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Old 12-30-2011   #261
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
But if he sticks around, slowly but surely his critics will come out of the woodworks. It happened in Dallas & it'll happen here if he stays long enough.
I wonder if anybody as a HC can ever truly succeed in Dallas.

I mean, honestly...since Jimmy Johnson left there's been some residue that Switzer inherited and won a Super Bowl with (though I still give the guy a lot of credit, don't get me wrong).

But after that, what's happened there? Jerry Jones has created a situation in Dallas, IMO, where a HC can never be a HC in the truest sense. It's happening a lot in major pro sports leagues--the concept of the authoritative HC being watered down and the inmates running the asylum--but in Dallas, IMO, it's magnified more because of JERRY JONES.

To me, Jerry Jones has created an organizational environment where players know that Jerry is ultimately everything Cowboys. He's the owner, he's practically the GM, and he wants to be a coach "figure" of sorts. If you play in Dallas, your loyalty is to Jerry and not to any HC who will just be gone in a couple of years anyways.

All of that is to say this: Wade Phillips would probably do fairly well as Texans HC if it were to happen. He'd be given as much loyalty as McNair gave Kubiak, as much time as he gave Kubiak, and Wade's personality fits the town of Houston. He'd be hands-off with the offense, hiring someone to run it. But would he be the defensive version of Kubiak and try to run the defense even though he'd have a DC working for him in that capacity? Maybe.

A lot of these great coaches in the NFL have had some fortunate bounces of the ball go their way. Does Bill Belichick become a legend if Tom Brady had been drafted by the Packers and not the Patriots? Does Mike Shanahan win a Super Bowl without John Elway and Terrell Davis? Mike McCarthy looked like a goat, as did his GM, when they got rid of Favre...Packers nation thought it was the end of the world, and all that happened is a dominating QB named Aaron Rodgers made them change their minds very quickly.

The idea of who is more valuable is a sticky situation, IMO. Maybe a franchise style superstar like Michael Jordan is more valuable than anyone else in the whole Bulls franchise??? Maybe Peyton Manning was more valuable than Irsay, Dungy, Moore, and all the well-placed role players that supported his vast talents? It's possible that a superstar game-dominator (Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady) is more valuable than any other person out there.
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Old 12-30-2011   #262
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Again, I think it's part of the process. He's got to do in 3 games what he's done with Matt Schaub over 4 seasons. To throw 15 times in a game & still score 37 points (Bucs) or 23 times & score 41 points (Titans) or like Leinart, throw the ball 13 times & score 17 points in one half against a top 5 defense.

I seriously doubt Kubiak called one short pass (other than a screen) vs Indy. That was Tj. All our 3rd downs were 3rd & Longs. He threw the ball on 6 of them. Ran a draw on one. Another came after a sack. A third he was trying to run the clock out.
We can do extraordinary things when adrenaline is flowing and we know something big is on the line. People lifting cars off of trapped people and stuff.

I wonder if TJ Yates had a car lifting experience when he led us to the win over the Bengals? Then...with the pressure off, the playoff monkey dislodged from our backs, he plays "down" to his competition for two weeks. Nothing huge is on the line, per se, other than a first round bye. But still, if there's no edge to walk on...then maybe he hasn't found that Tom Brady or Drew Brees-type killer instinct yet.

What I mean is that Tom Brady took over for Drew Bledsoe in what I think was either the end of the reg season or the first playoff game or something. So he HAD to be "the man" the whole way to the Super Bowl. Tom Brady, IMO, had the "stuff" for sure...but the element he was thrown into, the greatness the moment required of him, it helped make him this legendary beast that defenses fear. And just like in Batman, the bad guys act way different when facing Brady than facing Drew Bledsoe.

TJ Yates is facing that same sort of situation.
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Old 12-30-2011   #263
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
I wonder if anybody as a HC can ever truly succeed in Dallas.

I mean, honestly...since Jimmy Johnson left there's been some residue that Switzer inherited and won a Super Bowl with (though I still give the guy a lot of credit, don't get me wrong).

