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Old 02-07-2012   #21
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

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Originally Posted by Insideop View Post
I think at least one of them will be there. If it's Floyd, I'm not sure the Texans will take him since he has some "off the field issues." If Jeffrey is there I think it's a no brainer, but if Wright is there, I'm not sure they pull the trigger as fast. He doesn't fit what they want most, size! His speed may win them over but I'm sure they will be looking at other factors, like his route running and ability to block before they pull the trigger.
We have a lot of size...

We need more talent. Wright fits that bill.

If he's on the board and they don't take him I'll be a little dissapointed....

But the draft is a tough process, so I'm never too hard on any of the picks..
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Old 02-08-2012   #22
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

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.......at least Ingram isn't a gigantic reach for a pass rusher in the 1st. I think you guys focused entirely too hard on the DL (even though I like the players) with no sort of nod to LB depth. 5th round Qb is a waste. Either address QB properly or let it be. If Schaub's health is a factor and TJ is considered as just a backup then another 5th on a QB is hardly addressing THAT sort of problem. On the other hand, if you think Schaub and TJ can get it done then why address QB at all? Still have Leinart too.
In this scenario Mario is gone and we strongly believe OLB becomes instant draft need although we are solidly behind Reed/Barwin. OLB is such a priority in Phillips D that we have to go first round and Ingram is a beast. ALso, like Mario or hate him, he is a damn good if not great DE who could replace Watt if needed. With Mario gone we think Wolfe is a JJ Watt clone. WR is a priority & Criner is great value + he should be there round two. I am a big fan of Jordan White who could move up after mock.
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Old 02-08-2012   #23
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

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This. Plus I'd us prefer us to resign Myers/Foster/Brisel before we sign Mario cuz I don't think there will be enough Cap Room/Space.

We can always find a good OLB in the 2nd round.
Actually, you cannot. Vinny Curry is only one & he might be there might not. We debated him for long time but like our mock as posted. Second round is deeper in WRs.
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Old 02-08-2012   #24
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

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I appreciate everything you & rMartin & Badboy put into these drafts.

Can you (any of you) tell me what your thoughts are on Wade Smith & his backup..... please.
Thanks TK for compliment. IMO, current roster has no back up for LG or RG and why Smith able to start all season. Studdard (former starter) was out all season and I am not a fan of Kubiak's boy. Shelley Smith has potential but no one has seen much of his skills on field. We debated over going OG high but thought our priorities match Texan managements thought. Briesel is highly respected as a tough player who often started injured. Remember the game he had high ankle sprain, was out one play and returned with ankle taped? That is Kubes (and our )type of player even if we are not 100 % satisfied with him.

To your question, we also discussed if Wade Smith could have an undisclosed injury as his play seemed to decrease this season. It is my thought that Briesel will be re-signed and Smith will be challenged by someone. Levy Adcock is a monster in size and attitude. We think you will like his effort if drafted.
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Old 02-08-2012   #25
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

Imagine if the Giants grab Wolfe with the 32nd pick.
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Old 02-08-2012   #26
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

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Imagine if the Giants grab Wolfe with the 32nd pick.
Not impossible Gary but I don't see that.
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Old 02-08-2012   #27
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

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Not impossible Gary but I don't see that.
They really do not have any needs this year.
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Old 02-08-2012   #28
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

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They really do not have any needs this year.
Yes they do, both TE's tore ACL's in the Super Bowl.

They also need a LT if Beatty doesn't make it back. (Not that he was all that great to begin with.)
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Old 02-08-2012   #29
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

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Yes they do, both TE's tore ACL's in the Super Bowl.

They also need a LT if Beatty doesn't make it back. (Not that he was all that great to begin with.)
IMO David Deihl has never been anything but average as a LT. Plus the Giants are good on the d-line side with JPP and Tuck for the next few years, they should re-build their O-line while they have the luxury to do so. The run game wasn't that great this year despite Eli throwing for about 4900 yards. Could use another RB if Jacobs is cut too. They aren't perfect, but they have few needs.
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Old 02-09-2012   #30
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
1B. (Without Mario)
Version 1B without Mario means Texans focus on other free agents, including Foster. Ingram grades out similar to Wright but Criner/Jones will grade out higher than Wolfe who provides depth & value.


1st Round: Melvin Ingram, OLB, 6016 278, South Carolina
Tweener DE/OLB (reason we can mock him as still on the board) exactly type of player Wade Phillips covets. In the event that Mario leaves, pass rush becomes a problem. Yes, we understand that Reed filled in admirably. But a good D in todayís NFL is predicated upon a vicious pass rush. One that forces the QB to throw too quickly, forces the offense in to 2nd and long, 3rd and long situations. And without Mario, we are one injury away from starting Braman. While I think Braman has potential, I donít want to be reliant on him just yet. Ingram is a stud, and probably the purest pass rusher available in the draft. A sudden player with excellent lateral movement, quick hands, a good first step and a knack for the big play (multiple TDs this year), Ingram projects to be a double digit sack kind of guy at the next level.

