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Old 01-12-2012   #21
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Re-Grades the 2011 Draft

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That would be awful. Allen is a better CB than KJ. He's not a Pro Bowl caliber CB, but he makes plays on the ball and he actually looks for the ball, which results in fewer pass interference calls. If it were me, it would be an open competition for the #2, #3, and #4 CB job, and let the seeding work itself out. I suspect it would end up being Allen #2, KJ or Harris at #3, and the other at #4. McCain ends up being the 5th CB and ST player. McManus is the odd man out.
McCain has been pretty damn good as the nickel this year...I really want to say that he has been awesome...

IF KJ is bumped from the starting line-up I'm not sure that he'd beat McCain out for the nickel CB position...McCain has made a lot of plays on the ball and in crucial situations too...

KJ would bring a different type of element to that nickel position, but I don't know if he would have the same type of impact...
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Old 01-12-2012   #22
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Re-Grades the 2011 Draft

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McCain has been pretty damn good as the nickel this year...I really want to say that he has been awesome...

IF KJ is bumped from the starting line-up I'm not sure that he'd beat McCain out for the nickel CB position...McCain has made a lot of plays on the ball and in crucial situations too...

KJ would bring a different type of element to that nickel position, but I don't know if he would have the same type of impact...
I'm trying to be optimistic. You're killing my optimism, man!
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Old 01-12-2012   #23
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Re-Grades the 2011 Draft

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There's a fair bit of middle ground between throwing a rookie out there as a starter with no competent vet across from him like they did to KJ and benching a second round rookie for an entire season. I'd feel a lot better about Harris if they had played him sparingly, in dime packages or certain situations. As it stands, he played nothing until the final game for a few snaps.
Brandon Harris did play in a couple of games earlier in the season, didn't look too bad if you ask me.

I was surprised to see Allen make the team. I'd have thought they would have split time with Kj & Harris. But Allen continued to impress.

But even the Dime thing..... does Wade always throw in an extra safety, or has Nolan & Demps impressed enough to keep Harris off the active roster? Usually when we go Dime, they bring Quin up like a corner & bring in an extra safety. I'd have thought they'd bring in Harris & leave Quin at safety.
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Old 01-12-2012   #24
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Re-Grades the 2011 Draft

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Brandon Harris did play in a couple of games earlier in the season, didn't look too bad if you ask me.

I was surprised to see Allen make the team. I'd have thought they would have split time with Kj & Harris. But Allen continued to impress.

But even the Dime thing..... does Wade always throw in an extra safety, or has Nolan & Demps impressed enough to keep Harris off the active roster? Usually when we go Dime, they bring Quin up like a corner & bring in an extra safety. I'd have thought they'd bring in Harris & leave Quin at safety.
Allen has been more impressive than KJ. Maybe Allen made the team to lessen the impact of a 1st round bust in KJ while allowing Harris to develop in a normal manner.
As far as the extra safety, that could be for adding a definitely better tackler than maybe a somewhat better cover guy.
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Old 01-12-2012   #25
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Re-Grades the 2011 Draft

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Allen has been more impressive than KJ. Maybe Allen made the team to lessen the impact of a 1st round bust in KJ while allowing Harris to develop in a normal manner.
As far as the extra safety, that could be for adding a definitely better tackler than maybe a somewhat better cover guy.
Allen has been more impressive to you.

& a bunch of the fans here.

Me, I'd much rather have Kj, I think he's a better cover corner. I also believe he is getting the lion's share of snaps because Wade/Vance think so as well.

