Move to 4 - 3?

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by SESupergenius

Vinny will argue that the coachin staff is dumbing down the system because Carr can't handle it. I'm perplexed as to why we didn't use 4 or 5 wr sets. On long plays we used 3 wr sets and even when we were down by 20 we were using 2 wr sets. That's just crazy.

See here is why I didn't understand Pendry's playcalling--It isn't anymore complex to run out of 4 or 5 WR's. Just tell your QB to ignore all but 2--he is making the same reads. The point is you spread the D out. They were clearly all set to stuff DD. Try something other than a heavy formation if you have 8+ in the box. Seems to me the coaching staff is dumbing down.

[ledzeppelin229]

I think the players we have, have some ability. The coaches apparently didn't see much in Steve Foley, yet he gets ten sacks in San Diego's defense. The coaches don't understand how to make a scheme fit the players they have. They just try to make players play their scheme whether it's the most effective way or not.

I'm also tired of seeing how passive our entire team is. Everyone seems so lethargic and uninspired. Capers seems to be the primary cause of it.

[Bubbajwp]

Warning long post.

First
I would like to say I want us to switch to a 4-3 defense. I like the 3-4 defense but we dont blitze enough. If you watch the steelers or the cowboys they blitz 4,5,6, guys every play.

Second
IMO it would take the Texans just as long to get the players for a 4-3 defense as it will take them to fix our 3-4 defense. With the loss of Wong we now have 0 playmaking linebackers. None of our OLB (including Peek) can pressure the QB. If Wong fully recovers from his injury we still need 3 new linebackers. To switch to a 4-3 we would need 2 DE and 1-2 linebackers.

Third
I hate to say it but if we do switch to a 4-3 we should pass on D'brick.
If we have a top three pick in the draft I think we could get two first rounders one this year and one next year plus a second rounder this year. If the team doesnt agree to the trade try just getting two first rounders. If the dont agree try one first rounder and one second rounder Ill say we get both first rounders and a second rounder because of Matt Lienart, Reggie Bush, and D'Brick.

Fourth
This is how I would switch to a 4-3 defense and fix the oline using the draft.
Round 1 OLB - AJ Hawk(I cant explain with words how bad I want Dbrick)
Round 2a C - Greg Eslinger - Minnesota
Round 2b LG - Davin Joseph - Oklahoma
Round 3a TE - Tim Day - Oregon
Round 3b MLB - Spencer Havner - UCLA
Round 4 DE - Thomas Carrol - Miami
Round 5 LG - Will Allen - UT
Round 6 CB - Antwaan Allen - Iowa
Round 7 QB - Tye Gunn - TCU

We get a LT and a DE in free agency.

Offense
LT - Free agency
LG - Davin Joseph
C - Greg Eslinger
RG - Chester Pitts
RT - Riley, Wade, Wand whoever the coaches decide is best.
TE - Tim Day, Bennie Joppru depends on injury.
Defense
LE - Free agency
DT - Robaire Smith
DT - Seth Payne, TJ coaches decide who is better
RE - Peek, Babin, Thomas Carrol coaches decision
LOLB - AJ Hawk
MLB - Spencer Havner
ROLB -Wong, Greenwood depends on injury

OR

LOLB - Wong
MLB - AJ Hawk
ROLB - Greenwood

In the 2007 draft concentrate on LB, CB, S, QB, WR.
I hope Ahmad Brooks, Vince Young, Marcus Vick, Reggie Bush, Devin Hester, Mario Williams, Winston Justice, Omar Jacobs, Darnell Bing stay in school so we would have a chance at one or two of them next year. Remember we would have two first round picks. :astros: :astros: :astros:

[eriadoc]

Well, point by point then ....

First
I would like to say I want us to switch to a 4-3 defense. I like the 3-4 defense but we dont blitze enough. If you watch the steelers or the cowboys they blitz 4,5,6, guys every play.

If you like that style of defense, then why not advocate a change to the Steelers style of the 3-4 defense?

Third
I hate to say it but if we do switch to a 4-3 we should pass on D'brick.
If we have a top three pick in the draft I think we could get two first rounders one this year and one next year plus a second rounder this year. If the team doesnt agree to the trade try just getting two first rounders. If the dont agree try one first rounder and one second rounder Ill say we get both first rounders and a second rounder because of Matt Lienart, Reggie Bush, and D'Brick.

This team needs defensive players, no doubt - especially with Walker's advancing age and increasingly frequent injury status. TJ is unproven and Wong's knee injury will likely keep him away from 100% through next season. That said, this team has needed offensive linemen since its inception. Passing on a franchise LT would be a mistake - whether it's Ferguson, Winston, or whoever is deemed to be a franchise-caliber LT.

