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Old 02-01-2012   #21
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Default Re: TexansChick talking salary cap with Andrew Brandt of National Football Post

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
I'm surprised at the reaction on this board to Meachem. I think he's a heck of a player. Still, I trust our scouts, coaches, and Rick to make the call. But, I'd say Meachem is certainly a significant upgrade over Jacoby... perhaps that's what you mean by "viable replacement". Meachem has made big plays in the passing game every year he's been in the league. One year, he had 9 TDs. Clearly, that's production Jacoby hasn't approached matching.

The main point is that we need a threat at WR and those guys are available in FA.
I'm not negative about meacham, i just watch him enough to know that he's a spot player. Not to mention that schaub cant throw deep anyway. In regards to mario and that #2 wr, the texans can cut enough guys who are underperfoming to fit mario,meyers,foster, and a free agent wr under and be fine.

If we're saying that mario will cost 11m per in some capacity, they can make his cap hit cap friendly with bonus money. Not to mention cody,walters to name a few can give the team back 6m in space. If they have any reservations about schaub being ready to start the season, they could drop his salary to vet min and he can make it up based on starts this season and create another 6m. 20-25m in cap room can get you alot of players. It also allow you to redo some deals of the younger players you want to pay also.

Back to this wr and cb upgrade to which I agree. The guys I'm looking at are guys Like steve smith,eddie royal and then draft a guy like alshon jeffery of the gamecocks. In terms of cb 2, marshall is a very good name and this past year he signed a 1 yr 3m deal. Now he didn't play great, but he played well enough and through his history to be paid 5m per yr as a corner. Ok so lets say steve smith and marshall are both 5m per year type players which is where I have them both, we're talking 2.5m per yr in bonus and 2.5m in salary over 5 yrs. So 5 yrs, 25m with 12.5m bonus thats prorated over those 5 yrs. Thats 5m per year against the cap for those 2 players. Thats not hard to do and still keep mario. They could still draft Jeffery in the 1st and work him in as the 3rd wr. When andre misses his 2 or 3 games, he moves in as the 2 and smith is your 1. Now if after this you still don't see keeping williams, then we know why, because its not the money as an issue.
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Old 02-01-2012   #22
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Default Re: TexansChick talking salary cap with Andrew Brandt of National Football Post

as for mario, i have to put it this way. we were the number 2 defense ... barwin had 11 sacks and reed had 6, and our line was exceptional. awesome!

now if i told you that barwin would have 11 sacks next season at WOLB, reed would have 6 sacks next season as a backup, and wade will introduce a player who will put up 17 sacks as a 3 down defender and directly impact and improve the front 3 ... how much do you offer him? i dont know about yall, but i would LOVE to have that kind of productivity on defense.

i caution those wanting to throw mario away ... have yall forgotten most of the past decade? are you sure you want to let someone else have our all-pro 26 year old physical freak? a lot of folks are praising our brand new defensive influence on one hand and want to use the other to throw away the most talented player on that side of the ball. i would love to know what the mario threads look like to outsiders, though the nonsense isnt exclusive. champ bailey is too old, forte got injured and should be traded, peyton manning is just a guy now ... apparently all-pro's grow on trees.
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Old 02-01-2012   #23
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Default Re: TexansChick talking salary cap with Andrew Brandt of National Football Post

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It also never had Wade Phillips, Watt, Joseph, non-rookie healthy Barwin, Manning, or a 2nd legitimate starting saftey.

If you're just comparing to 2010, add in a healthier Ryans and a Cushing that knew what he was doing.

I'm pretty sure all that stuff is worth more than Mario.

As to your hypothetical, it depends what's behind them. CB is still a weakness. Certainly the drop off between 1st and 2nd CB is bigger than the dropoff between 1st and 2nd LB. But that just means that Cushing, Ryans, and Barwin are better than Kareem Jackson. That doesn't mean Joseph is better than Mario.

The NFL is going to value Mario much more than Joseph. A number of good, but not all-pro, pass rushers got deals bigger than Joseph's last year. To me that's the most objective metric.

