Kubiak 2011 coach of year?

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by Double Barrel

Now that the 49ers beat down one of the AFC's best teams and the Packers lost to the lowly Chiefs, do you feel any different?

I would give it #1 to Harbaugh and #2 to Kubiak.

McCarthy, great coach, but he's working with the Super Bowl champions this season. That's much different than taking two clubs like the Texans and 49ers to their first playoff berths in a decade.

I suspect the CotY voting will go the way you predict.

I respect McCarthy at 15-1 (assuming they win out) because, as the champs, you get everyone's best shot.

I respect Kubiak's record, because, like the Niners, we were 6-10 last year and have been able to keep winning despite numerous injuries. Keeping the team focused and winning while star after star are lost for numerous games (if not for the season) is a coaching accomplishment. It's akin to what McCarthy did with the Packers last year when they kept losing starters. He kept them focused on the goal.

I'm just not sold on Harbaugh as a "mastermind" because of all the talent he inherited; plus his team has been relatively injury free this year.

So I wouldn't be surprised or consider it some sort of travesty if he wins it.

Personally, I think Kubiak's best decision all year might be chosing not to speak over the headset when the defense is on the field.

Edit: I think Tomlin ought to be up for anti-CotY for starting a very, very gimpy Roethlisberger. When I predicted a Steelers victory, I had no idea Ben R. was THAT bad off. He could barely get off the damned bus.

[Big Lou]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

Super bowl win = team accomplishment

COTY award = individual contribution

Look, if Harbaugh had been the 49ers coach for the past 6 years, then yeah he wouldn't be in the conversation. But it took him 1 year to do what it took Gary 6 years. That's the difference, end of story.

Not advocating for Kubes here but you give Hairball, I mean Harbaugh the 2007 Texans and he aint winning 12 games, hell he might not even have topped Gary. It takes time to correct what Casserly and Capers did. Honestly who was here in 2007 besides Andre and a solid crop of Rookies? I can't think of anyone, but I'm thinking there was no running game since DD was hurt, sacks galore, HWWNBN, a defense thats only talent was getting long in the tooth. The ST was probably the only bright spot.

Let's be honest Kubes can piss you off sometimes, but if we had a solid D Coordinator from day one, this would probably be Houston's 3rd or 4th season in the playoffs. Kubes deserves criticism for the friends and family approach to hiring, "thats on him", but look what a difference one piece to the puzzle made. Injuries are part of the game and everyone has them, but if we had lost just half the key guys for games or part of the year and we'd be kicking the door in on the playoffs. Opponents would be damn near scared sh*tless of playing Houston right now.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

For the record, I don't hate Kubiak. My personal reasons has nothing to do with hate.

I'm sure this makes perfect sense to you. Please try to understand some of us may find it difficult to understand.

This is speculative. The 2011 draft was really no different than any draft since 2006. High character guys, team leaders..... defense heavy, which is probably the main reason Wade was able to turn the defense around so fast.

& you attribute that directly with Harbaugh? People were thinking Cushing was one-&-done, a product of steroids.... he's now leading the team in tackles, some saying he's the best LB in the game.

We took Cincinnati's "other" corner & he's having an all-pro season.

If you want to go offensively, "people" are talking about Chris Myers like he'll be an All-Pro, this "no-name" offensive line is regarded as the best in the league (by some) (San Francisco has 3 first rounders on their OL; Staley, Iupati, Davis. Plus they have a first rounder in Michael Crabtree, & Vernon Davis.

Oh yeah, Alex Smith was a first overall pick.

Then We've got an Undrafted free agent as our leading rusher (& starting RG until recently).


Like I said, I have no problem giving the award to Harbaugh, I think he is more deserving. I just don't undertand thinking Kubiak doesn't belong in the conversation....

Fangio, Aldon Smith, Patrick Willis has just as much to do with Harbaugh's success as Wade, Joseph, & Cushing.

M.S.R.

Look, last year the AP CotY award went to Belicheat ...with spygate still relatively fresh in folk's memory banks. Why? 14-2 is why. Even though Raheem Morris turned a sucky Tampa Bay team into a winner with far less talent. and it ain't like Belichick was handicapped at QB...

By that same thinking - from those same folks - McCarthy, should GB finish with a 15-1 record, could still win over Harbaugh with the best record in all of football.

But, as I said earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if Harbaugh won.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Big Lou

Injuries are part of the game and everyone has them, but if we had lost just half the key guys for games or part of the year and we'd be kicking the door in on the playoffs. Opponents would be damn near scared sh*tless of playing Houston right now.

Two things I have concluded because of our season.

1) Frank Bush is an idiut. The 2009 defense was spectacular in my mind. We played on the offensive line's side of the LOS more than the other team did. We saw all that talent we had doing what they were brought here to do.

Then in 2010, we questioned that talent because those same guys were asked to play on their heels. We saw spurts of 2009, when the game looked lost & our backs were against the wall. The defense would shut the other team out & allow our offense to get back in the game.

We saw it time & time again, but he never made the decision to play "our style" of football for 4 Qtrs. & Gary never made him.

All because they wanted to protect a rookie.

Wade, not so much. He throws them out there, rookie or not, doesn't change a thing. We play an aggressive style of defense....... PERIOD!!

Doesn't matter who is out there, they sink or swim.

2) I think that has rubbed off on Kubiak. We're not trimming the play-book for Tj Yates. he's going to sink or swim. The goal is the same, win games, & we're not going to do that playing safe & protecting rookies.

