Wade IS More Valuable Than Kubiak

[gary]

I would draft the best receiver available or even move up to get a good one.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

There were 4 instances when we were third & long & ran the ball.

1) I think was our first 3rd & 14. We opted to run the draw. I didn't have a problem with running a draw at that time. I've heard many times when our fans wonder why we don't run more draws & screens. Granted, they probably weren't talking about 3rd & 14..... but I've seen the draw ran hundreds of times in this same situation, so I had no problem with it here.

2) After one of the nastier sacks, we were 3rd & 9 (I think) we ran the ball again out of the shotgun. The defense was spread out, we had a 5 on 5 situation up front (on the OL) you'd think we would be able to get a big run given that we've got the best running back in the league & possibly the best OL.

3) The last 3rd & long situation. Indy started using their time outs with 3:26 left in the game. They had just used their last time out & we were 26 seconds away from the 2 minute warning. I think he ran the ball there, to get us to the 2 minute warning...... then we kicked a field goal.

4) I did not locate & watch the fourth instance, so I really don't know.

There was a 3rd & 8 when we were inside the ten. It was the 1st or 2nd possession after the fumble. I think that might have played into the decision not to pass out of the endzone.

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

Well fine then, so you're suggesting that it was impossible to throw down the field because you're O line is complete **** than is what you're saying and you can't even trust them at all. Is that where we're at now, because I remember all year hearing this O line get a lot of praise. When you're trying to win a game you have to have some confidence in your team to make plays. You're talking as if it was a given that it would have been a sack if Yates would have been able to throw down the field. Sorry, but that's exactly what I'm talking about when people say "playing to lose" and playing like a "turtle." And I was referring more to Kubiak's turtle approach of running the ball on 3rd down when you need a first down. That's always pathetic. Throw the damn ball and give your offense a chance to move the chains. By running the ball you're essentially saying that we're going to punt and try to let our defense win this game for us. Unless your offense is inside their own 5 on 3rd down I'll never excuse running the ball on 3rd and long.

This isn't baseball where the move you make as a manager is pretty much set in stone & is blatantly obvious. There were tons of reasons why that last drive, you do what was done.

#1 the most obvious...you're depending on a 3rd string rookie qb. The mention of that alone should be enough but lets elaborate. Yates has been shaky at best these last 2 games as teams have started to get more tape on him & take away what he likes to do. Do you really want him slinging it around after he just came off a game where he threw 2 picks...1 of which in the red zone? Going further, on that last drive he luckily escaped an int on tipped pass to Walter that wound up in JJ's hands to convert our only 3rd down of the night. Oh, by the way, if you go back & look at that pass, it was horrifically inaccurate......well behind KW & i'm honestly surprised KW even got a hand on it.

#2 Your o-line has been pass blocking pretty pathetic...Winston had already given up a sack fumble (& he had help with a chip from Dressen too) & Caldwell was getting eaten alive in pass & run blocking. That last drive, we were already in FG range at that point...make sure to get the points, don't let anyone screw that up...which leads into reason # 3.


#3 you're already winning the game!!!....barely...but you are winning & you have the #1 ranked defense at your disposal & it has become the strength of your team at this point in the season. what's wrong with Leaning on that?


#4 & people haven't even looked at this....scoring a TD on that last drive or at any time in the 4th likely would've sealed the game (8 out of 10 times) but it doesn't put it out of reach for the colts, so there's no "trying to win the game" argument to even be made here. even if we do score 7 on that last drive, the colts still could've come back to tie it up if they somehow march down the field, score a TD & are successful on a 2 pt. conversion.....but who's thinking that's even possible at this point? They hadn't been in the end zone all game, they have no TO's & they have Dan freakin' Orlovsky at the helm.....Oops.