But after that, what's happened there? Jerry Jones has created a situation in Dallas, IMO, where a HC can never be a HC in the truest sense. It's happening a lot in major pro sports leagues--the concept of the authoritative HC being watered down and the inmates running the asylum--but in Dallas, IMO, it's magnified more because of JERRY JONES.
There's no denying they have talent on that team.... from a GM standpoint, I don't know that Dallas can have a better one.

The big problem, in the Wade Phillips era was that there were two teams.. offense & defense. What ever happened, I think it's safe to say that the defense didn't appreciate the way the setup worked as it was the defense that laid down on Wade.... their coach.

There were two teams there, because Jerrah hired the OC before Wade & publicly admitted that he liked Garrett as a possible HC.... Wade was not a strong enough HC for that imo.

We have a similar situation here. It is widely believed that McNair hired Wade & Gary was told to deal with it. Now, we get to see if Gary is a strong enough coach to make it work, make it one team.

As far as defensive play-calls & what not, there is no problem with handing that over to Wade...... it happens all the time. Gary has to make sure practices, meetings, discipline.... all that other stuff teams have to do together all happen the same for every one.

If it ever gets to an offense vs defense situation, it'll fall apart.
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Old 12-30-2011   #264
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
I wonder if TJ Yates had a car lifting experience when he led us to the win over the Bengals? Then...with the pressure off, the playoff monkey dislodged from our backs, he plays "down" to his competition for two weeks. Nothing huge is on the line, per se, other than a first round bye. But still, if there's no edge to walk on...then maybe he hasn't found that Tom Brady or Drew Brees-type killer instinct yet.
I think Schaub was doing the same thing. I think, that's what Kubiak wants. He wants to control the ball. If we've got the lead, you're going to see "smart" decisions from the QB, to not put the team in bad situations.

But when we're behind & need a miracle to win, they are told to be less cautious & trust their help.

Matt looked Mundane to start every game last year (remember) then when we got down by two or three scores, the flood gates opened. Like it did in Cincinnati.

I'd much rather Kubiak let them do what they do & work on getting better at it so that we run the score up like the Pats or the Colts (of old) or the Saints.

But he probably won't & right now with Yates, I don't think it's prudent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GP View Post
What I mean is that Tom Brady took over for Drew Bledsoe in what I think was either the end of the reg season or the first playoff game or something. So he HAD to be "the man" the whole way to the Super Bowl. Tom Brady, IMO, had the "stuff" for sure...but the element he was thrown into, the greatness the moment required of him, it helped make him this legendary beast that defenses fear. And just like in Batman, the bad guys act way different when facing Brady than facing Drew Bledsoe.

TJ Yates is facing that same sort of situation.
Not exactly. That was a much better, a much more balanced team than the one you see today. Tom Brady wasn't spectacular that first Super Bowl (I don't remember) & I don't think much that second one either. Those were pretty good defenses & a ball control offense that won.

It was much later that Tom Terrific expanded his role & became the guy you see today....... same as Ben.
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Old 12-30-2011   #265
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Originally Posted by Wolf View Post
Kubiak: "You got your peanut butter in my chocolate!"

Phillips: "You got your chocolate in my peanut butter!"

Yep.

Wade is the chocolate, though.

And everyone knows that chocolate > peanut butter.

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Originally Posted by Nitrofish View Post
So let me get this straight... You consider yourself, and or your little posse "The Bear"?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! If that's getting it straight in your mind, so be it.

Since a simple saying went right over your head, we'll run with your assumption that "we" are the bear.

And that would make you the rabbit.

Quote:
Hey I never said he or you for that matter are not nice guys so stop putting words in my mouth. Just because I am tired of hearing the Kubiak bashing does not make me a bad guy.
That's fine. Attack the post, though, not the poster.

Quote:
It's my opinion that while you may respect each other, you do not extend that respect to others, especially if they are new and do not belong to your little posse.
Sure we extend respect to others. Just not to people whose sole purpose appears to be trolling members.

