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Old 10-06-2005   #141
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We aren't arguing over TJ's job.

What most of us are saying is why pass up a proven playmaker.....NCAA RECORD FOR FORCED FUMBLES.

We need a playmaker in our front seven and yet when an opportunity to get one....we pass up b/c he played in a 4-3.....yet draft a DT who played in one as well. :brickwall
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Old 10-06-2005   #142
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Gino Toretta was a proven playmaker in college as well.

Should I run down a list of other examples of players that excelled in college but proved that doesn't guarantee anything in the NFL?
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Old 10-06-2005   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas
Just so you non beleivers can test it. Buy Madden 06. Create a 99 Overall DT. Throw him on the line. Then watch the stats after each game and notice he doesnt place in the top 50 the whole season for tackles/sacks/fumble recovery average, but yet he still makes the Pro-Bowl. My Point is like what has already been said, his job is to tie up linemen and open opportunities for the LB's.

There's an awesome way to get a real life indication on a player's impact...
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Old 10-06-2005   #144
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Actually I did that and he had 20 sacks coming off the bench.
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Old 10-06-2005   #145
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Originally Posted by Texas_Thrill
My issue more lies with the Texans logic that was put out there of why we didn't draft DJ. Because he played in a 4-3 in college he couldn't play in a 3-4 in the pros. But then we draft a DT who played in a 4-3?
That wasn't the logic. At Texas DJ was asked to drop into coverage more than pass rush. When he did get sacks etc. it was as a blitzer rather than a pass rusher--something Casserly makes a big distinction on. DJ was also noted to have trouble getting off blocks which spells more trouble in a 3-4 system than a 4-3 where there is an extra guy to soak up blocks in front. Basically because of the lack of pass rushing moves he wouldn't have played OLB here. At ILB the supposedly concerned with his ability to stop the run. I totally understood the concerns about DJ playing OLB here. Where the Texans lost me was picking up Greenwood who seems like a coverage speed not necessarily physical run stuffing ILB--hmmm sounds like DJ. But anyway the logic wasn't just that he came from a 4-3--they thought it out or mis-thought it out much more than that.
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Old 10-06-2005   #146
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What's his face... has really turned around the Chief's defence... Gee just 60+points, given up in last two games.. Wow did we miss having what's his face, how will we live.
...wow, only one player on KC's defense instead of eleven
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Old 10-06-2005   #147
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The freaking draft has happened already! Why are we still contemplating this?
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Old 10-07-2005   #148
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Originally Posted by wrestler4life
The freaking draft has happened already! Why are we still contemplating this?
Derrick Johnson is a possibly one of the best players at his position in just his rookie season. At the same position the Texans sorely need playmakers.

I don't think anything is being contemplated. The point is... management made another personnel mistake. One of many.
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Old 10-07-2005   #149
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Wong (3 games) 26 total tackles, 9 assists, 1 sack

DJ (4 games) 31 total tackles, 4 assists, 1 sack, 1 fumble recovery

I don't know how this organization can go on without DJ...Do some realize we had our LB's in place before the draft? We had already signed Greenwood and do you think anyone anywhere thought that DJ would have fallen to us?
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Old 10-07-2005   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the wonger need food
Derrick Johnson is a possibly one of the best players at his position in just his rookie season. At the same position the Texans sorely need playmakers.

I don't think anything is being contemplated. The point is... management made another personnel mistake. One of many.
I think managment's intentions were to draft a playmaker along the defensive line (where a playmaker was needed more than at LB). When you compare Derrick's to Travis' stats coming out of college, I think they accomplished that (because before the draft, it's all you have to go on)...

Derrick - 19 TFLs, 2 sacks, 8 QB hits
Travis - 18 TFLs, 2.5 sacks, 12 QB hits

Now if you want to label Travis a "mistake" after 3 games, by all means do so.
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Old 10-07-2005   #151
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Originally Posted by texan279
Wong (3 games) 26 total tackles, 9 assists, 1 sack

DJ (4 games) 31 total tackles, 4 assists, 1 sack, 1 fumble recovery

I don't know how this organization can go on without DJ...Do some realize we had our LB's in place before the draft? We had already signed Greenwood and do you think anyone anywhere thought that DJ would have fallen to us?
Well said. It bares repeating... We had our LB's in place before the draft. Why blow your wad on a player that would be considered redundant at that time and not fill a needed role when there were players on the board who did.

