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Old 12-27-2011   #61
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

The Texans have played like crap the past 2 games. I bet they don't want to look like crap for three consecutive games going into the playoffs. They need to play to win this one.
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Old 12-27-2011   #62
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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The Texans have played like crap the past 2 games. I bet they don't want to look like crap for three consecutive games going into the playoffs. They need to play to win this one.
That's what I'm saying. I think having Wade back helps alot more.
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Old 12-27-2011   #63
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

I'm in the rest 'em camp. I do NOT want Andre out there with two bummed hamstrings, nor do I want to see anyone else go down.

I say a couple of reps and then sit 'em. Let them rest for the short week they will be facing.

Another reason is I really want to see what the back up QBs can do if Yates needs to be pulled in the playoffs for any reason.
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Old 12-27-2011   #64
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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The Texans have played like crap the past 2 games. I bet they don't want to look like crap for three consecutive games going into the playoffs. They need to play to win this one.
By all means play to win this Sunday, even if it means coming out of the game with "kids" like Foster, Andre, OD, Cushing, Joseph, JJ Watt "beat-up".
Or Kubiak could "be smart" and have them standing around on the sidelines padless in the second-half, cheering on reserves against the Titans and reasonable fresh/rested for the most important game the Texans will have played in their 10-year existence the following weekend ?
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Old 12-27-2011   #65
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

Its tough b/c we really do need to try to get some momentum going into the playoffs & Yates needs more reps with AJ as well as the rest of the offense to get some confidence............but on the other we've been soooooooooo injury prone this year & i'd really hate it if AJ reaggravated something or someone else on offense or defense went down in an otherwise meaningless game.

I think the answer is somewhere in between.. let the starters play 1st half & reserves in 2nd half....everyone except Caldwell & Winston. After that performance against the Colts they both clearly need to be playing.
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Old 12-27-2011   #66
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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By all means play to win this Sunday, even if it means coming out of the game with "kids" like Foster, Andre, OD, Cushing, Joseph, JJ Watt "beat-up".
Or Kubiak could "be smart" and have them standing around on the sidelines padless in the second-half, cheering on reserves against the Titans and reasonable fresh/rested for the most important game the Texans will have played in their 10-year existence the following weekend ?

Geeezzzzz! What if that game is against the hated Titans, and WE LOSE simply because of the SAME friggin mistakes we've made the past two weeks? We've got a rookie QB that needs reps with the STARTERS, lots of reps!! IF MS was healthy I could see your point, but, NOW is not the time to rest starters. AJ wants to play, and he needs to get the kinks out. The most important game for the Texans is Jan 1st!! Keep the Titans OUT of the playoffs. If they don't, Bud just might get the last laugh!! Are you ready for that??????
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Old 12-27-2011   #67
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

Kubiak needs to take the harness off of TJ once and for all and see what we have at QB going into the playoffs. When you're this deep into the depth chart and heading into the playoffs, every game is another chance for the team to gel. I think it would be a disservice to TJ and therefore the team to not play this game to win. You can rest Andre to be safe, but there is no way you don't give Yates and, perhaps more importantly, Caldwell the full speed reps they need.

Furthermore, I don't like losing to Tennessee. It's a division rival and beating them is always good for morale, which is something we'll need a lot of if we want to do well in the playoffs.
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Old 12-27-2011   #68
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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You can't pick one instance and say that because it happened then, it will - or even should - happen now. In 1988, the Oilers lost to the Browns in the regular season finale to finish 10-6 only to come back and beat them one week later in the first round of the playoffs. The regular season game was on the road, and because they lost, the playoff game was also in Cleveland. Something I find rather interesting about that playoff win was that it was only the second time since 1979 that the Oilers had won a game on the road against a team with a winning record. Seems like I've seen a vaguely similar statistic floating around this season regarding the Kubiak coached Texans.

In my perfect world, the Texans would never lose, but we all know how close to reality that's been since 2002. Yeah, I'd like to see the Texans beat the Titans on Sunday, but if they win the following weekend, I can probably live with whatever happens this Sunday.
In your post you pointed to a game in which the Oilers most definitely played to win and came up short. As a result they had to travel to Cleveland and win one of the most exciting Wild Card games ever. Do you think it ever crossed the Oiler's mind that they should "rest" in that final regular season game.

You went back 22 years to pick a game that indicates that the particular team in question approached that game as I think they should, in other words they played to win.

I gave you a recent example of a team who laid down becuase they had a spot locked up, got thrashed, then proceeded to get beat again by the very team against whom they "rested" against.

I also provided another recent example of a team playing their ass off in a loss to the Patriots, whom carried that momentum into the playoffs and won a Super Bowl. Exactly the same scenario you presented with the 1988 Cleveland vs Oilers game.

