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Old 01-16-2012   #61
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Default Re: The Decisions Facing our Offense This Offseason

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Who said anything about over those guy's ? I said he's an elite QB .... Not comparing him to anyone. The results speak for themselves.

You read more into what I said than what I said.
Didn't you say that the only two elite QB's that are in the league were Brady and the other Manning and then clarify it as the guy who just beat GB??

That's excluding anyone else from the conversation.

Eli is good and I've said that for years while others always hated on the guy because the media always overly criticized the guy. He's been top 10 for years along with Schaub and Romo. This year he's been getting better and better though.

He is not on the level of his brother, Brees, or Rogers though.

All of those QB's have won SB's and killed this league with great stats year after year now. Eli may slowly be approaching, but he has to do it for one more season.

As far as results speaking for themselves, what results?? The fact that he beat GB in this week?? Did you forget that GB beat them in the regular season and the difference in their entire record the entire season? GB went 15-1 while the Giants barely got in the playoffs beating the Cowboys in week 17. They got hot at the right time and credit is due to them. However, Eli has a much better defense playing on the other side of him right now and that is difference in those "current results."
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Old 01-16-2012   #62
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Default Re: The Decisions Facing our Offense This Offseason

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I wouldn't say over those two, but he's shown he's on a par with them. I haven't been able to stand Eli since he came into the league, but you have to give credit where credit is due. He's earned it.
No, he isn't on par with them no matter how much all these band wagon media cats who have bashed him for years want to act like now. He has never put up elite numbers in this league consistently. His defense has the ability to really turn it on and play lights out at times in streaks. The Giants are a lot more of a "complete team" than the Packers when you compare their defense and their offense. THe Giants are the most complete team in the post season at this point on both sides of the ball actually.

I've listened to **** about Eli for years and defended Eli as well, and I laugh at how so many people are jumping on this guy's jock now. He's been unfairly criticized by the media for years because he's in NY where it's over the top and because he never could be as good as Peydon which he still isn't, but he has been top 10 just like Schaub for a long time, but every time he has a bad game it's overly criticized and always will be.

But to put him up there with Brees and Rogers all of a sudden when you know good and well you weren't saying that weeks ago is silly. Rogers and Brees have been unquestionably elite for years now.
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Old 01-16-2012   #63
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Default Re: The Decisions Facing our Offense This Offseason

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Where did you hear that?

I'm not doubting you; especially with the rumors that Peyton may be trade bait. It's just that's the first I've heard of him wanting to come here. If we can sign him for a reasonable amount, then I'm all for it.
Unfortunately, its going to look like I made this up because I can't find a quote, and I can't really pinpoint where I heard or read it. I'll keep searching though and see what I come up with.
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Old 01-16-2012   #64
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Default Re: The Decisions Facing our Offense This Offseason

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Unfortunately, its going to look like I made this up because I can't find a quote, and I can't really pinpoint where I heard or read it. I'll keep searching though and see what I come up with.
No worries. I was just curious.
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Old 01-17-2012   #65
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Default Re: The Decisions Facing our Offense This Offseason

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Didn't you say that the only two elite QB's that are in the league were Brady and the other Manning and then clarify it as the guy who just beat GB??
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Heck, look at the last four teams in the playoffs. Only one has an elite QB. Two teams with elite QBs lost this weekend, and one of them lost to Alex Smith!
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I'd have to say there are two elite QB's left in Brady and the other Manning .... Other than that , I agree with your post.
I was responding to DB's post saying that there was only One Elite QB remaining in the playoffs - Not "In the league". That's your words not mine .....
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Old 01-17-2012   #66
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Default Re: The Decisions Facing our Offense This Offseason

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I'd have to say there are two elite QB's left in Brady and the other Manning .... Other than that , I agree with your post.
A solid case can be made for Eli. I did not realize that he passed for almost 5000 yards this season. Impressive. 61 % completions and a 8.38 yard average, 29 TDs.

In my own mind, he's always hovered right below the elite level, but he's certainly putting up some numbers and if he can get a 2nd ring, it is what it is. He will be up there with Big Ben in that a good debate could be made to categorize him as 'elite'.

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He turns into Mark Bulger at best and that is not something that I want.

I really don't see how you could comment that two elite QB's lost yesterday either and make that as some sort of reasoning. Those two QB's you're talking about have won 2 out of the last 3 SB's and were both favorites to go to the SB this year in the NFC. Elite QB's don't win the SB every year, but one seems to be involved almost every year that wins it. There is also the best out of those elites that is still playing right now and that is Tom Brady. Brees made a come back drive to win, and there was 1:36 left on the clock unfortunately for him. Elite QB's drive this league.