If you agree that Joseph and Cushing are more valuable to our team but that Mario will cost much more to keep, then it seems like we are in agreement about what needs to happen. I realize that I'm not in the majority regarding my assessment of Mario's play since mid-October of 2009. Still, I'm not trying to convince people he's extremely overrated (which I do believe). I'd just like people to agree that he will be a bad value for the Texans moving forward.
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Old 02-01-2012   #24
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Default Re: TexansChick talking salary cap with Andrew Brandt of National Football Post

Quickly devolved to another Mario thread. It would have been helpful if Stephanie had asked the guy what his source was for Texans cap numbers. If he knew that team had about $5m under cap how would he not know exactly what Williams cap was? Seems another John McClain type expert who did not establish his sources. Anyone can throw numbers around & unfortunately this interview did nothing to assist me.
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Old 02-01-2012   #25
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Default Re: TexansChick talking salary cap with Andrew Brandt of National Football Post

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A few things:

1. Mario isn't our best defensive player... Cushing or Joseph is. After that, we can have an argument (J.J.Watt, Antonio Smith, Mario Williams, Connor Barwin). Being the first pick in the draft doesn't make him the best player on the team.
Cushing becomes a pass rusher with Mario out. Keep Mario in the game & Cushing is allowed to freelance. You're right, Cushing is our best defensive player hands down. Mario is our best pass rusher.... hands down.
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2. Mario is exposed. He is a unrestricted free agent. His franchise number is prohibitive and the Texans are up against the cap. If they sign Mario to a big deal this off-season, they won't do anything significant in free agency and then they will lose some key players next off-season.
Hold your horses. Mario isn't a FA yet, unrestricted or otherwise. Mario is a Houston Texans & will be a Houston Texans (unexposed) if Rick Smith does his due diligence prior to the second or third week in March.
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3. The team lets Mario walk to remain cap healthy, not to sign Robert Meachem.

4. Meachem has averaged about 16 yards per catch in his career and has proven very capable of making big plays. He has elite speed can stretch the defense. I'm not opposed to drafting a WR, but I am suggesting the Texans need to add a veteran WR with attributes like Meachem's. I'll trust the Texans' pro scouts to determine exactly who they like for that role.
It's hard to see it now.... I know. But Meachum won't be anything more than a more expensive Jacoby Jones... everything you described here, is Jacoby Jones. A 3 WR at best. He's not a #2, neither is Meachum.
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5. I don't see the Texans spending the money it would take to sign Wayne or Jackson, particularly Wayne, given his age. I'm assuming the Saints will keep Colston or Meachem and I assume it would be Colston. Also, Colston doesn't have the speed I think the Texans need to add at WR.
Ya damn right their going to keep the 7th rounder over that 1st rounder. It's about production. Robert Meachum is the 5th most productive receiver in New Orleans, behind Colston, Graham, Henderson, & Moore. Jacoby is also an excellent blocker. Yes, excellent.
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Old 02-01-2012   #26
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Default Re: TexansChick talking salary cap with Andrew Brandt of National Football Post

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It also never had Wade Phillips, Watt, Joseph, non-rookie healthy Barwin, Manning, or a 2nd legitimate starting saftey.

If you're just comparing to 2010, add in a healthier Ryans and a Cushing that knew what he was doing.

I'm pretty sure all that stuff is worth more than Mario.
Very good post.
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The NFL is going to value Mario much more than Joseph. A number of good, but not all-pro, pass rushers got deals bigger than Joseph's last year. To me that's the most objective metric.
He's a pass rusher, one of the best in the league.. pass rushers are valued more, but that doesn't make him our best defensive player.
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Old 02-01-2012   #27
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Default Re: TexansChick talking salary cap with Andrew Brandt of National Football Post

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as for mario, i have to put it this way. we were the number 2 defense ... barwin had 11 sacks and reed had 6, and our line was exceptional. awesome!

now if i told you that barwin would have 11 sacks next season at WOLB, reed would have 6 sacks next season as a backup, and wade will introduce a player who will put up 17 sacks as a 3 down defender and directly impact and improve the front 3 ... how much do you offer him? i dont know about yall, but i would LOVE to have that kind of productivity on defense.

i caution those wanting to throw mario away ... have yall forgotten most of the past decade? are you sure you want to let someone else have our all-pro 26 year old physical freak? a lot of folks are praising our brand new defensive influence on one hand and want to use the other to throw away the most talented player on that side of the ball. i would love to know what the mario threads look like to outsiders, though the nonsense isnt exclusive. champ bailey is too old, forte got injured and should be traded, peyton manning is just a guy now ... apparently all-pro's grow on trees.
Jj Watt, & Brooks Reed are wild cards. We have no idea how they are handling their business this offseason & we have no idea how they are going to come in & play next season. Chances are they'll be as good or better than they were this year, but there is always that sophomore slump to worry about.

The offenses we will play next season are going to be worlds better than the ones we played this season.

I'll take that 17 sack freak you got there & look to repeat as one of the better defenses in the NFL.

