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Old 02-02-2012   #21
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I know you guys do this "mock draft" stuff for fun, I was wondering how far you guys take it..... I used to stay up late nights in dark rooms playing dungeons & dragons.. did y'all get together and make these decisions, as if y'all were Rick, Gary, & Cal?
Not to pat ourselves on back but yes we take it pretty far. All season long Beerlover, Rmartin 65 & I burn up PMs tossing players, stats, video, links etc at each other. We really chew up a player and spit him out. Each of us of course have favorites and not all end up on our 3 Amigos annual mock. It is very stressful yet lots of fun. So far each off season, we have decided to call off the joint mock but the thrill pulls us back. At least for one more year. We should be posting our pre-combine mock soon and hopefully it will cause discussion, debate and more than likely dissent as the others have.
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Old 02-03-2012   #22
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

[quote=badboy;1894125]
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Curry is gonna be another Cushing on the field and has been moving up boards all season. If Mario is gone few will want to depend on last season's roster guys to back up Reed and Barwin. Curry does not have to start to be our first pick. Our starters are sound except WR2. BL addresses that need in round two.
If he won't start and there are other players who will.......that's a wasted pick to me. I'd even rather see a CB than another LBer. And if he did start that would completely undermine the success of Barwin/Reed and derails any chance at them improving. Seen a few highlights of Curry, he's a gifted athlete, no doubt but practically any other position would be better served with a #1 pick.

Criner, admittedly I haven't done much research but I think that's because I'm still picking up on guys who will be available even in the 2nd who are better prospects. IMO that would make 2 big reaches in a row.

Speaking of starting not one other pick stands the remote possibility of starting, even in the case of injury they would likely be down the line. The RB for instance. The CB is only a good pick if KJ, Harris, McCain, Carmichael AND McMannis all flop out. The TE may never even get a locker. The OT is 5th at best on the depth chart behind Brown, Winston, Newton and Butler. Just not my favorite beerlover effort.
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Old 02-03-2012   #23
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

[quote=TimeKiller;1894279]
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If he won't start and there are other players who will.......that's a wasted pick to me. I'd even rather see a CB than another LBer. And if he did start that would completely undermine the success of Barwin/Reed and derails any chance at them improving. Seen a few highlights of Curry, he's a gifted athlete, no doubt but practically any other position would be better served with a #1 pick.

Criner, admittedly I haven't done much research but I think that's because I'm still picking up on guys who will be available even in the 2nd who are better prospects. IMO that would make 2 big reaches in a row.

Speaking of starting not one other pick stands the remote possibility of starting, even in the case of injury they would likely be down the line. The RB for instance. The CB is only a good pick if KJ, Harris, McCain, Carmichael AND McMannis all flop out. The TE may never even get a locker. The OT is 5th at best on the depth chart behind Brown, Winston, Newton and Butler. Just not my favorite beerlover effort.
The pass rush makes that defense and if Barwin and Reed get hurt you have Jesse Nading . Now I do think Brian B #50 can be a player and if Wade and staff think so then it's plan B time . There's no plug and play or shouldn't be anyway ... Kareem Jackson ... .
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Old 02-03-2012   #24
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

I think Nading is a good player. If the bpa happens to be an outside LB type player, so be it, but I'm fine with Nading as a back up. I didn't think he should have been cut last year because to me he looked better than Brooks Reed in the pre-season.
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Old 02-03-2012   #25
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

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I think Nading is a good player. If the bpa happens to be an outside LB type player, so be it, but I'm fine with Nading as a back up. I didn't think he should have been cut last year because to me he looked better than Brooks Reed in the pre-season.
talking about elite pass rushing attack with or without Mario Williams. Even though Texans maintained pressure once Mario went out for season there was a big drop-off in sacks & QB hurries remember 2011 losing streak? The Texans pass rush disappeared when Mario got hurt, took them a few games to adjust then fared well into the playoffs, or were the teams offensive lines really that good? if Rick & Co. cannot come to terms with Mr. Williams it creates a vacuum which I'm sure Wade Phillips will want/need to address. Remember last year before the Senior Bowl & a lot of us had Von Miller mocked to Texans early? Well all he did was become the defensive mvp of that all star game, impressed NFL coaches & brass, went to the Combine & flashed his amazing speed winding up in Denver as the #2 overall selection. Similar things with Aldon Smith, but there were some lingering off field issues that kept him off my Texan board, it seemed post draft by Wade Phillips & others comments the Texans would have taken him if available.