#5 running the ball wasn't just about going into a shell & trying to run clock to barely get out of there. I think it had more to do with getting the ball in your best playmaker's hands i.e. Arian Foster who'd already run all over the Colts defense to the tune of 100+ yards & a TD. The only thing you can argue here is that he could've done the same thing in the passing game as well.........but is hitting arian on 3 yd. screen plays & square ins really opening the playbook up? Nope, its just a long hand off is all.

#6 Last year after the game monday night against the colts, all we heard from fans is "why did Kubiak only give Arian 5 carries in the 2nd half?" or something to that effect; this was largely based on the well known fact that the Colts couldn't stop the run & Arian was a monster. This year the colts defense is arguably even worse than it was last year & we try to take advantage of that & what do we hear??? "oh, well he should've opened the playbook & passed downfield more.." Are you kidding me?

Honestly, i believe some of you guys don't know if you're coming or going.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by GP

I do wonder what would happen IF the next draft was almost exclusively OFFENSE and Gary got to cherry pick a lot of WRs, TEs, RBs, whatever was best available in each round. Maybe RIGHT TACKLE should be factored in, as well.

He essentially got ONE pick in the previous draft (TJ Yates) and by golly he might not have hit a home run with Yates (yet) but it has been a good plug for the leaking ship known as Texans QB.

Imagine if we did some draft day wheeling and dealing and got Blackmon from Oklahoma State? Kid is the best version of Andre Johnson that's available right now, IMO. Let the Colts have Andrew Luck...I think we could get our Andre Johnson version 2.0 and do better than their Peyton Manning version 2.0

Just weighing in on this scuffle between who is more valuable. I'd like to see Kubiak go balls to the wall in the next draft. If that means shedding some weight off our roster, such as Jacoby Jones gets released and even maybe a sign and trade of Mario Williams to then also couple maybe another big draft pick to get into Blackmon range, I'm game for that. Wade Phillips can identify talent, folks. I don't think Mario Williams and his contract, and his play overall, are as valuable to us as getting some HUGE playmaking ability in a WR.

AJ is declining. Let's not make the same mistake the Colts made with sticking with Manning longer than they should have. Right? I'm not getting personal on Mario here. It's just business. And to me, business dictates that the run we had with Mario was great...but this is a league for the young, and there's a WR out there in this draft class that I think could grow into AJ version 2.0. We need more firepower on offense.

Good post. I think they need to spend some picks on offense next draft, as well. Especially WR and RT.

I hated that Jacoby was re-signed. But, I think they stick with him for at least another year. I will never understand the love affair that they seem to have for him, but it is what it is. Their tendencies have indicated that they always give these type of players the so-called 'benefit of the doubt', and Jones will be no exception to their M.O.

Regarding Andre, he will retire as a Texan. I have absolutely no doubt of this, and McNair will keep him as long as AJ wants to be on the team. Hopefully his worth ethic, often compared to Jerry Rice's, is something that allows him to be productive until his late 30's. And this is just my perception, but I don't think he's got the normal WR ego that puts self ahead of team. So when the time comes for him to step to no. 2 because our new stud bull is hitting his prime, I honestly think he'd do it for the franchise. I could be wrong...dude doesn't tip, you know. (hehe)

Originally Posted by Nitrofish

Well some more grown up posts from the drunks... How kewl.

I see you like to poke the bear. Funny that you would tag this forum as the "most elitist" that you have ever lurked, but then you join and immediately start talking down to long time members that helped build and make this place what is is today.

Texan Bill is a solid dude and someone that many of us consider a friend. You will not meet a nicer guy at a tailgate or a bigger Texans fan.

See, this forum has something interesting going in that it's not a typical internet message board. We know each other in real life. We hold each other accountable simply because we know and see each other and respect each other.

I have no idea if you have any desire to form true friendships with other Texans fans on this forum. That's your business. But many of us have each other's backs, regardless of how much we might argue and debate around here. In the end, we respect each other, and that is something earned, not bestowed.

Originally Posted by Nitrofish

It's 100% OK in their mind as armchair atheletes to criticize or 2nd guess Kubiak, but I should not dare question or criticize them.

