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Old 02-03-2012   #1
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Default Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

This thread is all about moving back and stocking up! Give me your best trade back scenarios!!!!!!


With the 26th pick in the draft the Houston Texans select:

To trade back!


Using a trade value chart I found at draftcountdown.com the Texans pick is worth about 700 points. Trading back to the 6th pick of the 2nd round (Redskins) worth 520 and picking up their 4th and 5th round picks, worth approx. 120 points. We give up a little but get the chance to save on the cap when it is starting to rear it's ugly head and still get a boatload of midround talent.

So with the 38th and first pick of the Texans, they select:

2a- Mohammed Sanu, WR, Rutgers
6'2'' 215 lbs. 4.57-40

Big, fast, explosive and agile athlete, a reliable target with YAC skill. Not a burner but plenty of speed and skill to challenge anywhere on the field. Begins as a compliment to Andre, a chain mover and legit #2 threat to space out a defense. Has the ability to take what he learns from Andre and apply it to become the #1 when Andre declines. I'm not even really considering another guy here even at #26 unless someone like Michael Floyd were to drop. Or Possibly Peter Konz if Chris Myers goes to Oakland too.

2b- Kevin Zeitler, OG, Wisconsin
6'4'' 315 lbs. 5.26-40

A big man who anchors well against big NT types running or passing. Has the size, tenacity and mobility to play for a long time. Strong, hard worker and durable. Replaces Wade Smith immediately. Comes from a school known for it's RB and OL and with the success J.J. Watt brought I say we get as much of their premium talent as possible! Again, not even really considering anyone else, he's a fit for the system, a need and at a good price, should be a short term upgrade and a long term OL fixture.

3- Shea McClellin, DE/OLB, Boise State
6'3'' 248 lbs. 4.74-40

Depth behind Barwin and Reed, I for one believe (and hope) Mario leaves for F/A dollars. McClellin is a bit of a tweener, not having a real position but is a strong, relentless pass rusher who is noted for making plays despite lacking elite athleticism. With time to learn and hone his craft, he'll be an excellent addition to the edge and he and Braman make up probably the most interesting backup OLB duo I can think of lol....Also thought about taking Audie Cole ILB here but went with the more productive player.

4a- Chris Givens, WR, Wake Forest
6'0'' 195 lbs. 4.52-40

Listed as the ideal slot receiver for a west coast attack. Yes please. Former track star, able to get lots of separation running routes with his quickness and agility. Can challenge vertically as well as over the middle, producing nice YAC numbers. Very solid depth, could even challenge Sanu/Walter for regular playing time. There are some good Safety/depth options here, G. Iloka and H. Smith but Givens is a good match and value here. It's important to emphasize the offense as often as possible this year, they need the boost that the defense got last year. Tommy Streeter is a guy who might be available but I think Givens has the edge right now, more polished receiver running routes, better hands and can play all over the field.


4b- Rhett Ellison, TE, Southern California
6'5'' 250 lbs. 4.76-40

Good sized, plus blocker-quick and tough, decent receiver. Compares favorably to Joel Dreesen according to cbssports.com, which is exactly who he replaces. Bit of an all-rounder who is good at everything but not great at anything and plays special teams. NFL bloodlines, father was a LBer.

5a- Nicolas Jean-Baptiste, DT, Baylor
6'2'' 335 lbs. 5.08-40

A big man to add to DL depth, moves Mitchell over to End. Good quickness, not much of a pass rusher but too big of a brick to move unless you double team him. Should add some heft and brute strength in the middle of the line on early downs and in relief of Cody.

5b- Chad Diehl, FB, Clemson
6'2'' 257 lbs. 4.72-40

The new hammer! Allows Casey to play his jack-of-all-trades role while upgrading over Vickers blocking. Run or pass pro, he delivers the block with authority. Special teams contributor as well.

6- Charles Brown, DB, North Carolina
5'9'' 209 lbs. 4.49-40

Stock slips a bit due to suspension in 2010 but otherwise had a productive college career. Despite good athleticism and agility he's not good at man-to-man coverage but is great in zones and is a sure tackler. I plan on letting him learn behind Quin or Manning as a safety while he contributes to special teams as the punt returner.