Another example of elite pass rusher is Jason Pierre-Paul who taken by Giants after beating that 19-0 New England Patriot team, Brady was sacked 5 times & hit another 9. Giants know pass rush kills. Denver defense received a huge overall with one of the best edge pass rushers & 49'ers have what is considered the best defense in football. All three have elite pass rushers, latest selected was Paul, but arguably the best value #15 so how in hell is would anybody object to Texans addressing pass rush with elite talent #26 if unable to pay Mario Williams a big free agency contract?

Vinny Curry is no more raw than a young Pierre-Paul or Aldon Smith, two big question marks for both players that proved unfounded. A natural pass rusher is born with god given talent & instincts. Applied in the right system with quality coaching I have no fear or doubts he would be able to add another athletic, speed pass rusher as OLB in Wade Phillips attack.

Should be adapt at playing both 4-3 and 3-4 in time
Has great size/speed combination
Very sound at stripping the football
Explosive tackler
Has been productive for 3 years
Gained 20 pounds of muscle this off season without losing speed
Great agility at turning corner around the tackle
Quick, quick, quick
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Old 02-03-2012   #26
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by beerlover View Post
talking about elite pass rushing attack with or without Mario Williams. Even though Texans maintained pressure once Mario went out for season there was a big drop-off in sacks & QB hurries remember 2011 losing streak? The Texans pass rush disappeared when Mario got hurt, took them a few games to adjust then fared well into the playoffs, or were the teams offensive lines really that good? if Rick & Co. cannot come to terms with Mr. Williams it creates a vacuum which I'm sure Wade Phillips will want/need to address. Remember last year before the Senior Bowl & a lot of us had Von Miller mocked to Texans early? Well all he did was become the defensive mvp of that all star game, impressed NFL coaches & brass, went to the Combine & flashed his amazing speed winding up in Denver as the #2 overall selection. Similar things with Aldon Smith, but there were some lingering off field issues that kept him off my Texan board, it seemed post draft by Wade Phillips & others comments the Texans would have taken him if available.

Another example of elite pass rusher is Jason Pierre-Paul who taken by Giants after beating that 19-0 New England Patriot team, Brady was sacked 5 times & hit another 9. Giants know pass rush kills. Denver defense received a huge overall with one of the best edge pass rushers & 49'ers have what is considered the best defense in football. All three have elite pass rushers, latest selected was Paul, but arguably the best value #15 so how in hell is would anybody object to Texans addressing pass rush with elite talent #26 if unable to pay Mario Williams a big free agency contract?

Vinny Curry is no more raw than a young Pierre-Paul or Aldon Smith, two big question marks for both players that proved unfounded. A natural pass rusher is born with god given talent & instincts. Applied in the right system with quality coaching I have no fear or doubts he would be able to add another athletic, speed pass rusher as OLB in Wade Phillips attack.

Should be adapt at playing both 4-3 and 3-4 in time
Has great size/speed combination
Very sound at stripping the football
Explosive tackler
Has been productive for 3 years
Gained 20 pounds of muscle this off season without losing speed
Great agility at turning corner around the tackle
Quick, quick, quick

I hear what you ar saying, but my only issue with that is: Are you drafting this guy to sit behind Brooks Reed or are you drafting this guy to play ahead of him?

There are issues with both of those outcomes.

It sounds nice to say draft him and let them compete in camp, but it's hard to actually get a a true competition in camp. Very rarely are starting jobs won during that time.

If we are looking to bolster OLB I would look at guys in later rounds. UNLESS, there was one on the board that was just head and shoulders above everyone else on the board.

If the guys on the board are about evenly rated I'd rather go with a position like WR or even gaurd or corner.
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Old 02-03-2012   #27
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

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I hear what you ar saying, but my only issue with that is: Are you drafting this guy to sit behind Brooks Reed or are you drafting this guy to play ahead of him?

