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Old 12-25-2011   #61
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Default Re: On you Kubiak

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
i am looking at the play by play and i dont see it either, nor do i remember it happening.

here we go.

1st possesion
run
run
TD

2nd
Run
pass/fumble

3rd
run
pass
3rd and 9 RUN
Punt

4th
pass for 29 yards
run
run
pass
pass pass
FG

5th
run
run
run
pass
punt

6th
pass
run
3rd and 8 run
punt

7th
pass
run
pass
punt

8th
pass
rush
pass
rush
2nd and 12 rush
pass
punt

9th
run
run
pass
3rd and 15 Run
punt

10th
pass
run/reverse
run
pass
pass
punt

11th
pass
run
pass
run
run
run
run
pass
run
pass
run
run
run
FG

12th
pass
pass

now i see NO 3 consecutive passes that led to a punt, i do however see A LOT of 3rd and 8+ runs.
It was actually worse than I thought. Thanks for taking the time to pull all that up.
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Old 12-25-2011   #62
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Default Re: On you Kubiak

TK,

Do you honestly believe the Texans can win a game in the playoffs throwing the ball less than a high school team, and not throwing a single pass deep all game long?

Yeah that's a receipe for success in the playoffs.

Gary is what Gary is. (Scared of his own shadow/ classic overthinker) It doesn't suprise me that engineering minds would agree with Garys losing strategy. I mean, Garys strategy isn't even good enough to beat a 1 win Colt team and some still agree with Garys strategy.

Playoffs? Playoffs? = Garys still a losing HC that will get an extention. Rinse/Wash/Repeat. Looks like 3 more yrs of the same old same old.
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Old 12-25-2011   #63
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Default Re: On you Kubiak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
You can't hide your QB in the NFL and you certainly can't hide him in the playoffs...that type of game plan will not net us any wins in the postseason (LMAO that game plan couldn't even get us a win against a team that was 1-14 and starting Dan Orlovsky ). What Kubiak should've been doing during all these last few games is prepare his QB to play in the postseason, not try to protect him.
I don't think it's about protecting your QB. Look at the losses with Matt Schaub, 51 pass attempts vs Oakland, 37 vs Baltimore, 39 against the Saints.

Look at our wins, Miami & Jacksonville are the only ones we threw the ball close to 30 times.

Scrub offenses, yes, but we're scoring 17, 24, & 30 points on top 10 defenses. There is only one good offense in the AFC play-offs this year & we won't see them until the AFC Championship game.

Run game, defense, that's going to get us to the AFC Championship game & give us a chance to win it. Smart passing from the QB position is going to be needed, but we don't need him trying to win the game with 30+ throws. That's suicide.

3rd & 8 should be a throwing down...... maybe Kubiak wanted to see how we would play against a "real" defense in the post season on 3rd & 2 in the red-zone.... I don't know. I don't agree with it, but I don't think it cost us the game.

I don't buy the "turtling up" excuse either, because we've been in worse positions before & he allowed Tj to throw us out of them. There had to be something else to that decision, & I think it had something to do with winning in the post season.
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Old 12-25-2011   #64
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Default Re: On you Kubiak

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I don't think it's about protecting your QB. Look at the losses with Matt Schaub, 51 pass attempts vs Oakland, 37 vs Baltimore, 39 against the Saints.

Look at our wins, Miami & Jacksonville are the only ones we threw the ball close to 30 times.

Scrub offenses, yes, but we're scoring 17, 24, & 30 points on top 10 defenses. There is only one good offense in the AFC play-offs this year & we won't see them until the AFC Championship game.

Run game, defense, that's going to get us to the AFC Championship game & give us a chance to win it. Smart passing from the QB position is going to be needed, but we don't need him trying to win the game with 30+ throws. That's suicide.

3rd & 8 should be a throwing down...... maybe Kubiak wanted to see how we would play against a "real" defense in the post season on 3rd & 2 in the red-zone.... I don't know. I don't agree with it, but I don't think it cost us the game.

I don't buy the "turtling up" excuse either, because we've been in worse positions before & he allowed Tj to throw us out of them. There had to be something else to that decision, & I think it had something to do with winning in the post season.
I think you're completely missing the point here... It's not just about "pass attempt totals". That's not even my big gripe here. It's about down/distance and the scenarios in which we're passing or not passing on. Running the ball on 3rd and longs is forfeiting possessions and the reason why we were so shitty in the T.O.P. and 3rd down conversions
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Old 12-25-2011   #65
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Default Re: On you Kubiak

Jacoby Jones can't replace Andre Johnson so what we're left with is the run game and short passing game. It is not enough in the NFL.
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Old 12-25-2011   #66
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Default Re: On you Kubiak

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
TK,

Do you honestly believe the Texans can win a game in the playoffs throwing the ball less than a high school team, and not throwing a single pass deep all game long?

