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Old 10-13-2005   #41
mean mark8
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Let's simply take a look at the solution the Texans started with to our offensive ineptness. They promote our O-line coach to offensive coordinator. Hello!!! The offensive line has been for crud since we put one together. Actually, Pendry only coached the guards and center, another guy coached the tackles. The tackles coach is now the coach for the entire O-line. Hello!!! The tackles are the two players on the line that have given up the most sacks, by the record, on the O-line this year. Does any of this make sense to any of you?? Promotion of bad coaching is not a solution to any problem. This looks like the organization hasn't got a clue what's right and what's wrong with the team and that's the coaches' lack of ability.
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Old 10-13-2005   #42
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
Yes, Vinny and that's why I would opt to bring in someone like Dan Reeves who has had some up and downs, but he would be a good interim replacement and a possible long term solution. I just think we are doing more damage than good by continuing down our current path. We need fundamental change and right now. Sorry, we will disagree as usual, but respectfully......................
OMG, please not Dan Reeves. He held back every offense he ever touched. Look at Elway's numbers for 56 minutes of every game Reeves ever coached and you'll see how he held him back. Only in the last 2 minutes of each half could Elway play Elway ball. Reeves would still be trying to make Vick throw exclusively from the pocket. Reeves is the secret twin-brother of Capers. Please, just say no to Dan Reeves.

I'd say someone who could change the player attitudes because he's done it before is Jerry Glanville. We'd only want him to come in for a year or two to give our team some swagger. Then can him when he goes nuts on us.

Last edited by mean mark8; 10-13-2005 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 10-13-2005   #43
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Jerry Glanville?
Yup . . that's all we need. Let's bring the old Stagger Lee to this 1st class organization.
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Old 10-13-2005   #44
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Originally Posted by Double Barrel
You can opine that it is a "cop out" all you want, but please show me where, exactly, this team has played with any desire and fire in four games. Maybe your deep insight can educate all of us regular fans that just don't see it.

Lack of talent? Perhaps, I won't argue with you.
If you won't dispute that fact that there is a lack of talent, then how in the world can you tell the difference between lack of talent, and lack of fire and desire?
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Originally Posted by Double Barrel
But you simply cannot deny that they have played flat the first four games of this season (even going back to last season, as well).
Why are you trying to take something simple and make it complicated? :brickwall

They have exactly the same problems now, as they did last season. The can't protect the QB on offense, and they can't rush the QB on defense.

What's the difference between this season and last? Nothing, except maybe you and everyone else's over-inflated expectations.
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Old 10-13-2005   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel
You can opine that it is a "cop out" all you want, but please show me where, exactly, this team has played with any desire and fire in four games. .
DB,

I strongly feel the Texans did have desire for and during the Cincy game. The ref seemed to have taken that away on the so called Carr fumble.
Seemed like we came out with some desire in the Titan game. we were really outcoached. They saw something at half time made adjustments and kicked out butt the second half. Our coaches aren't caple of making halftime adjustments, or so it seems.

bobby 119C :brickwall
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Old 10-13-2005   #46
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What's the difference between this season and last? Nothing, except maybe you and everyone else's over-inflated expectations.
Marcus, with all due respect, you are blowing it out of your assumption if you wish to accuse me of "over-inflated expectations".

Is hoping for an 8-8 season over-inflated? I believe a .500 season was definitely realistic by anyone's measure, including the Texans front office, coaching staff, and media (many in the press had us 9-7 and competing for a wildcard. I never even considered this team a playoff contender this year).

Perhaps you are blindly generalizing me with other posters/fans, I don't know. But you are definitely making a grand assumption based upon your own perceptions, and not on the reality of anything I've advocated in the past.

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If you won't dispute that fact that there is a lack of talent, then how in the world can you tell the difference between lack of talent, and lack of fire and desire?
I didn't say I would not dispute it. I just said that I'm not going to argue it with you in this thread. The word "perhaps" indicates that I'm granting that possibility to your stated position.

However, it really has no bearing, because a team can lack talent and still play above it's potential, and by the same token, teams can be loaded with talent but fail to reach their potential because they lack the fire. (examples abound throughout sports history!)

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They have exactly the same problems now, as they did last season. The can't protect the QB on offense, and they can't rush the QB on defense.
I find it interesting that you are proving the point that Capers' time has come and gone, regardless of the position you wish to advocate.

Based upon your premise that the team lacks talent, doesn't this just prove the point that Capers and crew have failed at evaluating talent and signed players that should not have been considered for the team?

Regardless of how you frame it, the coaches have failed. Either through failure to inspire talented players, or by building a team of no talent hacks.

