the Coogs in 2010 as a co-OC with Jason Phillips.
Klingsbury will follow Sumlin to A&M as the OC; Phillips will go to SMU.
So perhaps next year, you can call A&M offense as the run and shoot if you're so inclined.

Baylor and TCU will go under Center from time to time, but mostly to run in short yardage (obviously to make it work, they have to mix in the pass once in a long while.)



Edwards can do very well in NE; he can also do well in Houston with the Texans.
He's not bad at all in run blocking.
A spread receiver still has to do a good share of blocking.
I even saw Edwards throw a CB into the ground.
I saw him engaging in some pretty good fights.
(David Anderson was pretty good for his size, too.)

I haven't really focused on Wright's blocking, but I don't think he was bad either.

...

In summary, I think I know your point, but I'm not quite sure;
it seems like you leverage a few things I point out to make a better case for your points (which is all good).

My point is that even as a Coogs homer, I still have to balance out Edwards size/skill sets and try to see (as objectively as I can) whether he can have a good future in the NFL. Even as I've seen him many times and I know what he can do, I still have to try to study him as a scout, rather than as a homer.

I have to consider his physical limitation; whether he can compensate for his size by doing this and this and that.

I did the same for Avery; I had my reservation about where he was drafted.
I was glad for Avery as I was glad for Routt (another Cougar) when he got the big contract from the Raiders (Routt ran some 4.29 if I recall it right). You haven't heard me saying that Routt is the best CB out there, have you?


A few years back, I did note that Routt was the one who chased down Jacoby Jones on a return and stopped him a hair from a TD.
I knew he (Routt) has speed; you never heard from me that he was a great CB.
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Old 02-11-2012   #77
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

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The Cougars and the Bears offense are not all that diifferent, especially in the passing game.
Many of the same formations.
TCU (Dalton) and Okl. St. (Weeden) are also quite similar.

Keenum had played under Art Briles as well as one of the co-OC Jason Philips (who was a receiver.)

They all start with the shotgun spread.
They all could have one or two, sometimes 3 backs (besides the QB) in the backfield.
The money is still made out of the spread.
And by spreading, I mean spreading the field horizontally, not vertically.

The Coogs also incorporated some of Dana Holgorsen's Air Raid (Texas Tech) into their playbook (Holgorsen also spent time at Okl St.)
Klif Kingsbury who played QB at TT joined the Coogs in 2010 as a co-OC with Jason Phillips.
Klingsbury will follow Sumlin to A&M as the OC; Phillips will go to SMU.
So perhaps next year, you can call A&M offense as the run and shoot if you're so inclined.

Baylor and TCU will go under Center from time to time, but mostly to run in short yardage (obviously to make it work, they have to mix in the pass once in a long while.)



Edwards can do very well in NE; he can also do well in Houston with the Texans.
He's not bad at all in run blocking.
A spread receiver still has to do a good share of blocking.
I even saw Edwards throw a CB into the ground.
I saw him engaging in some pretty good fights.
(David Anderson was pretty good for his size, too.)

I haven't really focused on Wright's blocking, but I don't think he was bad either.

...

In summary, I think I know your point, but I'm not quite sure;
it seems like you leverage a few things I point out to make a better case for your points (which is all good).

My point is that even as a Coogs homer, I still have to balance out Edwards size/skill sets and try to see (as objectively as I can) whether he can have a good future in the NFL. Even as I've seen him many times and I know what he can do, I still have to try to study him as a scout, rather than as a homer.

I have to consider his physical limitation; whether he can compensate for his size by doing this and this and that.

I did the same for Avery; I had my reservation about where he was drafted.
I was glad for Avery as I was glad for Routt (another Cougar) when he got the big contract from the Raiders (Routt ran some 4.29 if I recall it right). You haven't heard me saying that Routt is the best CB out there, have you?


A few years back, I did note that Routt was the one who chased down Jacoby Jones on a return and stopped him a hair from a TD.
I knew he (Routt) has speed; you never heard from me that he was a great CB.
This is a good example of why NFL teams have scouts spread across the country to cover specific areas, they become expert on talent within that area. 76 has the makings of a very good scout, if he could leave out of it?
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Old 02-13-2012   #78
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

Curious where you guy's have DeVier Posey from Ohio State ranked. Dont see him on anyone's list.


Has good size , speed and seperation ..... Could likely be had in the 3rd or 4th rounds.
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Old 02-13-2012   #79
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
Curious where you guy's have DeVier Posey from Ohio State ranked. Dont see him on anyone's list.


Has good size , speed and seperation ..... Could likely be had in the 3rd or 4th rounds.
His hands are suspect. He had a terrible Sr. Bowl week.

Late rd pick because of the qualities you lisyed above.
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Old 02-13-2012   #80
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Default Re: What's your rankings of WRs in this draft class?

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
The Cougars and the Bears offense are not all that diifferent, especially in the passing game.
Many of the same formations.
TCU (Dalton) and Okl. St. (Weeden) are also quite similar.

Keenum had played under Art Briles as well as one of the co-OC Jason Philips (who was a receiver.)

They all start with the shotgun spread.
They all could have one or two, sometimes 3 backs (besides the QB) in the backfield.
The money is still made out of the spread.
And by spreading, I mean spreading the field horizontally, not vertically.

The Coogs also incorporated some of Dana Holgorsen's Air Raid (Texas Tech) into their playbook (Holgorsen also spent time at Okl St.)
Klif Kingsbury who played QB at TT joined the Coogs in 2010 as a co-OC with Jason Phillips.
Klingsbury will follow Sumlin to A&M as the OC; Phillips will go to SMU.
So perhaps next year, you can call A&M offense as the run and shoot if you're so inclined.

Baylor and TCU will go under Center from time to time, but mostly to run in short yardage (obviously to make it work, they have to mix in the pass once in a long while.)



Edwards can do very well in NE; he can also do well in Houston with the Texans.
He's not bad at all in run blocking.
A spread receiver still has to do a good share of blocking.
I even saw Edwards throw a CB into the ground.
I saw him engaging in some pretty good fights.
(David Anderson was pretty good for his size, too.)

I haven't really focused on Wright's blocking, but I don't think he was bad either.

...

In summary, I think I know your point, but I'm not quite sure;
it seems like you leverage a few things I point out to make a better case for your points (which is all good).

My point is that even as a Coogs homer, I still have to balance out Edwards size/skill sets and try to see (as objectively as I can) whether he can have a good future in the NFL. Even as I've seen him many times and I know what he can do, I still have to try to study him as a scout, rather than as a homer.

I have to consider his physical limitation; whether he can compensate for his size by doing this and this and that.

I did the same for Avery; I had my reservation about where he was drafted.
I was glad for Avery as I was glad for Routt (another Cougar) when he got the big contract from the Raiders (Routt ran some 4.29 if I recall it right). You haven't heard me saying that Routt is the best CB out there, have you?


A few years back, I did note that Routt was the one who chased down Jacoby Jones on a return and stopped him a hair from a TD.
I knew he (Routt) has speed; you never heard from me that he was a great CB.
76, my point was you posted this at #58:
(I'm not sure that Wright qualifies as a true speedster.
I might compare him with Patrick Edwards later - and right now Edwards is flying very low under the radar; some even has him as an UDFA.)

I responded that he had run an unofficial 4.39 and that should identify him as a speedster. I have not read one evaluation that does not mention his speed and ability to go deep.
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