7- Joe Looney, OG, Wake Forest
6'3'' 320 lbs. 5.08-40

As a run blocker he uses violent hands to drive defenders back and quick feet to get to the second level. Pass pro is suspect because of poor technique/agility. Team leader type who works hard and is definitely worth a late round pick to groom for the future.

Roster Overview:

Qb: Schaub, Yates
Rb: Foster, Tate, Ward
Fb: Diehl, Casey*
Te: Daniels, Ellison, Casey*/Walter*, Graham
WR: Johnson, Sanu, Givens, Walter*, Jean
OL: Brown, Zeitler, Myers, Brisiel, Winston
OL: Newton, Looney, Smith, Smith, Butler

DL: Watt, Cody, Smith
DL: Jamison, Jean-Baptiste, Mitchell
Lb: Reed, Cushing, Ryans, Barwin
Lb: Braman, Dobbins, Sharpton, McClellin
Cb: Joseph, Jackson, Harris, McCain, Carmicheal, McMannis
S: Manning, Quin, Brown, Nolan


Couple quick points-
I actually tried not to pick a DB because I felt with Joseph and Manning there is the veteran presence and elite performance and with Harris and Carmichael set to get their shot we really have 2 guys who are basically rookies coming in anyway. The CB I did end up picking I would plan on moving to Safety immediately.

McCllelin is a nod to some of the drafniks here, I picked up on him I think from one of beerlover's drafts and really like his style, seems to fit into what Wade likes...hustle. Watt, Reed, Barwin, Cushing, Cody, Smith, Ryans....all hustle guys. However, maybe someone like Donte Paige-Moss is available. He's coming off injury and a suspended season but flashed great potential to rush the passer.

I definitely would've liked to pick up a later round MLB to throw into the mix, maybe Gallipo from USC but alas, it just wasn't in the cards. Perhaps dropping C-Brown for him could be an option but it's still a depth pick either way and since Brown has experience returning punts, he gets selected.
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Old 02-03-2012   #2
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Default Re: Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

I can see us trading back with Seattle so they can take Tannehill. People will expect NE to trade back their last pick, and it would be easy for NE to take Washingtons picks which are more valuable. So I can imagine Seattle trying to jump in before NE's pick to take Tannehill.

Really like the first 4 picks though, I might take Joe Adams in the second WR spot as that's one player the Texans have talked to
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Old 02-03-2012   #3
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Default Re: Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

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Originally Posted by Brandon420tx View Post
I can see us trading back with Seattle so they can take Tannehill. People will expect NE to trade back their last pick, and it would be easy for NE to take Washingtons picks which are more valuable. So I can imagine Seattle trying to jump in before NE's pick to take Tannehill.
Yeah, I did this totally disregarding plausibility so....lol....it was mainly to illustrate a couple of things:
1- Moving out of the first would help save the cap, this year but also moving forward. Mario and Foster are the big topics this year but that doesn't mean next year won't have a couple big decisions too!
2- At the end of the 1st you're not getting one of the year's elite prospects and since WR happens to be our big need AND it's a class chock full of good looking WR prospects....move back and grab a few of them.
3- Everyone loves a good trade back and the only other time the Texans went with an offensive player 1st was Duane Brown, who they dropped down to get.

Quote:
Really like the first 4 picks though, I might take Joe Adams in the second WR spot as that's one player the Texans have talked to
Haven't done proper reading on him yet but I actually started my trade back scenario going 2a- Sanu / 2b- D. Jones, grabbing 2 of the big WR prospects first but with a guy like Zeitler hanging around and the WR class going so deep it would be a bit of a wasted pick. Definitely could see them grabbing 2 and maybe even 3 WRs this go-round.
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Old 02-03-2012   #4
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Default Re: Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

I think you're selling yourself short here TK. The Skins should give up a 2nd and 3rd at a premium to move back into the 1st to get a QB. Chances are they will be in a bidding war if that's who they are moving up for and the team moving back should get more 'value' out of the trade. It's not uncommon at all for a 2nd and 3rd to be turned into a late 1st. I'm pretty sure the Packers gave up that to get Clay Matthews.
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Old 02-04-2012   #5
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Default Re: Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