Pick your poison, because, either way, it kills you in the end.
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Old 10-13-2005   #47
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Originally Posted by touttail
DB,

I strongly feel the Texans did have desire for and during the Cincy game. The ref seemed to have taken that away on the so called Carr fumble.
Seemed like we came out with some desire in the Titan game. we were really outcoached. They saw something at half time made adjustments and kicked out butt the second half. Our coaches aren't caple of making halftime adjustments, or so it seems.

bobby 119C :brickwall
I respect that, even if I might disagree with part of it. Afterall, it is perception on all our parts. I have no doubt that individual players want to win, and see signs of fire and desire in individual players.

But as a team, they lack cohesion. They've been flat. I think this is coaching, or lack thereof, because they don't seem inspired anymore.

Remember when we beat the Carolina Panthers and took the New England Patriots to overtime in the same season? They were clearly better teams than us, both making it all the way to the SuperBowl. But we played with heart and desire, and we, as fans, believed that we could beat anyone on any given Sunday. We proved it that year in just those two games.

Do ya'll honestly feel this year's team has that attitude?

I'm asking as a fellowship of fans, because I really want to see it if you do. I want to see what I'm missing, and I'd welcome your input to help elevate my own perceptions.

As far as being out coached, I'd have to agree. The simple fact that there was animosity between our OC and HC, between our OC and QB, indicates that all was/is not well within the leadership of the Texans. I don't think situations like that translate too well into cohesive gameday decisions.
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Old 10-13-2005   #48
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IF the Texans went on a 4-0 winning streak or after this next loss, a 5-0 winning streak, would everyone feel a little better? Most would. I expected the Texans to have a losing season this year, for the people who expected more it must really be getting to them. It was all right there in front of you before the season. No o-line upgrade, same bad offensive system, no good TE's were drafted or acquired, the o-line was shifted around for the 4th time, Our defense has new personnel which equates to a longer learning curve, our best CB was given the boot and replaced by a nickel QB to go head to head with our oppositions best WR, our LB's are starting new positions, our defensive front wasn't upgraded and we lost our best nickel guy. This should not be something that people were looking forward to as "progress."

All that being said, it takes time for the defense to come around with so many new faces and players not in those same positions as last year. What this means is, we should be getting better right around this game and the arrow should be pointed up. When that starts happening then maybe our offense will benefit from some of the effectiveness our defensive will have. One glaring stat is that K Brown has only kicked 5 FG's in 4 games. Those cheap points off of turnovers are sorely needed and I think they will start coming.
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Old 10-13-2005   #49
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Quote:
Do you know this for a fact, or is it pure conjecture on your part?
DB I sent you a PM on this.

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Which teams were those (0-4)??? I can answer this one. There weren't any! The Packers did start 1-4 and made the playoffs, but you are making this sound like a common occurrence.
you know what, I'll take the hit on that one. No it isn't a common occurance. But it has been done. By the Chargers one year, the Bills another, the Cowboys a couple of years ago. But the main point of that remark was that it isn't an impossibility for the Texans to turn the corner and pull off a playoff spot, even with an 0-4 record to date. I am not going to toss the rest of this season into the trash can and call it finished. That is a quitter mentality and will do absolutely nothing good for anyone, fans, players, coach's, no one, IMHO.

The NFL is too close across the board in talent level. We have been blown out of most games. But if you stop, collect yourself and actually analyze the games, you can actually see where if we would have gotten just one break here or there, the entire game would have looked far better. The Carr fumble in the Bengals game. The offsides penalty late in the 3rd Qtr to give the Steelers a first down on 3rd and 4, , and should have resulted in a punt, as the play did get ran and we stopped it short, and the very next play was a 60 yard pass. There have been one or two penalty's, missed opportunities, or just plain bad luck that have dramatically changed most of our games outcome. Unfortunately we just can't buy a break lately. But it really isn't as bad as it seems initially.

I am just as frustrated and ticked off as the board is. But I am NOT, not now, nor EVER going to demand that some action be taken that I KNOW is going to mean we just QUIT on the season. We do what Carr does when he gets sacked. We pick our heads up, dust off our hinney, and get back into the huddle, and call the next play. We do NOT take ourselves out of the game and go sit on a bench on the sidelines. We do NOT quit. Not now, not ever.

Most of the board members were thinking in the offseason of an 8-8 record. a .500 record. We can still get there. I am not sure how, but it is achievable. Fire Capers or Casserly and we all realize it is NOT only not achievable, but almost impossible to do so.

