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Old 01-18-2012   #21
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Default Re: rmartin65 Post-Season Mock

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
I have pushed for a big nasty but do not say it's a must. I believe a big NT that is in shape (not a Hainesworth fattie) can absorb more of the damage received than a Mitchell type. I don't see either of our NTs putting much pressure on QB. Those that can shut down the run AND disrupt the QB are rare imo. I really want a NT to tie up 2-3 blockers every play, if he can collapse the pocket even better. Just don't see Cody or Mitchell doing that.
Again, we don't ask our NT to tie up 2-3 blockers. That's what everyone seems to be stuck on. Wade runs a non-traditional 3-4 where you don't ask your front to take double teams every play. You get big guys who can penetrate and get after the Quarterback.
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Old 01-18-2012   #22
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Default Re: rmartin65 Post-Season Mock

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Originally Posted by WolverineFan View Post
Again, we don't ask our NT to tie up 2-3 blockers. That's what everyone seems to be stuck on. Wade runs a non-traditional 3-4 where you don't ask your front to take double teams every play. You get big guys who can penetrate and get after the Quarterback.
Sorry not giving in on this. Neither of our NTs can take up double teams well play after play. They can't physically do that. My understanding of Phillips comments are different than yours. I went thru this type of debate for years with posters saying "You don't need bigger backs to get thousand yards in Denver's system". We had pages and pages pro & con. Yet we get Foster and his first full year he leads NFL; no other Texan back got even close. Then we get Tate and Derek Ward.
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Old 01-18-2012   #23
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Default Re: rmartin65 Post-Season Mock

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
I've got to agree with Wolverine here. Wade's one gap system relies more on quickness and penetration than just stuffing the line of scrimmage. In the past Wade has always worked with what he has, he does modify his system to fit the talent that he's got to work with so I think he can go either way on the NT issue. I think a guy like Worthy or Brandon Thompson, 2 guys with size and quickness would work well for Wade more so than the huge 2 gap space eaters like Poe or Ta'amu. Josh Chapman is another guy that's big without being huge and strong as an ox that would work in Wade's 1 gap system.


Has anyone actually seen Poe play, in person at the game, on television, or in game internet video? I can't find anything on this guy when I do a Google search. I see lots of interview and weight lifting but no game footage. Could someone please post a link if you've found some game tape of him playing, I'd really like to see what he can do. I can't support a 1st round pick on a player I've never seen play.
Here is a direct quote from Wade that shows he works with what he has in regards to the Nose:


ďIt seems simple, but if youíve got a great big guy that canít penetrate, like some of the guys Iíve had, then you let him play right in the middle of the (center). If youíve got a guy thatís quick, you let him stunt. If youíve got a guy thatís strong, you let him power one side or the other of the center. Thatís just the way you coach football. We can take a guy that has good ability Ė and I think both the guys we have have real good ability Ė and get him to play well.Ē

http://blog.houstontexans.com/2011/0...acks-up-words/

Posted in May by Scurfield.

I think offensive needs will outweigh defensive in next draft so I do not anticipate seeing a NT taken before round 4 of any shape or size.
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Old 01-18-2012   #24
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Default Re: rmartin65 Post-Season Mock

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Here is a direct quote from Wade that shows he works with what he has in regards to the Nose:


ďIt seems simple, but if youíve got a great big guy that canít penetrate, like some of the guys Iíve had, then you let him play right in the middle of the (center). If youíve got a guy thatís quick, you let him stunt. If youíve got a guy thatís strong, you let him power one side or the other of the center. Thatís just the way you coach football. We can take a guy that has good ability Ė and I think both the guys we have have real good ability Ė and get him to play well.Ē

http://blog.houstontexans.com/2011/0...acks-up-words/

Posted in May by Scurfield.

I think offensive needs will outweigh defensive in next draft so I do not anticipate seeing a NT taken before round 4 of any shape or size.
That quote by Wade, especially the last sentence, just reinforces what I've been saying all along. Take the BEST PLAYER. Not the biggest player.

Why hamstring yourself with a less talented player? Why take a good big guy who Wade can get good play from when you can take a better semi-big guy who Wade can get better play from?

Talent is more important than weight, especially when you have a coach like Wade who can maximize that talent by using it correctly.
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Old 01-18-2012   #25
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Default Re: rmartin65 Post-Season Mock

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Sorry not giving in on this. Neither of our NTs can take up double teams well play after play. They can't physically do that. My understanding of Phillips comments are different than yours. I went thru this type of debate for years with posters saying "You don't need bigger backs to get thousand yards in Denver's system". We had pages and pages pro & con. Yet we get Foster and his first full year he leads NFL; no other Texan back got even close. Then we get Tate and Derek Ward.
Just because you were right about a bigger back does not mean that every position on the field needs to be filled with bigger guys.