Yeah that's a receipe for success in the playoffs.

Gary is what Gary is. (Scared of his own shadow/ classic overthinker) It doesn't suprise me that engineering minds would agree with Garys losing strategy. I mean, Garys strategy isn't even good enough to beat a 1 win Colt team and some still agree with Garys strategy.

Playoffs? Playoffs? = Garys still a losing HC that will get an extention. Rinse/Wash/Repeat. Looks like 3 more yrs of the same old same old.
Not throwing downfield.... that's not on Gary.... except maybe he told Tj to be ultra conservative.

throwing the ball 20 times or so... definitely, I think it's our best option at this point. We don't have Tom Brady behind center, we don't even have Matt Schaub back there. We've got Tj Yates.

He's going to have his opportunities to throw the ball on 1st down, 2nd down, whatever. But they've got to be smart throws.

If we are in a situation like we were in Cincinnati, or if we're in a position like the Colts were Thursday, I have no doubt that we'll do what we've got to do then. But, our best chance of winning in the post-season is to make sure we are not in that position.
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Old 12-25-2011   #67
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Default Re: On you Kubiak

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
Kubiak could commit 1st degree murder and you'd have the same people running in here and making excuses for why he did it.
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Old 12-25-2011   #68
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Default Re: On you Kubiak

You're going to have to throw the ball more than 16 times in a playoff game.
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Old 12-25-2011   #69
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Default Re: On you Kubiak

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Originally Posted by santo View Post
Funny how people expect Yates to throw downfield when Winston and Caldewll can't hold their blocks.

Kubiak may have called a bad game (which I really can't agree) but what do you expect him to do when Yates doesn't get the protection he needs plus the officials throwing the flags on crucial moments. Colts scored 13 points off BS calls.
I expect for him to move a TE over to help out Eric. It's called "in game" management.
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Old 12-25-2011   #70
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Default Re: On you Kubiak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
I think you're completely missing the point here... It's not just about "pass attempt totals". That's not even my big gripe here. It's about down/distance and the scenarios in which we're passing or not passing on. Running the ball on 3rd and longs is forfeiting possessions and the reason why we were so shitty in the T.O.P. and 3rd down conversions

No, I agree with that.

I'm only arguing against the pass attempt totals thing.

However, I just watched a 3rd & 8 with 8:02 left in the 2nd. We've got 5 guys in the box, run a draw out of the shot-gun & can't pick up a yard.

That's pathetic & worth working on for the play-offs.
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Old 12-25-2011   #71
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Default Re: On you Kubiak

I just went through the playbook (as I am watching the game again). We saw 3rd down 10 times. 6 of those times we passed the ball, or attempted to. 1 of the runs was a draw, which I have no problem with. Another was right after Yates got rocked on a Winston allowed sack when he had help to the outside...... I don't have a problem with that one either.

So that leaves two other occasions we ran the ball on 3rd & long. The first one @8:59 in the first qtr & the last one @2:29 in the 4th.


I don't think it is as big an issue as what it's being made out to be.
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Old 12-25-2011   #72
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Default Re: On you Kubiak

I also just watched a 2nd & 11 play, with 14:24 left in the 4th. A quick 3 step drop to try to hit Walter on a quick come back route. Vickers is playing offset, to the right. The ball is snapped, Everything looks good up front, except Caldwell is facing two guys coming right at him. He takes the inside guy (which I think he is supposed to do) but Vickers thinks the inside guy is going to get through. He moves to his left really quick, which drives him into Tj. Tj pulls the ball down, luckily saving the fumble, tries to make something out of nothing & gets sacked.
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Old 12-25-2011   #73
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Default Re: On you Kubiak

Quote:
Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
i am looking at the play by play and i dont see it either, nor do i remeber it happening.

here we go.

1st possesion
run
run
TD

2nd
Run
pass/fumble

3rd
run
pass
3rd and 9 RUN
Punt

4th
pass for 29 yards
run
run
pass
pass pass
FG

5th
run
run
run
pass
punt

6th
pass
run
3rd and 8 run
punt

7th
pass
run
pass
punt

8th
pass
rush
pass
rush
2nd and 12 rush
pass
punt

9th
run
run
pass
3rd and 15 Run
punt

10th
pass
run/reverse
run
pass
pass
punt

11th
pass
run
pass
run
run
run
run
pass
run
pass
run
run
run
FG

12th
pass
pass

now i see NO 3 consecutive passes that led to a punt, i do however see A LOT of 3rd and 8+ runs.
but if u just go back and look at the play selection to me it is more than about 3rd downs.
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Old 12-25-2011   #74
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Default Re: On you Kubiak

Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post

So that leaves two other occasions we ran the ball on 3rd & long. The first one @8:59 in the first qtr & the last one @2:29 in the 4th.
I'm watching the last drive now. The Colts start using time outs with 3:29 left in the game. They use their final timeout with 2:29 to go. We are on the 16/17 yard line. We run the ball, to get the clock down to the 2:00 warning before kicking a field goal.