None of us play the games, make personnel decisions, or call plays. We are merely fans. We react. And we get together on this board to chat about what happened and what might happen, what we perceive, and what we would like or dislike to see.

So yeah, criticism and/or analysis of any given aspect of the Houston Texans is the reason this board exists. Not to gossip or talk trash about each other (unless it's in obvious jest, of course. We do like to have fun with it). If disrespecting people is your thing, perhaps the muddy swampland of the official board is more for you.

There is a reason most of us hang out here. This used to be the official board until the corporate overlords decided otherwise. Through the owner and members of the original Texans Talk and their very gracious invitation, the history migrated here. Perhaps you have no desire for a history lesson. Just comprehend that relationships are deep around these parts, and while we always welcome new folks and outsiders, we can also circle the wagons when required.

Originally Posted by gary

In the mind of Nitrofish no one should ever have an opinion or criticise anyone ever. Is that right?

There is blood in the water...

Originally Posted by Mr teX

This isn't baseball where the move you make as a manager is pretty much set in stone & is blatantly obvious. There were tons of reasons why that last drive, you do what was done.

#1 the most obvious...you're depending on a 3rd string rookie qb. The mention of that alone should be enough but lets elaborate. Yates has been shaky at best these last 2 games as teams have started to get more tape on him & take away what he likes to do. Do you really want him slinging it around after he just came off a game where he threw 2 picks...1 of which in the red zone? Going further, on that last drive he luckily escaped an int on tipped pass to Walter that wound up in JJ's hands to convert our only 3rd down of the night. Oh, by the way, if you go back & look at that pass, it was horrifically inaccurate......well behind KW & i'm honestly surprised KW even got a hand on it.

#2 Your o-line has been pass blocking pretty pathetic...Winston had already given up a sack fumble (& he had help with a chip from Dressen too) & Caldwell was getting eaten alive in pass & run blocking. We were already in FG range at that point...make sure to get the points, don't let anyone screw that up...which leads into reason # 3.


#3 you're already winning the game....barely...but you're winning & your #1 ranked defense at this point in the season is the strength of your team. what's wrong with Leaning on that?


#4 & people haven't even looked at this.... scoring a TD would've likely sealed the game but even if we do score 7 on that last drive, the colts still could've come back to tie it up if they somehow march down the field, score a TD & are successful on a 2 pt. conversion.....but who's thinking that's even possible at this point? They hadn't seen the end zone all day, they have no TO's & they have Dan freakin' Orlovsky at the helm.....Oops.

#5 running the ball wasn't just about going into a shell & trying to run clock to barely get out of there. I think it had more to do with get the ball in your best playmaker's hands i.e. Arian Foster who'd already run all over the Colts defense to the tune of 100+ yards & a TD. The only thing you can argue here is that he could've done the same thing in the passing game as well.........but is hitting arian on 3 yd. screen plays & square ins really opening the playbook up? Nope, its just a long hand off is all.

#6 Last year after the game monday night against the colts, all we heard from fans is "why did Kubiak only give Arian 5 carries in the 2nd half?" or something to that effect; this was largely based on the well known fact that the Colts couldn't stop the run & Arian was a monster. This year the colts defense is arguably even worse than it was last year & we try to take advantage of that & what do we hear??? "oh, well he should've opened the playbook & passed downfield more.." Are you kidding me?

Honestly, i believe some of you guys don't know if you're coming or going.

Good takes. However, I think the problem with putting shackles on Yates last game was that it seemed to undermine what he appeared to be in his two wins. He engineered late game drives, and obviously the game against the Bengals will cement his legacy as a Texan regardless of what happens to his career after this point.

[Mr teX]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Good post. I think they need to spend some picks on offense next draft, as well. Especially WR and RT.

I hated that Jacoby was re-signed. But, I think they stick with him for at least another year. I will never understand the love affair that they seem to have for him, but it is what it is. Their tendencies have indicated that they always give these type of players the so-called 'benefit of the doubt', and Jones will be no exception to their M.O.