2nd Round: Juron Criner, WR, Arizona, 6-4 215
Complete package, experienced, smart, good teammate resume very productive production vs. top talent. Elite size and speed combination, is big play threat, works to separate in routes/adjustments down field. Runs crisp routes, doesnít seem to lose speed coming out of breaks, good ball security & uses body tos shield ball with body (blocks-out like a BB player). The selection of a WR in second round is a fluid process, went Criner because he is Pro-ready & lower risk. 2nd rd. receiver is such a loaded group it makes singling out very difficult for three men, or a NFL teams war room to decide. For instance love the upside of Marvin Jones, WR, CAL, who has more explosive big game ability. Come April his grade could escalate (higher ceiling) than Juron, stay tuned Texan fans don't fret. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32F2P...ature=youtu.be

3rd Round: Derrick Wolfe, DE, Cincinnati, 6-5 286
See him more as a 5 tech but never know? can stand up so can fill two key positional needs in Wade Phillips 3-4. Wolfe had an excellent senior season with 64 tackles, 19.5 tackles for a loss, two forced fumbles and 9.5 sacks. At the point of attack, he overwhelms offensive linemen with his strength and speed. Wolfe closes on the quarterback quickly and plays the run extremely well. He has a nice repertoire of pass rushing moves and uses a strong rip move.

4th Round: Jordan White, WR/Retuner, Western Michigan, 6-0 215
Texans can address starting NFL returner with WR skills (ranked 9th by NFLdraftscout) in Jordan White. A true ball magnet who may be slighted from playing against weaker competition. Displays strong hands & ball security, tucking ball quickly to absorb hits. Crosses middle like a TE with quick feet. Sinks hips to decelerate opening separation. Great YAC & breaks tackles Good routes but could block better & has body strength to do so. Uses stiff arm well. 140/1911 @ 13.7 avg. 17TDs.

5th Round: B.J. Coleman, QB, Chattanooga Mocs, 6-3 234
During the East-West Shrine practices, Coleman's leadership in individual, group and team drills stood out. Coleman certainly made a strong case to move up draft boards with his zip-line fastballs throughout the week. He showed he was capable of making every throw, as he consistently hit the deep comeback route off of play-action with accuracy. Coleman will have to improve on throwing the ball on time, but that should get better the more he becomes adjusted to the speed of the game. The former Tennessee Volsí transfer finished the game 10-of-15 for 170 yards and a touchdown strike to former Michigan State WR B.J. Cunningham.

6th Round: Nicolas Jean-Baptiste, NT, Baylor, 6-2 322
Played next to Phil Taylor (drafted 21st overall in 2011) showed continual progress Senior season increasing sack total to 4 with 8 TFL -36 yards & 36 tackles. Has lower body strength to anchor & drive linemen back into the pocket, reportedly squats over 600 lbs. Earned All-District honors on the offensive and defensive line in his senior year at Strake Jesuit College Prep in Stafford, Texas, Jean-Baptiste decided to walk-on to the Baylor football team. Seems a long shot to the NFL but through hard work & god given ability he is a smart player to become legitimate rotational NT in a 3-4.

7th Round: Alfred Morris, RB/FB, Florida Atlantic Owls, 5-11 222
Strong as a bull, can block & can't be arm tackled, mini-sized Vonta Leach. I have been a fan of Morris since his sophomore season, and have not been disappointed by his last two years. Morris is an incredibly tough runner, rarely going down on the first hit. He plays a North/South game, and has underrated lateral agility. While he will (likely) never be more than a rotation back, Morris brings a hard nosed mentality and will find a spot on this team in short yardage situations and special teams.
I also believe the pick should also be Ingram if Mario is gone.
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Old 02-09-2012   #31
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Yes they do, both TE's tore ACL's in the Super Bowl.

They also need a LT if Beatty doesn't make it back. (Not that he was all that great to begin with.)
The TE are coming back, right?
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Old 02-09-2012   #32
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

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The TE are coming back, right?
It usually takes 2 yrs to fully recover from an ACL injury.
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Old 02-09-2012   #33
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

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It usually takes 2 yrs to fully recover from an ACL injury.
Then I guess they are going to need TE help. Look for them to sign a free agent. Maybe Joel Dreessen would be a good pick up for them.
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Old 02-09-2012   #34
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

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Then I guess they are going to need TE help. Look for them to sign a free agent. Maybe Joel Dreessen would be a good pick up for them.
He could be, but the Giants can't sign anyone until they lose a free agent. Hopefully that gives the Texans time to work out a deal with him.
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Old 02-09-2012   #35
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