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Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
I think you're selling yourself short here TK. The Skins should give up a 2nd and 3rd at a premium to move back into the 1st to get a QB. Chances are they will be in a bidding war if that's who they are moving up for and the team moving back should get more 'value' out of the trade. It's not uncommon at all for a 2nd and 3rd to be turned into a late 1st. I'm pretty sure the Packers gave up that to get Clay Matthews.
Agreed. I think Minn could be a trading partner as well. If Blackmon goes #2, I could see Minn taking a Kalil then calling us at 26 if there's a good WR prospect. I would take nothing less then their 2 and 3 to do it.
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Old 02-04-2012   #6
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Default Re: Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

I'm all for trading back (as usual) for cap purposes. Unless Jeffery fallsto 26, that guy will have a chip on his shoulder and is a stud that was held back by poor QB play.
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Old 02-04-2012   #7
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Default Re: Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

I'm pretty sure I'd take Washington's 2& 3rd for #26. I'd take D. Jones WR & OG Zeitler in 2nd & probably Chapman DT/NT and Derek Wolfe in third. In 4th say S. Winston Guy & in 5th Jordan White.
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Old 02-04-2012   #8
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Default Re: Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchrudder View Post
I think you're selling yourself short here TK. The Skins should give up a 2nd and 3rd at a premium to move back into the 1st to get a QB. Chances are they will be in a bidding war if that's who they are moving up for and the team moving back should get more 'value' out of the trade. It's not uncommon at all for a 2nd and 3rd to be turned into a late 1st. I'm pretty sure the Packers gave up that to get Clay Matthews.
According to that chart their 2nd is 520 and their 3rd is 240, so I think it would probably be necessary to have another team upping the ante to get that kind of value. If they could get the 2nd AND 3rd my whole strategy would change. Maybe they could double up on WR early, get Sanu and Brian Quick or Dwight Jones then grab some 3rd round line depth. Zeitler may still be available by that 3a pick but Ryan Miller is another good choice. Maybe Alameda Ta'amu is available. That would be pretty awesome.
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Old 02-05-2012   #9
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Default Re: Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
According to that chart their 2nd is 520 and their 3rd is 240, so I think it would probably be necessary to have another team upping the ante to get that kind of value. If they could get the 2nd AND 3rd my whole strategy would change. Maybe they could double up on WR early, get Sanu and Brian Quick or Dwight Jones then grab some 3rd round line depth. Zeitler may still be available by that 3a pick but Ryan Miller is another good choice. Maybe Alameda Ta'amu is available. That would be pretty awesome.
Curiousity question:

This draft value chart you refer to; has it been updated to reflect the new, more sensible, rookie pay scale?
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Old 02-06-2012   #10
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Default Re: Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Curiousity question:

This draft value chart you refer to; has it been updated to reflect the new, more sensible, rookie pay scale?
Nope.... but it's still a useful tool for gauging value of picks. Everything beyond pick 20 or so should stay the same.
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Old 02-06-2012   #11
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Default Re: Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

Quote:
Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Curiousity question:

This draft value chart you refer to; has it been updated to reflect the new, more sensible, rookie pay scale?
I dunno....I just found it after typing in a search for draft trade value charts. Seemed like it was official enough...

Nobody else wants a piece of some trade down mock action? There's a lot of talent in the midrounds and there's only one way to stock up on them!
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Old 02-07-2012   #12
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Default Re: Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

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Originally Posted by TimeKiller View Post
I dunno....I just found it after typing in a search for draft trade value charts. Seemed like it was official enough...

Nobody else wants a piece of some trade down mock action? There's a lot of talent in the midrounds and there's only one way to stock up on them!
Oh I'm ALL for trading out of the first round to snag additional picks. I'm just having problems figuring out who our trading partner would be.

One could argue that Tampa might trade back into the first round to grab Tannehill since their current QB, Josh Freeman, seemed to take a big backwards step this year and the new HC doesn't have ties to him.

Washington, as you said, is still in need of a QB. So is Denver; but I'd hate to be the guy they draft to compete with Tebow.