Regarding Andre, he will retire as a Texan. I have absolutely no doubt of this, and McNair will keep him as long as AJ wants to be on the team. Hopefully his worth ethic, often compared to Jerry Rice's, is something that allows him to be productive until his late 30's. And this is just my perception, but I don't think he's got the normal WR ego that puts self ahead of team. So when the time comes for him to step to no. 2 because our new stud bull is hitting his prime, I honestly think he'd do it for the franchise. I could be wrong...dude doesn't tip, you know. (hehe)



I see you like to poke the bear. Funny that you would tag this forum as the "most elitist" that you have ever lurked, but then you join and immediately start talking down to long time members that helped build and make this place what is is today.

Texan Bill is a solid dude and someone that many of us consider a friend. You will not meet a nicer guy at a tailgate or a bigger Texans fan.

See, this forum has something interesting going in that it's not a typical internet message board. We know each other in real life. We hold each other accountable simply because we know and see each other and respect each other.

I have no idea if you have any desire to form true friendships with other Texans fans on this forum. That's your business. But many of us have each other's backs, regardless of how much we might argue and debate around here. In the end, we respect each other, and that is something earned, not bestowed.



None of us play the games, make personnel decisions, or call plays. We are merely fans. We react. And we get together on this board to chat about what happened and what might happen, what we perceive, and what we would like or dislike to see.

So yeah, criticism and/or analysis of any given aspect of the Houston Texans is the reason this board exists. Not to gossip or talk trash about each other (unless it's in obvious jest, of course. We do like to have fun with it). If disrespecting people is your thing, perhaps the muddy swampland of the official board is more for you.

There is a reason most of us hang out here. This used to be the official board until the corporate overlords decided otherwise. Through the owner and members of the original Texans Talk and their very gracious invitation, the history migrated here. Perhaps you have no desire for a history lesson. Just comprehend that relationships are deep around these parts, and while we always welcome new folks and outsiders, we can also circle the wagons when required.



There is blood in the water...



Good takes. However, I think the problem with putting shackles on Yates last game was that it seemed to undermine what he appeared to be in his two wins. He engineered late game drives, and obviously the game against the Bengals will cement his legacy as a Texan regardless of what happens to his career after this point.

Yeah, but we also don't know how much TJ is shakling himself either. As i've said in other posts , there were clearly times when Yates could've thrown it deep.....or at least deeper than he wound up throwing it, but after his performance in the Carolina game, i wonder if he's starting not to trust what he sees more than he did in the 1st 2 games.

In regards to the bolded....sure, I'm thinking Chris Burke NLCS status for TJ, what do you think?

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Mr teX

Yeah, but we also don't know how much TJ is shakling himself either. As i've said in other posts , there were clearly times when Yates could've thrown it deep.....or at least deeper than he wound up throwing it, but after his performance in the Carolina game, i wonder if he's starting not to trust what he sees more than he did in the 1st 2 games.

In regards to the bolded....sure, I'm thinking Chris Burke NLCS status for TJ, what do you think?

yeah, true about TJ. We can only speculate if it's the coaches or his own rookieness showing up out there. With a couple of game films on him, no doubt that Carolina and Indy both set their defenses up to exploit his weaknesses accordingly.

The Colts game was weird, because he seemed to lock on to the dump pass pretty quickly at times. Again, we do not know if this is by design or just him getting jumpy with it. I hate to say it, but it sorta' reminded me of David Carr with the dink and dunks. Hard to keep drives alive expecting your receivers to make up all the required yards.

He mostly did three step drops, iirc. That does not lend itself to a deep game. Just not enough time. Perhaps it was a combination of both coaching and player tendency?

Hopefully, AJ will return and open up part of this offense. Defenses have to respect him, even hobbled, and dude's hands aren't hurt. That could really help TJ.