It is highly abnormal for a 2nd round pick to not have substantial minutes on the field as a rookie.... maybe as the nickel, maybe as the dime...... but most rookie 1st & 2nd round picks would have played a lot by now.
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Old 01-12-2012   #26
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Re-Grades the 2011 Draft

Harris looked kinda lost to me. Not bad just....raw. He's getting the time he needs to develop, something KJ didn't get. He'll get a shot next year to show something. As far as KJ is concerned I think he's a nickel or maybe make the same move Quin did and back Quin up. I can't wait to see what Carmichael can bring but in the meantime it's nice to see McCain putting the clamps on. It's too bad he gets run over because he's awesome in coverage. McMannis is probably on the bubble next year. Allen has performed admirably but if it came down to keeping him or taking a shot on a new talent, I'd probably pickup a guy in the draft.

However it falls.....it's a lot easier to deal with having J-Jo on the top of that depth chart.
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Old 01-12-2012   #27
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Re-Grades the 2011 Draft

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That would be awful. Allen is a better CB than KJ. He's not a Pro Bowl caliber CB, but he makes plays on the ball and he actually looks for the ball, which results in fewer pass interference calls. If it were me, it would be an open competition for the #2, #3, and #4 CB job, and let the seeding work itself out. I suspect it would end up being Allen #2, KJ or Harris at #3, and the other at #4. McCain ends up being the 5th CB and ST player. McManus is the odd man out.
As bad as everyone says Jackson is in pass coverage, Allen is just as bad (worse if you ask me) in run support. And run support is also a big part of a CB's job. That is one thing ole "Pay-Me-Rick" did rather well, step up in run support.

Allen refuses to stick his nose into any sweeps or off-tackle plays to his side.

When was the last time you recall Allen knifing in to stop a running play or taking on a RB to prevent a screen from gaining big yds.

Too bad we can't take Allen's ball skills and Jackson's tackling on running plays and combine them into one DB.
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Old 01-13-2012   #28
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Re-Grades the 2011 Draft

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As bad as everyone says Jackson is in pass coverage, Allen is just as bad (worse if you ask me) in run support. And run support is also a big part of a CB's job. That is one thing ole "Pay-Me-Rick" did rather well, step up in run support.

Allen refuses to stick his nose into any sweeps or off-tackle plays to his side.

When was the last time you recall Allen knifing in to stop a running play or taking on a RB to prevent a screen from gaining big yds.

Too bad we can't take Allen's ball skills and Jackson's tackling on running plays and combine them into one DB.
I have to give Allen some props. He did improve his game quite a bit this year, including the tackling department (KJ is still quite better in this regard and he set the edge much much better.) I agree with you on this point; people tend to forget what Foster (and Tate) do on our stretch plays. If they recall the yards and the TDs we got from our RBs, they will appreciate KJ much more. If he doesn't make the tackle himself, he would set the edge and turn the runner inside or slow him down some. Allen still missed some tackles here and there.

Also, we send more support toward Allen. At times, due to this, the offense would go the other way where there's single coverage, or fewer defenders in general. Why else do you think that the opponents' other weapons can have certain success in certain games against our D?
In the passing game, a pure double-team on a receiver would most usually prompt the QB to go elsewhere.
In the running game, when a CB is on an island, it allows a safety to come down to attack the run.

When taking everything into account, I'm staying firm with KJ as the better option at #2.

McCain made some plays at nickel, but he also gave up some plays.
And don't forget that as a nickel, safety's help is usually near, allowing McCain to play more aggressive.
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Old 01-13-2012   #29
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Re-Grades the 2011 Draft

Houston nailed the 2011 draft my question is who was calling the shots with the picks because we nailed them and I think that once Brandon Harris comes around this will become an A+ no doubt about it.
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Old 01-13-2012   #30
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Default Re: Mel Kiper Re-Grades the 2011 Draft

I think Harris didn't play a lot because they didn't want to ruin him by throwing him into the pack too soon, ala KJ, so they wanted him to learn from the sideline. And tbh we really didn't need him this season. JoJo the LCB, KJ/Allen RCB, Brice McCain the nickle(who played lights out IMO), and I believe Manning(?) moved down into dime and we put Nolan or Demps back at safety. I think he'll get a lot more playing time me t year for sure. And wasn't he hurt for a few games anyways?
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