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Old 12-23-2011   #21
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Default Re: Perspective on the loss

I couldn't watch the game. WHAT happened?
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Old 12-23-2011   #22
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Default Re: Perspective on the loss

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Originally Posted by ObsiWan View Post
Nearly every pass play has multiple routes. At least one of those routes is downfield to move the safeties back. You've watched plenty of football so I know you know this. Yates deciding not to take a chance and go deep more often is totally his decision. Neither Kubiak nor Dennison have an X-Box controller that dictates where Yates decides to go with the pass. That's on Yates. Simply put, his rookieness was showing. ...
First, it's poor form to go to the "you should know this" card. Second, it's pretty darn rare to have a deep route on a 3 step drop. Other than the rollouts (which were good calls), Yates mainly was dealing from 3 steps. Which with the secondary sitting on the run and the short routes, just wasn't there. Maybe a vet checks into a deep route when seeing that defense. But at some point, Kubiak should have setup a deep pass off play action on a 1st or 2nd down.

It was a poorly called game by the Texans. Why is it such a sin to state that? It's not like I'm calling for the guys head.
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Old 12-23-2011   #23
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Default Re: Perspective on the loss

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
Charlie Palilo said we could fall to the fourth seed if we lose to the Titans and the Broncos win out. I have not checked the math on it, so take it fwiw.
I think the Broncos win on strength of victory.
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Old 12-23-2011   #24
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Default Re: Perspective on the loss

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Converting only 1 of 10 on 3rd down is a telling statistic.
They're 3 of 19 in the last 2 games, BTW.
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Old 12-23-2011   #25
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Default Re: Perspective on the loss

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Originally Posted by kiwitexansfan View Post
Can you give me some?

In my mind right now, this is the second worse loss in Texans history.

The worst being the loss to the Browns that meant our 7-8 team finished 7-9 instead of 8-8 and our first not losing season, in what I want to say was 2005.

Was it this bad or am I still feeling overly emotional?
We lost to the worst team in the NFL, we have played like crap for 3 games in a row, and we are not exactly "hitting our stride" as we head into the playoffs.
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Old 12-24-2011   #26
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Default Re: Perspective on the loss

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
First, it's poor form to go to the "you should know this" card. Second, it's pretty darn rare to have a deep route on a 3 step drop. Other than the rollouts (which were good calls), Yates mainly was dealing from 3 steps. Which with the secondary sitting on the run and the short routes, just wasn't there. Maybe a vet checks into a deep route when seeing that defense. But at some point, Kubiak should have setup a deep pass off play action on a 1st or 2nd down.

It was a poorly called game by the Texans. Why is it such a sin to state that? It's not like I'm calling for the guys head.
It's poor form to compliment you on your football knowledge? The word "should" is no where in my post. I said "I know you know this" based on the knowledgable posts I've seen from you. I make no apologies for complimenting you. Sorry if you took it differently.

Anyway... moving on.

Yates had most of his successful completions on first down throws. So Kubiak did use those throughout the game. That's when Yates hit KW for 29 yds and hit Dreessen for 16. He hit Jacoby for 17 during the first drive of the 2nd half. The fact that Foster was busting off double-digit runs made those first down throws work.

Should they have tried to strike deeper against that Tampa 2 zone? Without the All-22 view its hard to say if there were legit opportunities in the coverage to do so. Yates made the throws he thought were there.

Hard to go deep when your RT can't reliably do his job. Hard to get a rhythm to set up that play-action deep throw when we can't stay on the field due to sacks.

I wish I hadn't deleted the game film; now that I'm calm I'd like another look. But man I was really p!ssed. Maybe it'll be an NFLN replay game.
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Old 12-24-2011   #27
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Default Re: Perspective on the loss

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
What else is telling is that the Texans only dropped back to pass on 5 of those 3rd downs. And one of those was a 3rd and 1. Laying all of the missed 3rd down conversions at Yates' feet is just inaccurate.

This is unspinnable. Kubiak went ultra-conservative. And the Texans lost. Maybe they would have still lost had they let Yates open it up a bit? I'm talking maybe 6-7 more passes, a couple of those downfield. Maybe they would have won? We'll never know. What we are pretty sure about is that a gameplan like this that can't beat the hapless Colts won't beat a playoff team.
I picked this quote of yours because it leads into another telling fact, as well:

There's this way a quarterback takes the ball, and it's called "shotgun." Imagine that, folks. This is a way that you can let your QB scan the field when he has too much pressure in his grill. But guess what?

Yates took two sacks before they put in him shotgun. It was 3-8 and the play was handed off to Foster for a gain of 1. Punt, with 7:57 to go in the 2nd quarter.

The next time Yates was in shotgun was 3-14, 11:15 in the 3rd quarter w/ a 3 yard pass to Foster. Field goal by Rackers.

Yates took 2 more sacks before they put him in shotgun again at the 13:49 mark in the 4th quarter. 3-13, a 9 yard pass to Foster. Punt!

Yates did not get in shotgun again until 3:28 in the 4th quarter. A 10 yard completion to JJ. He wouldn't see shotgun again until the :14 and :07 mark when it was too late.

So that's really 4 times in the gun, in the normal course of play, and one of those being a run. TJ Yates threw the ball 3 times out of the gun w/ an offensive line that the coaches could see was not protecting him.

Compare that to 10 times in the gun against the Panthers, 24 times against Cincy.
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Old 12-24-2011   #28
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Default Re: Perspective on the loss

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Originally Posted by EVOLVIST View Post
I picked this quote of yours because it leads into another telling fact, as well:

There's this way a quarterback takes the ball, and it's called "shotgun." Imagine that, folks. This is a way that you can let your QB scan the field when he has too much pressure in his grill. But guess what?

Yates took two sacks before they put in him shotgun. It was 3-8 and the play was handed off to Foster for a gain of 1. Punt, with 7:57 to go in the 2nd quarter.

The next time Yates was in shotgun was 3-14, 11:15 in the 3rd quarter w/ a 3 yard pass to Foster. Field goal by Rackers.

Yates took 2 more sacks before they put him in shotgun again at the 13:49 mark in the 4th quarter. 3-13, a 9 yard pass to Foster. Punt!

Yates did not get in shotgun again until 3:28 in the 4th quarter. A 10 yard completion to JJ. He wouldn't see shotgun again until the :14 and :07 mark when it was too late.

So that's really 4 times in the gun, in the normal course of play, and one of those being a run. TJ Yates threw the ball 3 times out of the gun w/ an offensive line that the coaches could see was not protecting him.

Compare that to 10 times in the gun against the Panthers, 24 times against Cincy.
You neglected to include in your breakdown that Yates had most of his success by throwing on early downs and out of the non-shotgun formation.

You also neglected to mention that we were playing from behind when we lined up in shotgun formation in both of those games.

Playing from behind, everyone in the stadium knows you're going to pass. In the Indy game, we were playing with the lead so the threat of running the ball could not be ignored. Especially the way Foster was gashing them on 1st down. The fact that the Colts had to respect Foster and were still getting to Yates on play action shows how bad the right side of the line was being owned. And the examples you sited tells me that going to the shotgun formation wasn't helping.

The more we break this down, the more it becomes apparent that it was O-line play that cost us this game more than any bad plays by Yates.
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