Good comparison with Chris Burke. TJ might end up a starter after Schaub, or he could be like Bucky Richardson with the Oilers back in the day. Immensely popular with fans, but that does not translate to gameday performance.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

"elitism"...BWAHAHAHAHA!! You're a funny dude. What a joke.

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

I see you like to poke the bear. Funny that you would tag this forum as the "most elitist" that you have ever lurked, but then you join and immediately start talking down to long time members that helped build and make this place what is is today.

I tried to rep you earlier, but yeah that "elitism" accusation was hilarious. Lol!!


I think Wagon head, I mean Nitrofish needs to get a better idea of what that word means. That is definitely not a word I ever would have thought anyone would have described this place as. Maybe a little nutty, but as elitism?? That was a chuckle. Lol!

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

I tried to rep you earlier, but yeah that "elitism" accusation was hilarious. Lol!!


I think Wagon head, I mean Nitrofish needs to get a better idea of what that word means. That is definitely not a word I ever would have thought anyone would have described this place as. Maybe a little nutty, but as elitism?? That was a chuckle. Lol!

That's just it. I think Texans fans in this forum are some of the most down-to-earth, self-deprecating folks around. Seriously, for all the arguments/debates and smack talked around here in the heat of the moment and emotion of the seasons, I have yet to meet someone in person from this forum that I did not enjoy their company and appreciate the friendship.

If you want to see a truly elitist board, go check out the Patriots. I love watching this team, but joining their forum and expecting any kind of friendly vibe to a noob? Fahgetaboutit! They made fun of me for being a Texans fan! (I didn't care, though. Ain't nothin' but a thang.)

[Texan_Bill]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

That's just it. I think Texans fans in this forum are some of the most down-to-earth, self-deprecating folks around. Seriously, for all the arguments/debates and smack talked around here in the heat of the moment and emotion of the seasons, I have yet to meet someone in person from this forum that I did not enjoy their company and appreciate the friendship.

If you want to see a truly elitist board, go check out the Patriots. I love watching this team, but joining their forum and expecting any kind of friendly vibe to a noob? Fahgetaboutit! They made fun of me for being a Texans fan! (I didn't care, though. Ain't nothin' but a thang.)

I'm so dumb I don't even know what the bolded means.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

That's just it. I think Texans fans in this forum are some of the most down-to-earth, self-deprecating folks around. Seriously, for all the arguments/debates and smack talked around here in the heat of the moment and emotion of the seasons, I have yet to meet someone in person from this forum that I did not enjoy their company and appreciate the friendship.

If you want to see a truly elitist board, go check out the Patriots. I love watching this team, but joining their forum and expecting any kind of friendly vibe to a noob? Fahgetaboutit! They made fun of me for being a Texans fan! (I didn't care, though. Ain't nothin' but a thang.)

Holy ****, that is so funny, because you know that I'm a die hard Pats fan after my Texans and I recently joined a Pats board, and I had the exact same thing happen to me. I got made fun of for being a Texans fan even when I expressed how much I was a Pats and Brady fan. I was even called a "Jets fan troll" for criticizing certain moves by BB whom I think is the best HC of all time. What forum is it that you went to??? We might need to link up on one of those, because I know you're a Pats fan as well.

I still post on this other Pats forum here and there, but it definitely made me appreciate this forum a lot more. I get a lot of extra Pats info over there though. I go to Patsfans.com. Where are you at?

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Texan_Bill

I'm so dumb I don't even know what the bolded means.

lol!

Funny enough, the spell check tried to put in "self defecating" because I misspelled it, which sort of changed the nature of my post.

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

Holy ****, that is so funny, because you know that I'm a die hard Pats fan after my Texans and I recently joined a Pats board, and I had the exact same thing happen to me. I got made fun of for being a Texans fan even when I expressed how much I was a Pats and Brady fan. I was even called a "Jets fan troll" for criticizing certain moves by BB whom I think is the best HC of all time. What forum is it that you went to??? We might need to link up on one of those, because I know you're a Pats fan as well.