There are issues with both of those outcomes.

It sounds nice to say draft him and let them compete in camp, but it's hard to actually get a a true competition in camp. Very rarely are starting jobs won during that time.

If we are looking to bolster OLB I would look at guys in later rounds. UNLESS, there was one on the board that was just head and shoulders above everyone else on the board.

If the guys on the board are about evenly rated I'd rather go with a position like WR or even gaurd or corner.

So who is gonna come in and start at #26 ?
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Old 02-03-2012   #28
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

[quote=Honoring Earl 34;1894313]
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The pass rush makes that defense and if Barwin and Reed get hurt you have Jesse Nading . Now I do think Brian B #50 can be a player and if Wade and staff think so then it's plan B time . There's no plug and play or shouldn't be anyway ... Kareem Jackson ... .
We'll just have to agree to disagree, I believe you pick up a guy in round 1 he should start AND be good. Picking the wrong player is a different issue....

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how in hell would anybody object to Texans addressing pass rush with elite talent #26 if unable to pay Mario Williams a big free agency contract?
Like this:

The most ferocious pass rush I've ever seen in Texans gear came on the backs of Watt, Reed and Barwin. Not and in NO way related to Mario Williams, so of course, who is the one looking for mega bucks? Mario but they've already replaced him.
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Old 02-03-2012   #29
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

[quote=TimeKiller;1894279]
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If he won't start and there are other players who will.......that's a wasted pick to me. I'd even rather see a CB than another LBer. And if he did start that would completely undermine the success of Barwin/Reed and derails any chance at them improving. Seen a few highlights of Curry, he's a gifted athlete, no doubt but practically any other position would be better served with a #1 pick.

Criner, admittedly I haven't done much research but I think that's because I'm still picking up on guys who will be available even in the 2nd who are better prospects. IMO that would make 2 big reaches in a row.

Speaking of starting not one other pick stands the remote possibility of starting, even in the case of injury they would likely be down the line. The RB for instance. The CB is only a good pick if KJ, Harris, McCain, Carmichael AND McMannis all flop out. The TE may never even get a locker. The OT is 5th at best on the depth chart behind Brown, Winston, Newton and Butler. Just not my favorite beerlover effort.
There will not be a corner at #26 or later that will start for us. Keep in mind that Brandon Harris was considered a first round by some & Smith traded back up into 2nd to pick him. He has seen little action. If you prefer a CB over a LB, cool.
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Old 02-03-2012   #30
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

[quote=TimeKiller;1894520]
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We'll just have to agree to disagree, I believe you pick up a guy in round 1 he should start AND be good. Picking the wrong player is a different issue....
Unless we're talking elite talent..... depending on the draft, I think that's top 10-15 players.... a 1st rounder should not "expect" to start unless he's going to a bad team.. picking 20 or so, he's probably not going to a bad team.

With no Mario, Brooks Reed will start opposite Connor. The new kid will be able to rotate in & build up his stamina.
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Old 02-03-2012   #31
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

[quote=thunderkyss;1894614]
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Unless we're talking elite talent..... depending on the draft, I think that's top 10-15 players.... a 1st rounder should not "expect" to start unless he's going to a bad team.. picking 20 or so, he's probably not going to a bad team.

With no Mario, Brooks Reed will start opposite Connor. The new kid will be able to rotate in & build up his stamina.
case in point, Jason Pierre-Paul. in fact I had to look this up, did not have one start in 2010 his rookie year. didn't have his first sack (2) until week 12, ending with 4.5. Year two he started 12 games, escalating his sack total up to 16.5. a work in progress, yes but worth the investment? most defiantly. now let me ask this question again, would we as Texan fans, not be happy with similar production out of our #1 pick? Combined with core group of outstanding young players, one can imagine it bodes well for future success.