Fourth
This is how I would switch to a 4-3 defense and fix the oline using the draft.
Round 1 OLB - AJ Hawk(I cant explain with words how bad I want Dbrick)
Round 2a C - Greg Eslinger - Minnesota
Round 2b LG - Davin Joseph - Oklahoma
Round 3a TE - Tim Day - Oregon
Round 3b MLB - Spencer Havner - UCLA
Round 4 DE - Thomas Carrol - Miami
Round 5 LG - Will Allen - UT
Round 6 CB - Antwaan Allen - Iowa
Round 7 QB - Tye Gunn - TCU

We get a LT and a DE in free agency.

Teams do not let franchise LTs go in free agency. LTs like Victor Riley, Ross Verba, and Todd Wade are allowed into free agency. It's easy to say we can fix it in free agency - the reality is, it won't happen. Take LT in the first round.

The bottom line is really the performance of our players. It isn't the 3-4, 4-3, 3-3-5, or 10-1 defense. We play 3-man and 4-man fronts quite a bit already. Our execution and/or defensive calls within the 3-4 is the problem. Other teams run the 3-4 with much success. Of course, they don't have Fangio's style of 3-4.

[royce1054]

I would like the 46 then i look at the players on our D and cry. Then i look at the O and say damn our D is good.

[BigBull17]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

See here is why I didn't understand Pendry's playcalling--It isn't anymore complex to run out of 4 or 5 WR's. Just tell your QB to ignore all but 2--he is making the same reads. The point is you spread the D out. They were clearly all set to stuff DD. Try something other than a heavy formation if you have 8+ in the box. Seems to me the coaching staff is dumbing down.

No they are just dumb...

[TheOgre]

I wouldn't mind if they found a new coach that wanted to use an aggressive 3-4 scheme. Our talent is built for that style. I am just guessing that McNair and Casserly might want to go with a more traditional 4-3, since this team has struggled with the 3-4. It could be a reaction to the current system's failures.

[uhcougar08]

This is one of the worse defensive schemes I have ever seen, it is terrible to line up 3 against 5 and expect 2 middle linebackers to do something, while you have 2 DE standing up on the outside. Im happy for New England for getting this done, great job up there. This is horrible down here. But 4 to 5 guys on the ground and get in the backfield. 4-3 all the way.

[Coach C.]

I love the 3-4. Also for those people that dont know football we are lining up in alot of 4-3 sets already. The 3-4 is a great defense when ran properly. Hey it has stolen 2 wins for Cleveland and 1 for SF, not to mention the championship team 3 of the last 4 years.

[texan279]

If we do switch to a 4-3 IMO it will just take us that much longer to see improvement as a team. Cleveland switched to the 3-4 this season and look how they have done so far. Baltimore went to the 4-6 and it's got them nothing. I will admit, Dallas went from a 4-3 to 3-4 and have improved, but they had a good draft and had to focus on defense in the draft. The thing about the 3-4 is what you are actually doing is disguising your 4th rusher, but how often does Fangio send that 4th rusher? I know our LB's are not elite, but they are faster than last season. I think if we saw more aggressive playcalling from Fangio and more man to man coverage from our DB's we could see success with the 3-4 with the players we have. But when your DB's are 5-8 yards off the line of scrimmage and you put your LB's into coverage majority of the time, I could see how opposition could take advantage either by running or passing the ball.

[HardKnockTexan]

Switching to a 4-3 sounds very tempting due to the horrible performance of our defense so far this season.

Jason Babin - 6'2'' 259 lbs.
Antwan Peek - 6'3'' 238 lbs.
Dwight Freeney - 6'1'' 268 lbs.

So if we were to switch it looks like Babin does have the size to play down on the line. Peek would be left out of possition regardless if he is put down on the line or stays at linebacker. Neither are in Freeney's league but just comparing their size, Babin seems to be the ideal choice for RE.

That would give us Babin at rightend. Payne, Smith and Johnson at tackle and leave an open hole at the left end possition.

Our 2006 4-3 Defense:
RE - Jason Babin
DT - Robaire Smith
DT - Seth Payne / Travis Johnson
LE - Freeagent / Draft Pick
ROLB - Marlon Greenwood
ILB - Kieley Wong
LOLB - Freeagent / Draft Pick
CB - Dunta Robinson
CB - Freeagent / Damarcus Faggins / Draft Pick
FS - Marcus Coleman
SS - C.C. Brown / Glenn Earl / Freeagent / Draft Pick

[texan279]

Originally Posted by HardKnockTexan

Switching to a 4-3 sounds very tempting due to the horrible performance of our defense so far this season.