2011 was the first season in the Kubiak era that ever recorded a coverage sack.
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Old 02-02-2012   #28
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Default Re: TexansChick talking salary cap with Andrew Brandt of National Football Post

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Quickly devolved to another Mario thread. It would have been helpful if Stephanie had asked the guy what his source was for Texans cap numbers. If he knew that team had about $5m under cap how would he not know exactly what Williams cap was? Seems another John McClain type expert who did not establish his sources. Anyone can throw numbers around & unfortunately this interview did nothing to assist me.
Hard for it not to since he consumed roughly 16% of last year's cap and is about to become a free agent. What happens with Mario will directly impact the Texans cap much more than any move in Texans history... other than dumping Charlie Casserly.
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Old 02-02-2012   #29
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Default Re: TexansChick talking salary cap with Andrew Brandt of National Football Post

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Jj Watt, & Brooks Reed are wild cards. We have no idea how they are handling their business this offseason & we have no idea how they are going to come in & play next season. Chances are they'll be as good or better than they were this year, but there is always that sophomore slump to worry about.

The offenses we will play next season are going to be worlds better than the ones we played this season.

I'll take that 17 sack freak you got there & look to repeat as one of the better defenses in the NFL.

2011 was the first season in the Kubiak era that ever recorded a coverage sack.
Who is the 17 sack freak you are referring to? Are you adding two of his years together? If you add up all over 2009 and 2010 that does get you to 17.5.

Mario has had two seasons out of his six where he has broken the 10 sack threshold. His best season, 14, was in 2007. Maybe he will produce like that under Wade. According to the tiny sample (5 games), he looked like he could have a big sack season. That is, unless, you weigh in the fact that he hasn't had a healthy season since 2008 and has finished the year on I.R. the past two years... If you project that pattern to continue, he's not worth a bag of oranges.
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Old 02-02-2012   #30
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Default Re: TexansChick talking salary cap with Andrew Brandt of National Football Post

I hate agreeing with Dale, but I definitely do here.

Keeping Mario around is simply too cost prohibitive when considering the other players that need to be kept around over the next 2 years. Ideally, you'd like to keep Mario. He's a good player. But, when you consider it would cost you some of Arian Foster, Chris Myers, Joel Dreesen, Duane Brown, Glover Quin, Connor Barwin, Matt Schaub, etc. plus whatever potential additions you could make (i.e. WR, OLB, OL/DL depth) he becomes more expendable.

It's not Mario vs. one guy; it's Mario vs. a lot of those guys. And he's simply not productive enough to warrant the money when it is put in that perspective.

Regarding Meachem, I don't dislike him, but there are other guys I prefer more. I still think we need to add a WR both via FA and a high draft pick. So I would be happy with any combination of Meachem/Douglas/Wayne/Garcon and Wright/Floyd/Sanu/Marvin Jones. You're not getting any top flight guys (i.e. Vincent Jackson, Bowe, Colston, Blackmon), but you're adding a couple of very good WR to compliment your great WR with the hopes that your draft pick eventually evolves into a #1.
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Old 02-02-2012   #31
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Default Re: TexansChick talking salary cap with Andrew Brandt of National Football Post

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Keeping Mario around is simply too cost prohibitive when considering the other players that need to be kept around over the next 2 years. Ideally, you'd like to keep Mario. He's a good player. But, when you consider it would cost you some of Arian Foster, Chris Myers, Joel Dreesen, Duane Brown, Glover Quin, Connor Barwin, Matt Schaub, etc. plus whatever potential additions you could make (i.e. WR, OLB, OL/DL depth) he becomes more expendable.
This is not true. Everything you've heard/read suggesting such is speculation & supposition. We don't know what Mario's 2011 cap number is. We don't know what the 2012 cap number will be. We don't know what it will take to sign Mario, we don't know what it will take to sign Arian, Myers, or Brisiel. We don't know how much Mario wants to stay in Houston & we don't know how badly Bob (& most importantly Wade) wants Mario to be here.

The only thing to worry about now, is the 2012 season as the salary cap for 2013 is "supposed to" increase significantly.

If signing Mario will cost us Foster, Myers, a true #2WR... no one here would argue that we should let Mario walk. But if we can sign Mario, Arian, Chris, & find a suitable #2WR (either in the draft or FA)... then why are we even having this conversation.

The reason, is that there are a few that want you to believe it's Mario or whatever.

Notice you have not seen anyone say, "screw it, sign Mario, cut Foster/Myers, we don't really need them."
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Old 02-02-2012   #32
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Default Re: TexansChick talking salary cap with Andrew Brandt of National Football Post

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Hard for it not to since he consumed roughly 16% of last year's cap and is about to become a free agent. What happens with Mario will directly impact the Texans cap much more than any move in Texans history... other than dumping Charlie Casserly.
I'll trump your Casserly with signing Boseli and praying he would get on the field.Yeah you are prob right as I re-read while tyoing and you said cap not Texans future.
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