We need to play hard, we need to play to win, and most importantly we need to win the game.

We will get this team on track by beating the a division foe and by keeping them out of the playoffs. If you have the chance to eliminate someone you do, no questions asked.

Could you imagine the uproar if we "rest" our guys they beat us and make it in the playoffs? Then they end up playing us and beating us...... Getting knocked out by a team in our division because we didn't play the last regular season game hard. That is not likely to happen but it could, so why don't we eliminate the chance of that happening all together play to win.
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Old 12-27-2011   #69
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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Kubiak needs to take the harness off of TJ once and for all and see what we have at QB going into the playoffs. When you're this deep into the depth chart and heading into the playoffs, every game is another chance for the team to gel. I think it would be a disservice to TJ and therefore the team to not play this game to win. You can rest Andre to be safe, but there is no way you don't give Yates and, perhaps more importantly, Caldwell the full speed reps they need.

Furthermore, I don't like losing to Tennessee. It's a division rival and beating them is always good for morale, which is something we'll need a lot of if we want to do well in the playoffs.
resting AJ but taking the harness off of Yates? That's not going to yield good results. We either need to go all in for at least a half or don't go at all.

People make the mistake thinking that having yates put the ball up a gazillion times in a meaningless game is going to make him better & that's not necessarily true...especially If we were to do as you say & sit AJ b/c TJ's likely not going to play well & thereby might lose confidence. the 2nd thing is the more times he drops back, the more times he can potentially be hit.

Lastly, you don't get good passing the ball in the NFL overnight. It usually takes a few years - complete years with offseason work & preseason snaps. So him throwing 40-50 times in 1 game against a garbage defense isn't going to make him immeasurablly better overnight for the playoffs...it just doesn't happen like that.

He & the team honestly will probably learn more from a playoff loss rather than a win b/c they'll get a chance to see how much more intense the game becomes & how much more you have to elevate your game to become contenders year in/out in this league.

Our formula for this year has been set due to the injuries we've sustained. Play tough defense & run the ball effectively & only count on TJ to make just enough plays to keep the defense honest.
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Old 12-27-2011   #70
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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resting AJ but taking the harness off of Yates? That's not going to yield good results. We either need to go all in for at least a half or don't go at all.

People make the mistake thinking that having yates put the ball up a gazillion times in a meaningless game is going to make him better & that's not necessarily true...especially If we were to do as you say & sit AJ b/c TJ's likely not going to play well & thereby might lose confidence. the 2nd thing is the more times he drops back, the more times he can potentially be hit.

Lastly, you don't get good passing the ball in the NFL overnight. It usually takes a few years - complete years with offseason work & preseason snaps. So him throwing 40-50 times in 1 game against a garbage defense isn't going to make him immeasurablly better overnight for the playoffs...it just doesn't happen like that.

He & the team honestly will probably learn more from a playoff loss rather than a win b/c they'll get a chance to see how much more intense the game becomes & how much more you have to elevate your game to become contenders year in/out in this league.

Our formula for this year has been set due to the injuries we've sustained. Play tough defense & run the ball effectively & only count on TJ to make just enough plays to keep the defense honest.
It isn't about good stats or even TJ looking stellar, per se. It's about opening up the playbook for TJ and letting him settle into his role, at least for our playoff run, as the leader on the field. There is evidence that there is a lack of cohesiveness with the offense that needs to be resolved before the post-season. The results are going to be worse in the long run if we send TJ into the playoffs feeling like Kubiak and, by proxy, the team has no faith in him. I wouldn't care if he only threw the ball 15 times so long as the game plan places some sort of confidence in his ability to lead the team.
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Old 12-27-2011   #71
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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Originally Posted by Mr teX View Post
resting AJ but taking the harness off of Yates? That's not going to yield good results. We either need to go all in for at least a half or don't go at all.

People make the mistake thinking that having yates put the ball up a gazillion times in a meaningless game is going to make him better & that's not necessarily true...especially If we were to do as you say & sit AJ b/c TJ's likely not going to play well & thereby might lose confidence. the 2nd thing is the more times he drops back, the more times he can potentially be hit.

Lastly, you don't get good passing the ball in the NFL overnight. It usually takes a few years - complete years with offseason work & preseason snaps. So him throwing 40-50 times in 1 game against a garbage defense isn't going to make him immeasurablly better overnight for the playoffs...it just doesn't happen like that.

He & the team honestly will probably learn more from a playoff loss rather than a win b/c they'll get a chance to see how much more intense the game becomes & how much more you have to elevate your game to become contenders year in/out in this league.