Jason Babin - 6'2'' 259 lbs.
Antwan Peek - 6'3'' 238 lbs.
Dwight Freeney - 6'1'' 268 lbs.

So if we were to switch it looks like Babin does have the size to play down on the line. Peek would be left out of possition regardless if he is put down on the line or stays at linebacker. Neither are in Freeney's league but just comparing their size, Babin seems to be the ideal choice for RE.

That would give us Babin at rightend. Payne, Smith and Johnson at tackle and leave an open hole at the left end possition.

Our 2006 4-3 Defense:
RE - Jason Babin
DT - Robaire Smith
DT - Seth Payne / Travis Johnson
LE - Freeagent / Draft Pick
ROLB - Marlon Greenwood
ILB - Kieley Wong
LOLB - Freeagent / Draft Pick
CB - Dunta Robinson
CB - Freeagent / Damarcus Faggins / Draft Pick
FS - Marcus Coleman
SS - C.C. Brown / Glenn Earl / Freeagent / Draft Pick

So the way you have it setup, there are 8 holes needed to be filled via draft/free agency. The offensive line and TE position need a little attentoin also. And you are basing some of this on size alone. No one knows how any of these guys would fare in the 4-3, except for maybe Wong and Robaire who have played in the 4-3 before.

[HardKnockTexan]

Originally Posted by texan279

So the way you have it setup, there are 8 holes needed to be filled via draft/free agency. The offensive line and TE position need a little attentoin also. And you are basing some of this on size alone. No one knows how any of these guys would fare in the 4-3, except for maybe Wong and Robaire who have played in the 4-3 before.

I'm just speculating for hopes sake. Putting an undersized DE on the line could cause huge problems for the running game. So I know ability has A LOT to do with possitions people play, so does size. Our team is full of holes on both sides of the ball. Regardless if we switch to a 4-3 it looks like it will take a few years to field a team that fits any system.

[Cincinnatikid]

Originally Posted by HardKnockTexan

I'm just speculating for hopes sake. Putting an undersized DE on the line could cause huge problems for the running game. So I know ability has A LOT to do with possitions people play, so does size. Our team is full of holes on both sides of the ball. Regardless if we switch to a 4-3 it looks like it will take a few years to field a team that fits any system.

You may also want to check on your size measurements and the accuracy of them. I know that peek was listed 238 previously but this year he is at least up to 250 which he is listed as. He was up in the 270's but lost some of that weight to keep more speed

[Bubbajwp]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

Well, point by point then ....



If you like that style of defense, then why not advocate a change to the Steelers style of the 3-4 defense?



This team needs defensive players, no doubt - especially with Walker's advancing age and increasingly frequent injury status. TJ is unproven and Wong's knee injury will likely keep him away from 100% through next season. That said, this team has needed offensive linemen since its inception. Passing on a franchise LT would be a mistake - whether it's Ferguson, Winston, or whoever is deemed to be a franchise-caliber LT.



Teams do not let franchise LTs go in free agency. LTs like Victor Riley, Ross Verba, and Todd Wade are allowed into free agency. It's easy to say we can fix it in free agency - the reality is, it won't happen. Take LT in the first round.

The bottom line is really the performance of our players. It isn't the 3-4, 4-3, 3-3-5, or 10-1 defense. We play 3-man and 4-man fronts quite a bit already. Our execution and/or defensive calls within the 3-4 is the problem. Other teams run the 3-4 with much success. Of course, they don't have Fangio's style of 3-4.

IMO we can have a effective 4-3 defense next season by doing what I said. I also think it would take more tha one year to find good passrushing OLB and Runstopping MLB to fit a 3-4.

I picked 2 offensive lineman and a TE in the first three rounds.
C Greg Eslinger, Davin Joseph, and TE Tim Day. Not to mention Will Allen later in the draft. I never said that the LT we sign in free agency had to be a superstar.

Which is why we get a new defensive coordinator and we would also have four new starters on defense. AJ Hawk, Spencer Havner, Thomas Carrol, DE from free agency.

[touttail]

Capers said on the sportsradio610 radio show that they run the 4-3 sometimes. I haven't seen it if they have!

bobby 119C :brickwall

[Bubbajwp]

Originally Posted by touttail

Capers said on the sportsradio610 radio show that they run the 4-3 sometimes. I haven't seen it if they have!

bobby 119C :brickwall

Even if they do use a 4-3 its not a true 4-3. They just put peek and babin on the line of scrimage.