It's impossible until Draft Day, when Texans selection is called to project who the best player available will be. It's much easier to say what the biggest needs are & that those have to be addressed early or at least often, but I think this mock accomplishes that, WR Juron Criner will compete for starting minutes with his experience, size, intelligence & playmaker ability. Josh Norman fills Jason Allen shoes in CB rotation, he has starting corner ability & is a ballhawk with elite size. Isaiah Pead would be Texan new returner, offers exceptional value providing RB depth. Levy Adcock is the kind of OT/LG prospect Texans covet. Akiem Hicks is a low risk, high reward big inside body to bolster the DL. David Paulson is a red zone target, special teams demon & the all around complete TE you normally find in Wisconsin Tight Ends.
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Old 02-04-2012   #32
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

I think at this point we should be drafting BPA, and if thats an OLB so be it. IN my mind that fastest way to become an elite team is adding as many top flight players as possible. Reaching for need is an easy way to become mediocre. In a perfect world there's a player at 26 that is one of the BPAs and he fills a need.

BTW, I like what I saw in Curry at the SB practices and in the game. He'll be a good player. Another guy that could be interesting is Perry from USC if he were to fall a bit.
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Old 02-04-2012   #33
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

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So who is gonna come in and start at #26 ?
This draft will be unlike any other draft we've ever had. We won't be drafting to fill an obvious hole as in years past.

Even if we pick a WR with the 26th pick, it's not guaranteed he'd automatically step right in and supplant K.W. Unless one of the top 3-4 WR falls to #26, I'd be all for trading out of the first round and picking up additional picks for depth or to use as bargaining chips.
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Old 02-04-2012   #34
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

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This draft will be unlike any other draft we've ever had. We won't be drafting to fill an obvious hole as in years past.

Even if we pick a WR with the 26th pick, it's not guaranteed he'd automatically step right in and supplant K.W. Unless one of the top 3-4 WR falls to #26, I'd be all for trading out of the first round and picking up additional picks for depth or to use as bargaining chips.
Even still.. you put your best players on the field. If K.W. has better grasp of the play-book, you go with his sure hands. Let the rook play spot duty 'till we are sure he can contribute. Bryant Johnson is a good example, 1st round pick in 2003 (17th overall) but didn't work out.

The biggest difference between this draft & others, unless we cut KDub, Sean Cody, Wade Smith..... our 1st round pick is going to have to earn a starter position.
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Old 02-04-2012   #35
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

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Even still.. you put your best players on the field. If K.W. has better grasp of the play-book, you go with his sure hands. Let the rook play spot duty 'till we are sure he can contribute. Bryant Johnson is a good example, 1st round pick in 2003 (17th overall) but didn't work out.

The biggest difference between this draft & others, unless we cut KDub, Sean Cody, Wade Smith..... our 1st round pick is going to have to earn a starter position.
I agree TK except for maybe WR2 (JJ) & as you say Walter should get most reps.
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Old 02-04-2012   #36
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

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Even still.. you put your best players on the field. If K.W. has better grasp of the play-book, you go with his sure hands. Let the rook play spot duty 'till we are sure he can contribute. Bryant Johnson is a good example, 1st round pick in 2003 (17th overall) but didn't work out.

The biggest difference between this draft & others, unless we cut KDub, Sean Cody, Wade Smith..... our 1st round pick is going to have to earn a starter position.
Another thing is talented players are gonna want more money when their contract is up . This will be Barwin and Cushings 4th year , who you gonna pay first ? You have to fortify your strengths while working on your weekness .
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Old 02-04-2012   #37
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

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Another thing is talented players are gonna want more money when their contract is up . This will be Barwin and Cushings 4th year , who you gonna pay first ? You have to fortify your strengths while working on your weekness .
2013 begins new tv deal and cap should rise immensely. Signing these players should not be difficult.
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Old 02-04-2012   #38
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

without turning this into anything other than good mock draft discussion, in regards to this whole should Texans make the investment in Mario Williams to remain part of this team thing, along with other eventual free agents is it must first be determined who the core players will be on this team moving forward. Is he or isn't he that is the question, show me some
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Old 02-04-2012   #39
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

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Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34 View Post
They won because of the defense and if Mario leaves who will be the backup .
Oh, you want to draft a backup in the first round instead of a starter? That's cool.
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Old 02-04-2012   #40
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Default Re: Texan Post 2012 Senior Bowl Mock Draft

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Oh, you want to draft a backup in the first round instead of a starter? That's cool.
No ... I want depth , he can win the job if he wants .
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