Our formula for this year has been set due to the injuries we've sustained. Play tough defense & run the ball effectively & only count on TJ to make just enough plays to keep the defense honest.
Agreed

A few deep balls even if they're incomplete to loosen up the opposing defense would be nice. I'm not advocating letting Yates throw the ball 35/40 times a game. But 20/25 times with 4-5 of them 20-25 yds deep should be enough to keep the defense honest. Even if you've got to max protect to give Yates time to throw the deep ball, it needs to be done. IMHO
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Old 12-27-2011   #72
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

Everyone is saying short week. What time and date is our playoff game?
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Old 12-27-2011   #73
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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It isn't about good stats or even TJ looking stellar, per se. It's about opening up the playbook for TJ and letting him settle into his role, at least for our playoff run, as the leader on the field. There is evidence that there is a lack of cohesiveness with the offense that needs to be resolved before the post-season. The results are going to be worse in the long run if we send TJ into the playoffs feeling like Kubiak and, by proxy, the team has no faith in him. I wouldn't care if he only threw the ball 15 times so long as the game plan places some sort of confidence in his ability to lead the team.
I haven't heard anything coming from Kirby that says there's a crisis of leadership with Yates on the field.

I also don't think the playbook is nearly as closed as you all seem to think. In any case it was a collective handcuffing job by all parties involved. In the colts game there were clearly times where Yates could've aired it out deep, he just didn't; i know at least twice the commentators mentioned that "he wanted to go deep there". That's typical of rookie qb play as they typically do come in too skittish & don't trust what they see. And after the worst game of his career against Carolina where he threw some costly picks, I think he just handcuffed himself a bit in the colts game.

The other end of it is Winston & Caldwell were getting their lunches ate by Mathis & Anderson respectively. From a coaches perspective Why would you continue to have the last qb you have left who's been in your system all year, take 5 & 7 step drops to throw downfield if its so apparent that your line can't protect him? He'd already had a strip sack by Mathis & the game could've easily gotten out of hand if too much of that started happening.

Moreover, why would you want him throwing the ball up for grabs to the likes of Jones who at times can barely catch balls from 10 yds out? Those types of plays are reserved for the AJ's & CJ's of the league & we all know Jones is no where near that.

So yeah, there was some handcuffing by kubes in the colts game but it was more about protecting him above everything else.

You guys have to keep in mind that this guy is a 5th round draft pick & was a 3rd string for a reason as he was not expected to contribute this year at all. That means that he's likely going to need more work than normal to see if he's even capable of playing in this league.
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Old 12-27-2011   #74
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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Agreed

A few deep balls even if they're incomplete to loosen up the opposing defense would be nice. I'm not advocating letting Yates throw the ball 35/40 times a game. But 20/25 times with 4-5 of them 20-25 yds deep should be enough to keep the defense honest. Even if you've got to max protect to give Yates time to throw the deep ball, it needs to be done. IMHO
But see the defense only loosens up if you burn them on a few of those &/or you've got a credible deep threat.

The last two games, we've been unable achieve the 1st part of this...ironically b/c we haven't had the 2nd part.
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Old 12-27-2011   #75
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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I haven't heard anything coming from Kirby that says there's a crisis of leadership with Yates on the field.

I also don't think the playbook is nearly as closed as you all seem to think. In any case it was a collective handcuffing job by all parties involved. In the colts game there were clearly times where Yates could've aired it out deep, he just didn't; i know at least twice the commentators mentioned that "he wanted to go deep there". That's typical of rookie qb play as they typically do come in too skittish & don't trust what they see. And after the worst game of his career against Carolina where he threw some costly picks, I think he just handcuffed himself a bit in the colts game.

The other end of it is Winston & Caldwell were getting their lunches ate by Mathis & Anderson respectively. From a coaches perspective Why would you continue to have the last qb who's been in your system all year take 5 & 7 step drops to throw downfield if its so apparent that your line can't protect him? He'd already had a strip sack by Mathis the game could've easily gotten out of hand if too much of that started happening.

Moreover, why would you want him throwing the ball up for grabs to the likes of Jones who at times can barely catch balls from 10 yds out? Those types of plays are reserved for the AJ's & CJ's of the league & we all know Jones is no where near that.

So yeah, there was some handcuffing by kubes in the colts game but it was more about protecting him above everything else.