It's 3rd & 8, but I honestly have no problem with the call. We go up by 4, they haven't scored a TD all night.

I also just watched the whole game.... The flow looks good. I didn't then, & I don't find myself now saying, "Man we should be throwing the ball more."

16 pass attempts

23 runs by foster, the last 4 when we're definitely trying to run the clock down.

6 runs by Tate

1 run by Jacoby

1 run by Tj (which was probably supposed to be a pass attempt).

I can unequivocally say I don't have a problem with the way the game was called.
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Old 12-26-2011   #75
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Default Re: On you Kubiak

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I can unequivocally say I don't have a problem with the way the game was called.
I agree.

You call a draw (or a screen) when you think the defense is going to blitz & play man coverage. On that 3rd & 8, he probably thought they were going to bring a blitz... but I don't recall if they actually did or not? Either way, I have no problem with the call. It's one of those... if it works, he's a genius and made a brilliant call. If it fails, people will say "what the *******!?".
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Old 12-26-2011   #76
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I agree.

You call a draw (or a screen) when you think the defense is going to blitz & play man coverage. On that 3rd & 8, he probably thought they were going to bring a blitz... but I don't recall if they actually did or not? Either way, I have no problem with the call. It's one of those... if it works, he's a genius and made a brilliant call. If it fails, people will say "what the *******!?".
You can still call something a bad call even if it succeeds just like if a basketball player takes a horrible shot. Even if it goes in its still a horrible shot.

That decision to go conservative go up 4 is only good for me because it forced then to need a TD. I personally would have called something to take us past the first down marker though. Can't call those lame runs.

But it was actually ultimately a successful call, even if it may have been a "bad one" or one I wouldn't have personally made. Ran time off if I recall correctly, forced them to score a TD, and if the refs weren't completely ****ing stupid, the game was over multiple times. If we didn't end up making it a TD game, they were going to kick a FG much more easily.

I personally think all of it is overblown. We had the lead, whatever it was and the game was done. Not our fault the game wasn't done. And like I've said multiple times, yeah you could say "Oh, it shouldn't have come down to that anyway" but that's utopian, pie- in-the-sky nonsense and we were.

Kubiak has "turned Yates loose" before so I dont think it's a trust issue. Has to be due to Andre or, as I also mentioned, the recent success in the running game against the Colts.
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Old 12-26-2011   #77
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Default Re: On you Kubiak

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
Scrub offenses, yes, but we're scoring 17, 24, & 30 points on top 10 defenses. There is only one good offense in the AFC play-offs this year & we won't see them until the AFC Championship game.
That really doesn't comfort me. We just let an absolutely terrible offense squeak past us for a win. If our own offense can barely score points then all bets are off facing teams in the playoffs regardless of offensive output.
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Old 12-26-2011   #78
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Default Re: On you Kubiak

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That really doesn't comfort me. We just let an absolutely terrible offense squeak past us for a win. If our own offense can barely score points then all bets are off facing teams in the playoffs regardless of offensive output.
Terrible offense?

Our offense is not the 11th rank offense in the league, regardless what our stats say. If we continue to play, the way we are, we would slip closer to the 20th ranked offense in the league.

Dan O didn't look bad facing the #2 defense in the league. If the season was longer than 16 games for them, I think their offensive production would increase. Wayne, Garcon, Collie... looked good & that OL was not horrible. If they can bring that kind of emotion to the rest of the league, I think they'd win more games. Next week, they play the Jags, I bet they beat the Jags.

But, you miss my point alltogether.

The object here, is to run this game plan but score more points. This is the same game plan that put up good point totals against good defenses.

That was with Matt Schaub, this will be with Tj Yates. Think of these last 5 games as preseason. Time to perfect our game plan, to run when they don't want us to run, to force our will on opposing defenses & efficiently score lots of points.

Think of it this way. If losing to the Colts & Titans mean that our offense would be more like it was with Schaub, would you take that trade? Not guaranteeing a win, but we have the same offensive production we have with Matt, averaging 26-27 points, taking big shots down field? winning the T.O.P. by big margins.
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