Quote:
Again you assume I am a noob who has never been in Houston or knows anything about this online community. I will ignore that because I know it is another veiled slight of my character based on your assumptions about me.
I've read this paragraph a few times and I still cannot decipher the babble. Sorry, I left my spewage decoder ring at home today.

[That's sarcasm, doood, blink twice if you can understand]

Quote:
In regards to corporations you will probably not find anyone who dislikes the corporate world more than me. Having said that, what you have written there shows again that if someone disagrees with you and wants to do things their own way, it warrants name calling.
Sarcasm is a lost art form to some folks.

Quote:
In regards to your welcome of new people and outsiders as you call them, I do not recall a warm welcome from you, or your posse, so I think you are a bit full of yourself. You have done nothing but name call and make belittling comments and then the rest of your posse chime in with one or two line posts that have nothing to do with the topic just like a bunch of high school kids. Example below. How clever.. no wonder you guys have so many posts. So you are the bear, you are the shark... what else?
"Outsiders" = other teams fans. We have quite a few around here that get along, regardless of their allegiance to other teams.

Perhaps a suggestion is in order. You should try to read and comprehend someone's point before engaging your fingers to reply. You have been so off the mark with your statements that it is laughable. Especially all the nonsense about 'elitism' and 'posse' and whatever. It's just silly, especially to anyone that's a regular part of the community.

Quote:
One thing some who read this thread will notice is, that no matter how high and mighty you might think you are, or how respected you think you are, it's a small handful of people who have your back and chime in and slap you on the back when you name call. The rest not so much. This board is for Texans fans, and I am one of them. If you do not like my posts, put me on ignore, but do not try to bully me or think you can run me off.
Again, more dribble based on assumptions. I am far from "high and mighty". I'm just a fan, no better or worse than any other fan.

I will not put you on ignore, and I certainly have no desire to bully anyone. If you feel that way, you need to check the mirror, because all that hand-wringing insecurity comes from within YOU and radiates outward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post
DB, please don't respond... We've seen this joker (well literally) hundreds of of times before??
yeah, same old, same old.

What's funny is that this forum has debated this very subject - Kubiak as HC - many, many times over the past few years. And Nitrofish is calling out people that have always supported Kubiak. His brush is really big, you know, so he wants to make sure that he can paint everyone with it. It's him vs. the world, I guess. It's humorous. My mind imagines a man banging his head against a brick wall for some reason...

Hundreds of times before, indeed. "KEWL"
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Old 12-30-2011   #266
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Old 12-30-2011   #267
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
What kind of discussions are they having in Jacksonville, Cleveland, Seattle, & maybe even Cincinnati?

Teams who would have much better defensive numbers if their offenses were as good as ours.
TK, I think you have me all wrong. I don't want to fire Kubiak, unless of course we can hire Cowher.

I like our offense, especially the running game.

I think I am just drawn to the defensive side of the ball, so I like strong defenses.
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Old 12-30-2011   #268
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Originally Posted by GP View Post
We can do extraordinary things when adrenaline is flowing and we know something big is on the line. People lifting cars off of trapped people and stuff.

I wonder if TJ Yates had a car lifting experience when he led us to the win over the Bengals? Then...with the pressure off, the playoff monkey dislodged from our backs, he plays "down" to his competition for two weeks. Nothing huge is on the line, per se, other than a first round bye. But still, if there's no edge to walk on...then maybe he hasn't found that Tom Brady or Drew Brees-type killer instinct yet.

What I mean is that Tom Brady took over for Drew Bledsoe in what I think was either the end of the reg season or the first playoff game or something. So he HAD to be "the man" the whole way to the Super Bowl. Tom Brady, IMO, had the "stuff" for sure...but the element he was thrown into, the greatness the moment required of him, it helped make him this legendary beast that defenses fear. And just like in Batman, the bad guys act way different when facing Brady than facing Drew Bledsoe.