I still post on this other Pats forum here and there, but it definitely made me appreciate this forum a lot more. I get a lot of extra Pats info over there though. I go to Patsfans.com. Where are you at?

yep, same forum, patsfan.com. Some folks are cordial enough, and I did not join to troll. But, some random member with a long history PM'ed me that they have enough bandwagon fans and said something disparaging about Texas. I just laughed, gave him a Texas howdy, and told him that I appreciated the welcome wagon.

I will always be a Texans fan as long as they are a Houston team. But, in our darkest hours, I joined just to feel the vibe of a winning team. It's the modern dynasty in the NFL, and they are a well run organization that we have been told McNair wants to model the Texans on. I was hoping for a little football fanatic osmosis, but as you probably know, over there you're just a noob from Texas.

[Texan_Bill]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

lol!

Funny enough, the spell check tried to put in "self defecating" because I misspelled it, which sort of changed the nature of my post.

That term I'm familiar with, in large part because of HOU-TEX.

[Double Barrel]

Originally Posted by Texan_Bill

That term I'm familiar with, in large part because of HOU-TEX.

I would say that depends....

[gary]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

Holy ****, that is so funny, because you know that I'm a die hard Pats fan after my Texans and I recently joined a Pats board, and I had the exact same thing happen to me. I got made fun of for being a Texans fan even when I expressed how much I was a Pats and Brady fan. I was even called a "Jets fan troll" for criticizing certain moves by BB whom I think is the best HC of all time. What forum is it that you went to??? We might need to link up on one of those, because I know you're a Pats fan as well.

I still post on this other Pats forum here and there, but it definitely made me appreciate this forum a lot more. I get a lot of extra Pats info over there though. I go to Patsfans.com. Where are you at?

I guess criticizing anyone really is forbidden in this world.

[EllisUnit]

Originally Posted by Carr Bombed

So you think Kubiak is more valuable than Wade? There is nothing wrong with this thread, because it speaks the truth.

Would you rather have Wade running the offense our Kubiak, would you have kubiak running the defense or wade. They are both valuble to us. Who cares wade wont replace Kubiak. Wade just needs to remain our D.C till he retires, end thread.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by EllisUnit

Would you rather have Wade running the offense our Kubiak, would you have kubiak running the defense or wade. They are both valuble to us. Who cares wade wont replace Kubiak. Wade just needs to remain our D.C till he retires, end thread.

Why do you guys even bring up scenarios that would never happen like that to try and prove some point??? If Wade was a HC, he wouldn't ever be running an offense. There would be some new OC that would be here running that offense, so I don't know why you would even ask about some scenario about whether someone would want Wade to run this offense.

[EllisUnit]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

Why do you guys even bring up scenarios that would never happen like that to try and prove some point??? If Wade was a HC, he wouldn't ever be running an offense. There would be some new OC that would be here running that offense, so I don't know why you would even ask about some scenario about whether someone would want Wade to run this offense.

My point is that Wade is an AWESOME D.C and Kubiak is a good O.C the combo works, we see what happened in dallas u cant do it all alone. It works in reverse If wade was the HC and kubiak was the O.C, it would still be a great combo.

so both are equally valuable.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I think this team would go to another level all together if we draft two receivers that bumps KDub down to the 4th receiver. Straight up cut Jacoby or keep him for punt returns only.

Yep

I'm hoping the Texans take a WR early rd.1/2 and one late. Plus sign a young vet in FA. Attack a weakness with numbers.

That and draft another CB high in the draft. LOL

[Texan_Bill]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

I would say that depends....

LMFAO!!! DB you've been "killin' it" lately! That was freakin' hilarious!!!

Alas, MSR!

[Texan_Bill]

Originally Posted by gary

I guess criticizing anyone really is forbidden in this world.

I don't like your "football" hat!!

my man! Any news on this year's golf tourney??