Won't both players go on IR or just be cut?
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Old 02-09-2012   #36
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

Par for the course, discussion always focused on first rd. selection but no love for Baylor NT Nicolas Jean-Baptiste or RB Alfred Morris?
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Old 02-09-2012   #37
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

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Par for the course, discussion always focused on first rd. selection but no love for Baylor NT Nicolas Jean-Baptiste or RB Alfred Morris?
Jean-Baptiste would be an excellent pick if he weren't the 3rd DL drafted in the mock. Mario may be leaving but Smith, Cody and Watt are not and with Jamison and Mitchell DE depth is already stocked. Morris, admittedly I know zero about.
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Old 02-09-2012   #38
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

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Jean-Baptiste would be an excellent pick if he weren't the 3rd DL drafted in the mock. Mario may be leaving but Smith, Cody and Watt are not and with Jamison and Mitchell DE depth is already stocked.
here you go again. Three defensive players three different positions.
  • Ingram - OLB
  • Wolfe - 5 tech DE
  • Baptiste - NT

Tim Bulman - 2012 FA
Tim Jamison - 2013 FA
Jesse Nading - 2013 FA
Mario Williams - 2012 FA
Antonio Smith - 2014 FA

ask yourself is this too much? really?

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Morris, admittedly I know zero about.
Tweener between RB & FB size 5-11 222, quick, works well in phone booth type, using short cuts, difficult to arm tackle. could translate into short down option initially? provide depth, might just have to work his way up from PS, just being realistic. can catch ball out of the backfield, should develop into a plus blocker & special teams player. We would really like a FB option here, but yet not sold on any this late.
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Old 02-11-2012   #39
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

Peoples perception is Mario would still be a starter if resigned right? Yet Texans don't really need to do this since they have Barwin & Reed who are starting OLB's. Ingram is a more dominant pass rushing talent than Barwin or Reed, yet people say we don't need him even without Mario because they have Barwin & Reed. Kinda ironic if you ask me. In my mind we lose a starter either way, meaning both should start ahead of Barwin or Reed. That's not a knock on them either its just truth.

Ok so we address WR. Starter for sure right? Then in the total context of upgrading positional needs (Texans need to keep adding two or three players in the off season who upgrade roseter) they remain essentialy neutral (0 gain 0 loss). Addition to finding starting caliber WR help, they will need to add quality depth to positions where they are weakest (thin) OT is one that pops into my head & we've discussed need to continue a culture of developing young QB's. These positions are somewhat easier to identify with lower cost picks long as there is excellent coaching within a dynamic system.

Best call is to resign Mario. With him out most of last season that's like adding a new (elite) starter, WR early & Free Agency. Depth core positions, development of young QB's we believe is essential.
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Old 02-11-2012   #40
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Default Re: BB/65/BL Post Super Bowl Texan 2012 Mock Draft 1B.

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Peoples perception is Mario would still be a starter if resigned right? Yet Texans don't really need to do this since they have Barwin & Reed who are starting OLB's. Ingram is a more dominant pass rushing talent than Barwin or Reed, yet people say we don't need him even without Mario because they have Barwin & Reed. Kinda ironic if you ask me. In my mind we lose a starter either way, meaning both should start ahead of Barwin or Reed. That's not a knock on them either its just truth.
Reed........maybe but there's no way you can say right now that Ingram is more talented than Barwin who is producing similar if not better numbers at a higher level of competition. Add NFL experience, experience in this system, Barwin's athleticism and ethic......A big part of the defensive meltdown 2 seasons ago was losing Barwin. You make an interesting point the way you frame it but losing Barwin or Reed is losing a quality player no matter who you put in.

Like I said...MAYBE better than Reed, who did nothing but exceed any expectation placed on him. I don't believe in giving guy's chances, watching them succeed and then finding a way to get them off the field. I think that's how you divide a lockerroom and lose the respect from your players.

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Ok so we address WR. Starter for sure right? Then in the total context of upgrading positional needs (Texans need to keep adding two or three players in the off season who upgrade roseter) they remain essentialy neutral (0 gain 0 loss). Addition to finding starting caliber WR help, they will need to add quality depth to positions where they are weakest (thin) OT is one that pops into my head & we've discussed need to continue a culture of developing young QB's. These positions are somewhat easier to identify with lower cost picks long as there is excellent coaching within a dynamic system.

Best call is to resign Mario. With him out most of last season that's like adding a new (elite) starter, WR early & Free Agency. Depth core positions, development of young QB's we believe is essential.
You wanna talk about thin....do the Texans even have a backup C with Myers currently a free agent? At least OT has 2 great starters locked down and a couple young bucks in Butler and Newton. I think probably the best point that these two mocks have uncovered is the need to develop a QB. It's coming and they need to address it before it's a huge problem.
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