You guys have to keep in mind that this guy is a 5th round draft pick & was a 3rd string for a reason as he was not expected to contribute this year at all. That means that he's likely going to need more work than normal to see if he's even capable of playing in this league.
Not a crisis of leadership, but it's pretty clear that Kubiak doesn't trust T.J. as much as is needed. You don't run the ball on 3rd and 15, 3rd and 8, etc if you trust your QB and when you demonstrate that you don't that sends a message to the rest of the team and perhaps more importantly, the opposing team. It's not hard to shut down a great running game when you know that the coach gets squeamish at the idea of throwing the ball around. Make no mistake, I'm 100% behind T.J. - but if Kubiak isn't then he needs to cut his losses and put someone in who he is behind. Presumably, this would be Delhomme...god help us.

Furthermore, as you mentioned, the pass blocking from the right side of the line was awful in the last game and I'm sure that didn't do T.J. any favors. None-the-less, you can't play this game afraid of someone getting injured. It's just something that happens and if you're a truly great team you overcome it. Ideally, we would have realized that the line-up we had at oline wasn't working and tried some sort of adjustment at half-time, but that's for another thread. Simply put, you don't shut it down unless it's an emergency situation (after Leinart goes down in Jacksonville, for example).

As far as the WRs go, we're only down one guy. AJ aside, we need more than one WR to be truly successful in the passing game regardless of who's behind center. You can pin this one on Kubiak too, but that's also for another thread.

And finally, yes Yates is a 5th round rookie who will need long term work. I don't think anyone believes that he's the second coming of Brady, but he has shown potential and, unless you want to send Delhomme or a geriatric Jeff Garcia under center, he's all we got.
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Old 12-27-2011   #76
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

What time is our playoff game and what day?
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Old 12-27-2011   #77
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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Originally Posted by burro View Post
Not a crisis of leadership, but it's pretty clear that Kubiak doesn't trust T.J. as much as is needed. You don't run the ball on 3rd and 15, 3rd and 8, etc if you trust your QB and when you demonstrate that you don't that sends a message to the rest of the team and perhaps more importantly, the opposing team. It's not hard to shut down a great running game when you know that the coach gets squeamish at the idea of throwing the ball around. Make no mistake, I'm 100% behind T.J. - but if Kubiak isn't then he needs to cut his losses and put someone in who he is behind. Presumably, this would be Delhomme...god help us.

Furthermore, as you mentioned, the pass blocking from the right side of the line was awful in the last game and I'm sure that didn't do T.J. any favors. None-the-less, you can't play this game afraid of someone getting injured. It's just something that happens and if you're a truly great team you overcome it. Ideally, we would have realized that the line-up we had at oline wasn't working and tried some sort of adjustment at half-time, but that's for another thread. Simply put, you don't shut it down unless it's an emergency situation (after Leinart goes down in Jacksonville, for example).

As far as the WRs go, we're only down one guy. AJ aside, we need more than one WR to be truly successful in the passing game regardless of who's behind center. You can pin this one on Kubiak too, but that's also for another thread.

And finally, yes Yates is a 5th round rookie who will need long term work. I don't think anyone believes that he's the second coming of Brady, but he has shown potential and, unless you want to send Delhomme or a geriatric Jeff Garcia under center, he's all we got.

Well, there aren't many plays for 3rd & 15, the prudent thing to do at that point probably was to just run it & play the field position game. 3rd & 8, ok you can throw the ball....but you've got a guy in the backfield who was absolutley gashing the colts run defense & honestly when you take that into consideration, you could go either way. In any case, i don't think any of that was about trusting Yates. Probably had more to do with getting the ball in your best playmaker's hands.

But Lol at the bolded, you make it sound like AJ is just another run of the mill guy out there. Dude is arguably the best in the league & teams are aware of him at all times, that's not exactly something to be taken for granted. i do feel Yates has good repore with Walter, but without the spacing that AJ creates for him, he can't get open..this has been known for a while now.

All that being said, i don't think there's an unwillingness to work other WR's in, they just aren't good enough. More importantly, i don't think that this translates into Kubiak not trusting Yates...Maybe Yates just doesn't trust them.
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Old 12-27-2011   #78
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

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Originally Posted by TexansBlood View Post
I say play all the starters like a regular game. No need to sit anyone one, we need to go into the playoffs with a win instead of another lose which would make it 3 in a row. Seems like after we clinched it has not gone our way. Let's beat the crap out of the Titans and go into the playoffs with confidence!!
This. How many times have we seen a heavily favoured team with a bye lose because they lost their mojo during their off-week? Play'em all, we need reps, and it's not like we can really suffer more injuries than we have already.
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Old 12-27-2011   #79
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

Isn't the answer already here? Case closed it looks like:

http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-medi...4-27c85594cd02
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Old 12-27-2011   #80
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Default Re: Kubiaks top Priority Sunday: Beat Titans or rest Starters for W-C Playoff game ?

What time and date is the game? Does anyone know?
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