TJ Yates is facing that same sort of situation.
Actually Tom Terrific took over for Bledsoe late in the second game of the 2001 season. LINK
Quote:
The Patriots opened the season with a 2317 loss at Cincinnati, with Bledsoe as the starting quarterback. Their second game, and home opener, on September 23, was against their AFC East rival, the New York Jets. Bledsoe was again the starter, when in the fourth quarter he suffered internal bleeding after a hit from Jets linebackerMo Lewis. Bledsoe returned for the next series, but was replaced with Brady for the Patriots' final series of the game. New York would hold on to win, 103, and the Patriots fell to 02 on the season.[22]
Brady was named the starter for the season's third game, against the Indianapolis Colts. In his first two games as starter, Brady posted unspectacular passer ratings of 79.6 and 58.7, respectively, in a 4413 victory over the Colts (in their last season in the AFC East) and a 3010 loss to the Miami Dolphins.[23]
In the Pats' fifth game, Brady began to find his stride. Trailing the visiting San Diego Chargers 2616 in the fourth quarter, Brady led the Patriots on two scoring drives to force overtime, and another in overtime to set up a winning field goal. Brady finished the game with 33 pass completions on 54 attempts, for 364 yards, and two touchdowns.[24]
Even he had a learning curve early on. And this was his second year with the Pats. He was not a rookie like Yates when he was thrown into the breach.
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Old 12-30-2011   #269
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Actually Tom Terrific took over for Bledsoe late in the second game of the 2001 season. LINK


Even he had a learning curve early on. And this was his second year with the Pats. He was not a rookie like Yates when he was thrown into the breach.
Man, I sure thought it was at the end of the season. I thought the Pats had things locked up for a playoffs spot and Drew got hurt, etc.

Thanks for finding that.
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Old 12-30-2011   #270
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Even he had a learning curve early on. And this was his second year with the Pats. He was not a rookie like Yates when he was thrown into the breach.
Was the Pats' running game responsible for those huge wins where Brady's passing numbers were fairly flat? Lots of points for Brady not doing spectacular things there. Well, I guess maybe defense was stout and could have had some turnovers and special teams scores and stuff.
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Old 12-30-2011   #271
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Actually Tom Terrific took over for Bledsoe late in the second game of the 2001 season. LINK


Even he had a learning curve early on. And this was his second year with the Pats. He was not a rookie like Yates when he was thrown into the breach.
That is hardly any different. Brady had been in the league one season as a back up that saw no playing time. Big difference there. He was thrown right into the wolves the same way though. It was just an earlier part in the season, and Brady took off from the start. He may not have been a stat gobbler right away, but he looked damn impressive and was leading his team to wins. Taking Bledsoe's job that year was not something that slightly above average play was going to do.
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Old 12-30-2011   #272
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Was the Pats' running game responsible for those huge wins where Brady's passing numbers were fairly flat? Lots of points for Brady not doing spectacular things there. Well, I guess maybe defense was stout and could have had some turnovers and special teams scores and stuff.
My point was that it takes even the great ones time to get up to speed. The sucky ones never do. The jury is still out on where Yates will land. Great? Sucky? Between? Who knows.

As an aside, remember Brady's first playoff game was the Oakland "tuck rule" game. ...just the first of many things that would be ruled in his favor. I wish we had a guardian angel looking out for us

...but I digress, sorry

EDIT: Went back to check. Vs. the Colts, the Pats scored 3 times on the ground and Ty Law had a pick-six in that first Colts game. In rather delightful news (to me) Major Forehead (Manning) was picked off 3 times (including the pick-six).

In his second game, the stats indicate Brady was tentative; 12 of 24 for 87 yds, no TDs or picks. Orrrrr maybe Belichick "had the handcuffs on" his young QB. Or maybe Brady was getting used to the speed of the game and was being cautious. Anyway, the 'Phins' running game controlled the clock and their defense shut down Antowain Smith (10 carries/47 yds/1 TD).
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Old 12-30-2011   #273
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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My point was that it takes even the great ones time to get up to speed. The sucky ones never do. The jury is still out on where Yates will land. Great? Sucky? Between? Who knows.

As an aside, remember Brady's first playoff game was the Oakland "tuck rule" game. ...just the first of many things that would be ruled in his favor. I wish we had a guardian angel looking out for us

...but I digress, sorry
Please do not try and denigrate on Brady's miraculous first season and HOF career. It speaks of sour grapes.
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Old 12-30-2011   #274
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Yep.