You're right that it's hard to get one. We're in a great position right now to find one though, because we can be patient with Matt Schaub unless he gets hurt again. I'd make a big move if one were to be available though for a trade though. I'd trade the house to get one.
My point was that teams can make it to the AFC/NFC championships without elite QBs. Great teams can carry good and even average QBs, as long as those QBs don't make costly mistakes. Mentioning the losses by Brees and Rogers was also pointing out that having an elite QB, in and of itself, does not automatically mean that a team will win playoff games.

I do not expect Yates to have a Tom Brady ceiling. But, can he have an Alex Smith or Joe Flacco ceiling? It think that's a realistic potential based upon what he's done in his rookie season without an off-season or benefit of working with first teamers.
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Old 01-17-2012   #67
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Default Re: The Decisions Facing our Offense This Offseason

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I do not expect Yates to have a Tom Brady ceiling. But, can he have an Alex Smith or Joe Flacco ceiling? It think that's a realistic potential based upon what he's done in his rookie season without an off-season or benefit of working with first teamers.
Yes, I agree that he could have a Flacco or Alex Smith type of ceiling. But why on earth would we want that for our next starter. That's settling and being happy with "average" if that's the case, and yes you can win with a QB like that, but your team has to be clicking on all cylinders outside of that. I've been fairly happy to have Schaub the last few years even with some of his problems. We're in a nice position with Schaub right now to be patient though, and to look for a guy that might be that next big thing and go all out for him potentially if we can get him to groom him down the road. I don't want to be on any plan to where Yates is the guy that we're doing that for based off of what I saw and where I think his ceiling will be.

We went 1-4 in our last few games of this season under Yates. Remember that. We barely beat the Bengals and the Falcons with him as well. Against the Ravens, sure we were in the game, but that was soley based on Arian Foster going buck wild in that game. It was not because of any great passing of Yates. He put up VY type numbers in all of those other games for the most part as well when you look at the entire picture with him. We generated very little offense the entire time that Yates became the starter in the 5 or 6 games he was there.
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Old 01-17-2012   #68
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Default Re: The Decisions Facing our Offense This Offseason

all the mock drafts so far show like the #4 WR to drop to us so i dont think we are going WR in the first round

We should just get a badass WR in the FA if that happens unless we wanna movie up which we never do that
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Old 01-17-2012   #69
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Default Re: The Decisions Facing our Offense This Offseason

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No, he isn't on par with them no matter how much all these band wagon media cats who have bashed him for years want to act like now. He has never put up elite numbers in this league consistently. His defense has the ability to really turn it on and play lights out at times in streaks. The Giants are a lot more of a "complete team" than the Packers when you compare their defense and their offense. THe Giants are the most complete team in the post season at this point on both sides of the ball actually.

I've listened to **** about Eli for years and defended Eli as well, and I laugh at how so many people are jumping on this guy's jock now. He's been unfairly criticized by the media for years because he's in NY where it's over the top and because he never could be as good as Peydon which he still isn't, but he has been top 10 just like Schaub for a long time, but every time he has a bad game it's overly criticized and always will be.

But to put him up there with Brees and Rogers all of a sudden when you know good and well you weren't saying that weeks ago is silly. Rogers and Brees have been unquestionably elite for years now.
Here's some food for thought. Just the facts, ma'am. Eli also set a new record for TD passes in the 4th quarter this season. That's crunch time any way you want to look at it. As I stated earlier, I've never been an Eli fan and I'm still not. He's simply put up the numbers and I can't ignore them. Besides, he has a very good chance of winning his 2nd SB and that's, in large part, due to his 4th quarter performance.
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Old 01-17-2012   #70
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Default Re: The Decisions Facing our Offense This Offseason

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Yes, I agree that he could have a Flacco or Alex Smith type of ceiling. But why on earth would we want that for our next starter. That's settling and being happy with "average" if that's the case, and yes you can win with a QB like that, but your team has to be clicking on all cylinders outside of that. I've been fairly happy to have Schaub the last few years even with some of his problems. We're in a nice position with Schaub right now to be patient though, and to look for a guy that might be that next big thing and go all out for him potentially if we can get him to groom him down the road. I don't want to be on any plan to where Yates is the guy that we're doing that for based off of what I saw and where I think his ceiling will be.