.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

M.S.R.

Look, last year the AP CotY award went to Belicheat ...with spygate still relatively fresh in folk's memory banks. Why? 14-2 is why. Even though Raheem Morris turned a sucky Tampa Bay team into a winner with far less talent. and it ain't like Belichick was handicapped at QB...

By that same thinking - from those same folks - McCarthy, should GB finish with a 15-1 record, could still win over Harbaugh with the best record in all of football.

But, as I said earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if Harbaugh won.

Raheem Morris got the 2nd most votes last year:

Belicheck 30
Morris 11.5
Todd Haley 4.5

EditPeople are allowed to split their votes?? odd...)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...for-third-time

But that's what I was getting at a while ago, the voters love regular season domination and turnaround stories. Right now the 49ers have 1 game on us with the Hawks and Rams left. They will likely be 13-3 at the end of the year in their 1st season with a new head coach and a 7 game upswing. I predict either Harbaugh or McCarthy will get it and Kubiak will get 3rd place.

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

Raheem Morris got the 2nd most votes last year:

Belicheck 30
Morris 11.5
Todd Haley 4.5

EditPeople are allowed to split their votes?? odd...)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...for-third-time

But that's what I was getting at a while ago, the voters love regular season domination and turnaround stories. Right now the 49ers have 1 game on us with the Hawks and Rams left. They will likely be 13-3 at the end of the year in their 1st season with a new head coach and a 7 game upswing. I predict either Harbaugh or McCarthy will get it and Kubiak will get 3rd place.

agreed

[ChampionTexan]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

Raheem Morris got the 2nd most votes last year:

Belicheck 30
Morris 11.5
Todd Haley 4.5

EditPeople are allowed to split their votes?? odd...)

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...for-third-time

But that's what I was getting at a while ago, the voters love regular season domination and turnaround stories. Right now the 49ers have 1 game on us with the Hawks and Rams left. They will likely be 13-3 at the end of the year in their 1st season with a new head coach and a 7 game upswing. I predict either Harbaugh or McCarthy will get it and Kubiak will get 3rd place.

So one of the three top finishers couldn't even make it through the following season, and a second is on thin ice and may or may not be back in 2012?

[ObsiWan]

Originally Posted by ChampionTexan

So one of the three top finishers couldn't even make it through the following season, and a second is on thin ice and may or may not be back in 2012?

I think the phrase is "going from sugar to sh..."

[thunderkyss]

I think Kubiak has moved up a notch, we're one game closer to the Super Bowl.

[Ghostform]

I thought it was appropriate to bring this thread back up

[badboy]

Yeah, rats are leaving ship and I may be one of them if we lose to Tenn and the first round. I think we lose first then win the second

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I think Kubiak definitely deserves consideration.

However, I do understand the argument here. Kubiak & Rick Smith didn't go too far outside their circle of friends when they attempted to fill the DC position. They didn't bring Greg Williams in for a talk. They didn't bring Nolan in for a talk.

They brought Frank Bush in 2008, but didn't get rid of Richard Smith until 2009, then automatically promoted Bush while presenting a weak attempt to look outside the organization.

As far as anyone knows, Kubiak & Rick Smith did not reach out to Wade Phillips. McNair did & McNair landed him.

So, I do understand fans not giving Kubiak credit for the defense (even though the majority of the ingredients were already here, even though the draft looked just like any Kubiak/Smith draft since 2007). I don't agree, but I understand.

From what I gather, the way Kubiak & Smith talk, every decision is a decision agreed upon by a certain group. Sometimes it's Smith, Kubiak, McNair & Cal. Sometimes it's Kubiak & his coaching staff. But it is rarely ever just Kubiak's decision for this, or Smith's decision for that. By that same token, I do not buy it was McNair's decision to bring in Wade. I think they all came to the conclusion that we would have a great team with Wade running the defense. Kubiak's job may have been held as leverage, I don't know, but it is plausible.

I think it's ridiculous to even entertain the notion that he should be considered. He's been the coach here for 6 years (in one more game) and is just now backing his way into the playoffs for the first time.

That's not the whole story though. He gets a pass in year one because he took over a 2-14 team which he immediately added four wins to.That's about right in my eyes. This was followed by 8-8. 8-8. 9-7, and 6-10.

Why?

Because we had no defense. Why did we have no defense? Because we had no defensive coordinator. Why did we have no defensive coordinator?

Because your coach of the year candidate couldn't tell **** from shinola. Four years of Andre Johnson's career (among others) wasted playing on half a team. Can anyone honestly say that we would be just now getting to the playoffs if we'd hired a legitimate defensive coordinator from the start instead of Richard Smith followed by Frank Bush?

What do those 8-8 seasons look like (or the 9-7 season) if we could have stopped anybody..... ever? 10-6? 11-5?

No. This man is no coach of the year candidate. Wade Phillips has done the kind of job you reward with that kind of award but not Gary Kubiak. He's just now finding a nut after dicking around the yard for half a decade. He took the Texans from 2-14 to 6-10 in one year. If he'd won the division the next year or even made the playoffs as a wild card then sure, he'd deserve consideration. He doesn't get consideration for this after his boss (who has been in professional football for all of 9 years) has to go find him a real DC because Gary doesn't know what one looks like.

[Double Barrel]

Nobody should ever be considered CotY if they let their 10 win team set a brand new stinking NFL record by losing to a 1 win team. Good job, Gary. Congrats on another record feather for your hat.