Here's a question. Did Foster lead the NFL because of his size or because of his ability? His size is definitely a contributing factor, but it would be outrageous to say that it is THE reason.
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Old 01-19-2012   #26
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Default Re: rmartin65 Post-Season Mock

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
I've got to agree with Wolverine here. Wade's one gap system relies more on quickness and penetration than just stuffing the line of scrimmage. In the past Wade has always worked with what he has, he does modify his system to fit the talent that he's got to work with so I think he can go either way on the NT issue. I think a guy like Worthy or Brandon Thompson, 2 guys with size and quickness would work well for Wade more so than the huge 2 gap space eaters like Poe or Ta'amu. Josh Chapman is another guy that's big without being huge and strong as an ox that would work in Wade's 1 gap system.


Has anyone actually seen Poe play, in person at the game, on television, or in game internet video? I can't find anything on this guy when I do a Google search. I see lots of interview and weight lifting but no game footage. Could someone please post a link if you've found some game tape of him playing, I'd really like to see what he can do. I can't support a 1st round pick on a player I've never seen play.
I've been trying to calm down people from day one that Wade can go many ways as far as NT is concerned - big or small; but it would never hurt to see if we can actually improve a position (if there's one in the draft).

I'm not endorsing Poe or any DL, but there are a few youtube videos out there.
It takes a while to search.
Go to youtube and start searching for memphis.
Next check out their opponents the last two years and search youtube for their games.
For Memphis, I found Miss. St., SMU, and Houston to start with.

Poe isn't a floppy kind of guy as one would expect, but he doesn't look like a first rounder to me either (on first impression.)

I noticed a play where they tripled-team him, but then there were also plays they beat him one-on-one with the Guard.
Yeah, these are highlights from other teams, but you can't help but wonder when they ran straight at him or near him; it's a little troublesome when you're talking about SMU and UH (the UH game was from the year before, without Case Keenum at QB).

BTW, I saw him pretty much at 43 UT (not NT).

I was disappointed that his strength didn't quite show up on the field (obviously pad level is a concern).
On the other hand, he does have a very good first step and burst (when he can time it right) even to be effective on a stunt - which is difficult for a big man.

It's weird because what I thought I would see (a big NT who eat up space) didn't materialize as much as a penetrator (that I didn't expect to see).
I think the dude can be quick if the coaches and the training learn him to be consistent at it.

(I don't know who said it, maybe John Madden, if the guy can do it one time, you can teach him to do it again.)

Perhaps Martin can tell us more about what he's seen?
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Old 01-20-2012   #27
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Default Re: rmartin65 Post-Season Mock

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Originally Posted by bah007 View Post
Just because you were right about a bigger back does not mean that every position on the field needs to be filled with bigger guys.

Here's a question. Did Foster lead the NFL because of his size or because of his ability? His size is definitely a contributing factor, but it would be outrageous to say that it is THE reason.
I think Foster was good not only because of his abilities to see a cut back lane or a hole but to have the power to rip past tacklers and out of their tackles. His bulk also allowed him to hold up better to blows (same for linemen).

You need to pause and read or remember threads about WRs, TEs, LBs and DBs being bigger and faster. It is not just RBs. Remember all the posts about Chris Myers and his size? He has developed into a better player as he matured in the system but we still get calls for a bigger center. If you placed a poll Myers over a 310lb center with equal skills who'd get most votes? Myers advantage is his knowledge.

I never said a bigger NT would be the better choice than a better player at a smaller size. I do say all things reasonably the same, bigger is usually better. For example, I championed 5'10" Brandon Harris over Prince Amukamara 6' 2 206. Talent over size.
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Old 01-20-2012   #28
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Default Re: rmartin65 Post-Season Mock

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I've been trying to calm down people from day one that Wade can go many ways as far as NT is concerned - big or small; but it would never hurt to see if we can actually improve a position (if there's one in the draft).

I'm not endorsing Poe or any DL, but there are a few youtube videos out there.
It takes a while to search.
Go to youtube and start searching for memphis.
Next check out their opponents the last two years and search youtube for their games.
For Memphis, I found Miss. St., SMU, and Houston to start with.

Poe isn't a floppy kind of guy as one would expect, but he doesn't look like a first rounder to me either (on first impression.)

I noticed a play where they tripled-team him, but then there were also plays they beat him one-on-one with the Guard.
Yeah, these are highlights from other teams, but you can't help but wonder when they ran straight at him or near him; it's a little troublesome when you're talking about SMU and UH (the UH game was from the year before, without Case Keenum at QB).

BTW, I saw him pretty much at 43 UT (not NT).

I was disappointed that his strength didn't quite show up on the field (obviously pad level is a concern).
On the other hand, he does have a very good first step and burst (when he can time it right) even to be effective on a stunt - which is difficult for a big man.

It's weird because what I thought I would see (a big NT who eat up space) didn't materialize as much as a penetrator (that I didn't expect to see).
I think the dude can be quick if the coaches and the training learn him to be consistent at it.

(I don't know who said it, maybe John Madden, if the guy can do it one time, you can teach him to do it again.)

Perhaps Martin can tell us more about what he's seen?
Same evaluation on Poe when I started pushing him. Agree he is not a first round BUT will probably be drafted there as a team will not want to chance losing him. Agree also he needs NFL training as most college players at all positions do. Texans would be perfect as he could learn behind Cody (whom i think as really done well all things considered.) The Nose has dropped on my board as you can tell from my most recent mock. Poe is a better penetrator than many will think. Same with my new guy Mister Cobble.
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