We went 1-4 in our last few games of this season under Yates. Remember that. We barely beat the Bengals and the Falcons with him as well. Against the Ravens, sure we were in the game, but that was soley based on Arian Foster going buck wild in that game. It was not because of any great passing of Yates. He put up VY type numbers in all of those other games for the most part as well when you look at the entire picture with him. We generated very little offense the entire time that Yates became the starter in the 5 or 6 games he was there.
I don't think anyone in the world has an idea of what Yates' ceiling may or may not be. He showed a lot of moxie and confidence, but also showed nerves and a lack of experience. By year 3, as with most draft picks, we'll all have a much clearer idea of where Yates stands. When Schaub is healthy, he'll be back under center and Yates' will be #2. I think Leinart is a goner. Maybe we can trade him to Oakland for a couple of #1's and a 2nd or 3rd.
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Old 01-17-2012   #71
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Default Re: The Decisions Facing our Offense This Offseason

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I don't think anyone in the world has an idea of what Yates' ceiling may or may not be. He showed a lot of moxie and confidence, but also showed nerves and a lack of experience. By year 3, as with most draft picks, we'll all have a much clearer idea of where Yates stands. When Schaub is healthy, he'll be back under center and Yates' will be #2. I think Leinart is a goner. Maybe we can trade him to Oakland for a couple of #1's and a 2nd or 3rd.
We all know Kubiak's M.O. And if Kubiak is anything it's fair - at least he tries to be. He saw all the work Matty Hot-Tub put in trying to resurrect his career only to see it go down in flames before he'd played two complete quarters. So Kubes won't kick Leinart to the curb without giving him one more shot to earn the #2 job. I'm thinking Leinart and Yates go into camp 2a and 2b. Yates will have to beat Leinart out in camp to claim the #2 spot. If T.J. can do that, THEN Leinart is toast.
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Old 01-17-2012   #72
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Default Re: The Decisions Facing our Offense This Offseason

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I don't think anyone in the world has an idea of what Yates' ceiling may or may not be. He showed a lot of moxie and confidence, but also showed nerves and a lack of experience. By year 3, as with most draft picks, we'll all have a much clearer idea of where Yates stands. When Schaub is healthy, he'll be back under center and Yates' will be #2. I think Leinart is a goner. Maybe we can trade him to Oakland for a couple of #1's and a 2nd or 3rd.
I have to agree with the bold .... They have to free up some cap space to get Foster and Williams extended. I think both Leinart and Jacoby Joens are released. I could see others re-structuring their deals to free up space too.

With Yates on the roster you have a #2 who's capable .... making Leinart expendable.

Jacoby ... 3m each of the next two years. His production doesnt warrant that much money. You can get that from an early draft pick for probably half the cost.

Between those two you save around $6.5m in cap space.
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Old 01-17-2012   #73
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Default Re: The Decisions Facing our Offense This Offseason

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I have to agree with the bold .... They have to free up some cap space to get Foster and Williams extended. I think both Leinart and Jacoby Joens are released. I could see others re-structuring their deals to free up space too.

With Yates on the roster you have a #2 who's capable .... making Leinart expendable.

Jacoby ... 3m each of the next two years. His production doesnt warrant that much money. You can get that from an early draft pick for probably half the cost.

Between those two you save around $6.5m in cap space.
Jacoby only cost 617k against the cap this year. Does anyone know 2012 numbers against the cap instead of speculating? I'm guessing around 1.7-2.4 million based on what the deal is worth. A clean cut would free up what?
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Old 01-17-2012   #74
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Default Re: The Decisions Facing our Offense This Offseason

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Jacoby only cost 617k against the cap this year. Does anyone know 2012 numbers against the cap instead of speculating? I'm guessing around 1.7-2.4 million based on what the deal is worth. A clean cut would free up what?
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89116 I would love for that thread to be a sticky
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Old 01-17-2012   #75
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Default Re: The Decisions Facing our Offense This Offseason

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Jacoby only cost 617k against the cap this year. Does anyone know 2012 numbers against the cap instead of speculating? I'm guessing around 1.7-2.4 million based on what the deal is worth. A clean cut would free up what?
The first year was the only guaranteed year and only guaranteed money .... cutting him saves roughly half of whats remaining on the 3 year 10.5m deal.

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http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89116 I would love for that thread to be a sticky
I agree , that thread needs a stickey.
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Old 01-17-2012   #76
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Default Re: The Decisions Facing our Offense This Offseason

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The first year was the only guaranteed year and only guaranteed money .... cutting him saves roughly half of whats remaining on the 3 year 10.5m deal.



I agree , that thread needs a stickey.
I guess someone needs to break it down for me then, because I'm still not understanding his exact cap implications in 2012.

Jacoby Jones Wide Receiver 7/29/2011: Signed a three-year, $10.5 million contract. The deal contains $3 million guaranteed. 2011-2013: Under Contract, 2014: Free Agent

to 7.5 million over 3 years back loaded is what I understand? He was 617,280 against the cap this year. How are you coming up with these numbers? Help a dumb guy understand.
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