Not taking anything away from DJ. The kid is talented. But our D-line would still be without depth or a future, and we'd have another high paid LB working behind what has so far been a marginally effective front 3.
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Old 10-07-2005   #152
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DJ is a good player but like TJ they are still rookies . Its not like DJ is the best player on the 85 Bears defense .
To call DJ the best at his position is crazy . Some act like he's on the some line as Lawrence Taylor . What if DJ is doing the same as Sharper and making tackles 4 yards up the field . I would take Ware over DJ right now .
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Old 10-07-2005   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William.carter
Well said. It bares repeating... We had our LB's in place before the draft. Why blow your wad on a player that would be considered redundant at that time and not fill a needed role when there were players on the board who did.

Not taking anything away from DJ. The kid is talented. But our D-line would still be without depth or a future, and we'd have another high paid LB working behind what has so far been a marginally effective front 3.
This is part of the problem... "we had our linebackers in place before the draft." Their evaluations concluded that they had enough talent at linebacker and they obviously do not.

If they had their LB's in place as you stated, why did they sign Zeke Mereno after the draft? Why did they draft Pettway?
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Old 10-07-2005   #154
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Originally Posted by the wonger need food

If they had their LB's in place as you stated, why did they sign Zeke Mereno after the draft? Why did they draft Pettway?

Inexpensive DEPTH.
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Old 10-07-2005   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the wonger need food
This is part of the problem... "we had our linebackers in place before the draft." Their evaluations concluded that they had enough talent at linebacker and they obviously do not.

If they had their LB's in place as you stated, why did they sign Zeke Mereno after the draft? Why did they draft Pettway?
Using a first on Travis Johnson and then signing/drafting two other LBs tells me they recognized they needed help in both areas. But there was a higher priority in upgrading the defensive line.

Given the players at each position at the time, are you going to argue with this?
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Old 10-07-2005   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
Using a first on Travis Johnson and then signing/drafting two other LBs tells me they recognized they needed help in both areas. But there was a higher priority in upgrading the defensive line.

Given the players at each position at the time, are you going to argue with this?
Yes I will.

How many times have we heard the term "playmaker", especially when discussing the LB position in a 3-4. The Texans do not have a playmaker at any 4 of these positions. So your logic is to spend more money on a lineman to essentially clog up the middle when that money could have been spent on someone that makes plays and changes games.

The fact remains that DJ is immediately an impact player, in any system. TJ, is just a fat lineman whose job is to clog up the middle.
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Old 10-07-2005   #157
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Originally Posted by the wonger need food
Yes I will.

How many times have we heard the term "playmaker", especially when discussing the LB position in a 3-4. The Texans do not have a playmaker at any 4 of these positions. So your logic is to spend more money on a lineman to essentially clog up the middle when that money could have been spent on someone that makes plays and changes games.

The fact remains that DJ is immediately an impact player, in any system. TJ, is just a fat lineman whose job is to clog up the middle.
Based on their college statistics...

Derrick - 19 TFLs, 2 sacks, 8 QB hits
Travis - 18 TFLs, 2.5 sacks, 12 QB hits

How can you say the Texans didn't draft a playmaker along the defensive line? Oh that's right, you've got a ton of history (first 4 weeks of this season) to go on.
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Old 10-07-2005   #158
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Old 10-07-2005   #159
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Originally Posted by the wonger need food
Derrick Johnson is a possibly one of the best players at his position in just his rookie season. At the same position the Texans sorely need playmakers.

I don't think anything is being contemplated. The point is... management made another personnel mistake. One of many.
Hmm, he didn't look too good against Denver though, bit on fakes like there were steaks.

And fyi, Odell Thurmann is the best rookie ILB at the moment, not DJ.
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Old 10-07-2005   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
Gino Toretta was a proven playmaker in college as well.

Should I run down a list of other examples of players that excelled in college but proved that doesn't guarantee anything in the NFL?
How about a very recent example, Jason White QB at Oklahoma?
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