The picture could become a bit clearer after free agency begins in March.
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Old 02-08-2012   #13
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Default Re: Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Oh I'm ALL for trading out of the first round to snag additional picks. I'm just having problems figuring out who our trading partner would be.
It doesn't have to be entirely plausible. The exercize was really just to focus on the mid round players available and how you would go about restocking the depth chart.
Quote:
One could argue that Tampa might trade back into the first round to grab Tannehill since their current QB, Josh Freeman, seemed to take a big backwards step this year and the new HC doesn't have ties to him.
You would think TBay probably should have learned it's lesson about grabbing a first round QB who probably shouldn't be taken in the 1st round....Freeman is still young and talented too.
Quote:
Washington, as you said, is still in need of a QB. So is Denver; but I'd hate to be the guy they draft to compete with Tebow.
You said it buddy. Nobody will ever be a better QB than Tebow, if you get my drift....
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Old 02-08-2012   #14
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Default Re: Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

Miami/Seattle/Washington are possibe trade partners for Tannehill.

Miami will probably sign Flynn, Washington will probably trade up for RG3. So that leaves Seattle as a probable trade partner for the Texans late in the 1st rd.
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Old 02-08-2012   #15
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Default Re: Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

I flew this out in one of the 3 amigo's threads, why not draft Tannehill in the 1st if he's available? From what I can read he's a guy with a lot of skills that is 1) being pushed up due to certain players staying at college and 2) needs to sit and learn to fulfill his potential. Why not let him learn under Schaub and Kubiak the QB genius, promote healthy competition with Yates and be our "Next Man Up"?
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Old 02-08-2012   #16
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Default Re: Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

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I flew this out in one of the 3 amigo's threads, why not draft Tannehill in the 1st if he's available? From what I can read he's a guy with a lot of skills that is 1) being pushed up due to certain players staying at college and 2) needs to sit and learn to fulfill his potential. Why not let him learn under Schaub and Kubiak the QB genius, promote healthy competition with Yates and be our "Next Man Up"?
Cause there are better prospects later in the draft. Osweiler and Foles will be around in the second, and we could sell Tannehill for picks, drop to the early second and take one of those guys instead. I don't think there is a huge difference among those guys. I have watched Tannehill's entire career at A&M, and he just doesn't have the mental makeup of a franchise QB IMO. Great measurables, but makes lots of stupid mistakes like staring down Jeff Fuller, forcing the ball into double/triple coverage, etc. I'm sure he'll make for a capable backup QB and stick around in the NFL for years, but I don't think he is able put a team on his back and win.
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Old 02-08-2012   #17
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Cause there are better prospects later in the draft. Osweiler and Foles will be around in the second, and we could sell Tannehill for picks, drop to the early second and take one of those guys instead. I don't think there is a huge difference among those guys. I have watched Tannehill's entire career at A&M, and he just doesn't have the mental makeup of a franchise QB IMO. Great measurables, but makes lots of stupid mistakes like staring down Jeff Fuller, forcing the ball into double/triple coverage, etc. I'm sure he'll make for a capable backup QB and stick around in the NFL for years, but I don't think he is able put a team on his back and win.
Exactly how I responded to TK in our 3 Amigos mock. I'd take either Osweiler or Foles over Tannehill.
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Old 02-09-2012   #18
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Default Re: Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

Osweiler looks unnatural to me. The Lindley fella y'all brought up is a much smoother athlete/QB.
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Old 02-09-2012   #19
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Default Re: Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

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Osweiler looks unnatural to me. The Lindley fella y'all brought up is a much smoother athlete/QB.
Osweiler is 6'7 and like 240 pounds. He could be a TE/3rd string QB! So he turns into a good QB or becomes our Gronkowski!
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Old 02-09-2012   #20
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Default Re: Your Best Trade-Back Scenario

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Osweiler is 6'7 and like 240 pounds. He could be a TE/3rd string QB! So he turns into a good QB or becomes our Gronkowski!
Ha!

Gronkowski is from a different planet. For a dude to be that big and that agile is unheard of.

Osweiler looks frail and awkward with the ball. Wouldn't take him unless it was a late, late round pick.
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