Last edited by thegr8fan; 10-13-2005 at 04:42 PM.
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Old 10-13-2005   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double Barrel
I find it interesting that you are proving the point that Capers' time has come and gone, regardless of the position you wish to advocate.

Based upon your premise that the team lacks talent, doesn't this just prove the point that Capers and crew have failed at evaluating talent and signed players that should not have been considered for the team?

Regardless of how you frame it, the coaches have failed. Either through failure to inspire talented players, or by building a team of no talent hacks.

Pick your poison, because, either way, it kills you in the end.
The coaches and the staff have failed by building a team of no talent hacks, not by the failure to inspire talented players.

There is a very important difference between the two. If you think it's a failure to inspire talent, then you are deluded into thinking about the quick fix. Just fire everybody, and instantly the problem is solved. That's the copout route. But if you accept the fact that it's a team of no talent hacks, then you accept the fact that it will be years before we have a decent team.

The "fire and desire" thing is so overrated.
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Old 10-13-2005   #51
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I can only tell you this, I have met Pete (aka. thegr8fan) and he is dead on with seemingly every interpretation I have asked him about. He is just that a GREAT fan, and I for one respect what his opinions are and try to ask him questions when we watch the games here in Austin at the Saxon Pub. By him taking the stand he has within this thread, it merely shows me how much it pains him to see the results on the field. I for one agree, leave staus quo as is now.

The season is merely a quarter down and there may be some light at the end of the tunnel and I will maintain faith that things will turn around eventually. We will not see a 2, 5, or even 10 year period of losing like this such as other organizations have experienced and that is enough for me.

If the season maintains along this path, then I certainly don't want Capers fired until after the season. If for no other reason that I am at every game and want to watch him squirm and be held accountable for the whole train wreck we are witnessing now.

And it at least allows me to ride his weak coaching skills and let him hear me, and believe me, from where I sit he does. Nothing better than preaching the truth about his lack of emotion, fire, and motivational tactics and having players like Orr and Peek turn around and grin. It will end soon if not eventually.

And Pete is merely trying to enlighten some of you of the same.
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Old 10-14-2005   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegr8fan
DB I sent you a PM on this.
Thanks, man. Much appreciated. 'nuff said!

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegr8fan
I am not going to toss the rest of this season into the trash can and call it finished. That is a quitter mentality and will do absolutely nothing good for anyone, fans, players, coach's, no one, IMHO.

<snip>

I am just as frustrated and ticked off as the board is. But I am NOT, not now, nor EVER going to demand that some action be taken that I KNOW is going to mean we just QUIT on the season. We do what Carr does when he gets sacked. We pick our heads up, dust off our hinney, and get back into the huddle, and call the next play. We do NOT take ourselves out of the game and go sit on a bench on the sidelines. We do NOT quit. Not now, not ever.

Most of the board members were thinking in the offseason of an 8-8 record. a .500 record. We can still get there. I am not sure how, but it is achievable. Fire Capers or Casserly and we all realize it is NOT only not achievable, but almost impossible to do so.
I agree about firing the HC mid-season. It is unproductive, unprofessional, and to be honest, is too similar to something Bud Adams does throughout the history of the Oilers. Better to distance ourselves from that kind of attitude, unless we want our team infected with it.

And yeah, firing our HC right now does mean we've quit just four games into a season. Anything is possible four games into it, we just have to balance it with what is probable.

ps. Come January 2006, though, and the gloves are off. Depending on the next 12 games, I think it is in our right as fanatics to desire change in leadership if this season should tank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus
The coaches and the staff have failed by building a team of no talent hacks, not by the failure to inspire talented players.

There is a very important difference between the two. If you think it's a failure to inspire talent, then you are deluded into thinking about the quick fix. Just fire everybody, and instantly the problem is solved. That's the copout route. But if you accept the fact that it's a team of no talent hacks, then you accept the fact that it will be years before we have a decent team.

The "fire and desire" thing is so overrated.
You want to know where I'm coming from? The fact that this team, under Coach Capers, played inspired ball the first three seasons. We beat teams that were much, much better than us, and I think it is because they were inspired to do so and believed in the system.

We weren't better than the Carolina Panthers in 2003. They were a SuperBowl caliber team. We took the NFL Champions that same year to OT! Not because we had better talent, but because of fire.

I certainly understand why you feel the desire to fire everyone now is a copout (and again, I want to wait and see what happens, then make decisions like that in the off-season).

But we'll have to respectfully agree to disagree, because I think this team does have talent. They're just not playing on the same page right now, which, IMO, is a product of failed coaching.

I do appreciate the informative opinions from you dudes, though, because it educates and strengthens my own positions. It's all good.
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