Wade is the chocolate, though.

And everyone knows that chocolate > peanut butter.



BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! If that's getting it straight in your mind, so be it.

Since a simple saying went right over your head, we'll run with your assumption that "we" are the bear.

And that would make you the rabbit.



That's fine. Attack the post, though, not the poster.



Sure we extend respect to others. Just not to people whose sole purpose appears to be trolling members.



I've read this paragraph a few times and I still cannot decipher the babble. Sorry, I left my spewage decoder ring at home today.

[That's sarcasm, doood, blink twice if you can understand]



Sarcasm is a lost art form to some folks.



"Outsiders" = other teams fans. We have quite a few around here that get along, regardless of their allegiance to other teams.

Perhaps a suggestion is in order. You should try to read and comprehend someone's point before engaging your fingers to reply. You have been so off the mark with your statements that it is laughable. Especially all the nonsense about 'elitism' and 'posse' and whatever. It's just silly, especially to anyone that's a regular part of the community.



Again, more dribble based on assumptions. I am far from "high and mighty". I'm just a fan, no better or worse than any other fan.

I will not put you on ignore, and I certainly have no desire to bully anyone. If you feel that way, you need to check the mirror, because all that hand-wringing insecurity comes from within YOU and radiates outward.



yeah, same old, same old.

What's funny is that this forum has debated this very subject - Kubiak as HC - many, many times over the past few years. And Nitrofish is calling out people that have always supported Kubiak. His brush is really big, you know, so he wants to make sure that he can paint everyone with it. It's him vs. the world, I guess. It's humorous. My mind imagines a man banging his head against a brick wall for some reason...

Hundreds of times before, indeed. "KEWL"
Wonk, wonk, wonk... You sound like Charlie Brown's teacher.
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Old 12-30-2011   #275
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Originally Posted by Nitrofish View Post
Wonk, wonk, wonk... You sound like Charlie Brown's teacher.
And you sound like Charlie Brown.
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Old 12-30-2011   #276
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Originally Posted by Nitrofish View Post
Wonk, wonk, wonk... You sound like Charlie Brown's teacher.
Please don't continue to play the victim card anymore when you respond like this. You haven't realized it yet, but you have gone full court press against members that are actually Kubiak supporters, but you're to dead set on battling that you haven't been able to see it.
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Old 12-30-2011   #277
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Please don't continue to play the victim card anymore when you respond like this. You haven't realized it yet, but you have gone full court press against members that are actually Kubiak supporters, but you're to dead set on battling that you haven't been able to see it.
The Ingenious Gentleman Don Quixote of La Mancha had imaginary dragons to fight. Wonk, wonk, wonk
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Old 12-30-2011   #278
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
The Ingenious Gentleman Don Quixote of La Mancha had imaginary dragons to fight. Wonk, wonk, wonk
I actually thought he reminded me more of Lucy with the way he bosses everyone around and telling them to "support Kubiak or else" as if we are all his Charlie Browns.
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Old 12-30-2011   #279
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Originally Posted by Texan_Bill View Post


Why?!?!?? Why did my dumbass self read all the stupidity in this thread??!!?

*punches self in the junk*
That's exactly the way I felt----like I wanted to club myself in the head just for engaging in the utter nonsense.

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You'd think this is pure common sense to anyone that has watched football or any tournament format in any sport before, but apparently people will say anything to try and make themselves seem right in an argument. Seeding isn't important. Lol!!
Haha! Wow. Just..... Wow.
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Old 12-30-2011   #280
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Default Re: Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
Please do not try and denigrate on Brady's miraculous first season and HOF career. It speaks of sour grapes.
As you have said yourself, everyone is subject to fan scrutiny. Stop and correct me when I lie.

Edit:
For clarification purposes, that shot about the tuck rule was more of a shot at the refs than Brady. He didn't make that call, the refs did.

Last edited by ObsiWan; 12-30-2011 at 09:52 PM.
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