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Old 12-09-2011   #1
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Default Priority needs for 2012 Texans

List what you think Texans need by position and why. Don't just say nose tackle or WR or inside linebacker but why you think it is priority and what level the need is.
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Old 12-09-2011   #2
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Default Re: Priority needs for 2012 Texans

1. WR -- We need a better #2 and a player to groom to grow into the #1 spot. This should be a big, fast WR so I think we've got to go early here.

2. G -- I think the weaknesses in our offensive line are Wade Smith and Mike Brisiel. They're working well together as a unit but I think it can be improved.

3. ILB -- At first, this is about getting rid of Dobbins. But if we could get a guy who can play better than Demeco has been or just better than Sharpton, I'll be fine with that.

4. DT -- Note, NOT NT. I don't think we're going to see a big, immoveable NT in this defense. But if there's a dominating penetrating 4-3 DT, we would be in the market for him. He'd have to beat out Cody and Mitchell, though.

But, personally, after round 1 which should be WR, I think we should go BPA.
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Old 12-09-2011   #3
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Default Re: Priority needs for 2012 Texans

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
1. WR -- We need a better #2 and a player to groom to grow into the #1 spot. This should be a big, fast WR so I think we've got to go early here.

2. G -- I think the weaknesses in our offensive line are Wade Smith and Mike Brisiel. They're working well together as a unit but I think it can be improved.

3. ILB -- At first, this is about getting rid of Dobbins. But if we could get a guy who can play better than Demeco has been or just better than Sharpton, I'll be fine with that.

4. DT -- Note, NOT NT. I don't think we're going to see a big, immoveable NT in this defense. But if there's a dominating penetrating 4-3 DT, we would be in the market for him. He'd have to beat out Cody and Mitchell, though.

But, personally, after round 1 which should be WR, I think we should go BPA.
Ok, we draft WR in first. What OG available in late second round would beat out Wade Smith or Brisiel? Zeitler, maybe there but he would not start first year imo.
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Old 12-09-2011   #4
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Default Re: Priority needs for 2012 Texans

1) WR.... Johnson and Walter are getting old and injury prone. Jacoby's not Andre!

2) NT.... Cody's been good this year but he's almost 30. How many more years can he take the pounding? Mitchell is only backup and he's too lite for the position IMO. Think he would be better suited at DE in a 3-4 or DT in a 4-3.

3) ILB... Ryans is still good but he has definitely fallen off some since his injury. Sharpton was only real depth and he's on IR now. We need more depth!

4) S..... We've had our best Safety play ever with Manning, GQ, and Demps but when Barber went on IR and Manning broke his leg we were pretty thin back there. Good thing Demps was still available. We could probably get a late pick for this and develop him on the PS or maybe he'll be good enough to knock Barber off the team.

5) QB.... I'm not real set on this and a lot depends on how TJ does the rest of the way and also on Leinart. Did he sign a 2 year deal? Will his collarbone be healed enough? With Schaub's and Leinart's injury history Kubes may want to bring in another QB.

That's my priority needs for the Texans in 2012. Not sure if they will be big players in FA due to $ constraints but they could free up some $ if they don't resign Mario. JMHO!
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Old 12-09-2011   #5
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Default Re: Priority needs for 2012 Texans

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1) WR.... Johnson and Walter are getting old and injury prone. Jacoby's not Andre!

2) NT.... Cody's been good this year but he's almost 30. How many more years can he take the pounding? Mitchell is only backup and he's too lite for the position IMO. Think he would be better suited at DE in a 3-4 or DT in a 4-3.

3) ILB... Ryans is still good but he has definitely fallen off some since his injury. Sharpton was only real depth and he's on IR now. We need more depth!

4) S..... We've had our best Safety play ever with Manning, GQ, and Demps but when Barber went on IR and Manning broke his leg we were pretty thin back there. Good thing Demps was still available. We could probably get a late pick for this and develop him on the PS or maybe he'll be good enough to knock Barber off the team.

5) QB.... I'm not real set on this and a lot depends on how TJ does the rest of the way and also on Leinart. Did he sign a 2 year deal? Will his collarbone be healed enough? With Schaub's and Leinart's injury history Kubes may want to bring in another QB.

That's my priority needs for the Texans in 2012. Not sure if they will be big players in FA due to $ constraints but they could free up some $ if they don't resign Mario. JMHO!
Thanks for your info. Do you agree Mitchell looking much better? He seemed to be much more active against Atlanta. Do you see Wade drafting a Nose with a second round pick?

Do you see Ryans better or the same after his cast comes off? WIll MArio returning decrease pressure on Demeco and the need to draft an ILB?
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Old 12-10-2011   #6
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Default Re: Priority needs for 2012 Texans

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Ok, we draft WR in first. What OG available in late second round would beat out Wade Smith or Brisiel? Zeitler, maybe there but he would not start first year imo.
I thought we were just talking about needs. I haven't really geared up for the draft, yet.

But for right now, consider it a competition/project pick. Getting someone in there to battle for the spot and to push the guys. This line has chemistry from having worked together so anyone taken shouldn't be expected to break the starting lineup immediately but rather.

I don't think our top two draft picks need to break the starting lineup anymore.

Zeitler, Osemele, Glenn, and Miller -- those are the guys that are in the mix at this point but I don't know which ones of them (if any) fit our scheme or how they'll do at the combine.
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Old 12-10-2011   #7
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Default Re: Priority needs for 2012 Texans

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2) NT.... Cody's been good this year but he's almost 30. How many more years can he take the pounding? Mitchell is only backup and he's too lite for the position IMO. Think he would be better suited at DE in a 3-4 or DT in a 4-3.
I think a 4-3 DT is exactly what Wade wants at the nose. He wants a penetrator. He doesn't want the big guy that everyone's been asking for (I include myself in that everyone).

I think we all need to back away from the NT requirement because I don't think Wade's defense uses it.

Unless a really, really good one falls to us.
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Old 12-10-2011   #8
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Default Re: Priority needs for 2012 Texans

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
1. WR -- We need a better #2 and a player to groom to grow into the #1 spot. This should be a big, fast WR so I think we've got to go early here.

2. G -- I think the weaknesses in our offensive line are Wade Smith and Mike Brisiel. They're working well together as a unit but I think it can be improved.

3. ILB -- At first, this is about getting rid of Dobbins. But if we could get a guy who can play better than Demeco has been or just better than Sharpton, I'll be fine with that.

4. DT -- Note, NOT NT. I don't think we're going to see a big, immoveable NT in this defense. But if there's a dominating penetrating 4-3 DT, we would be in the market for him. He'd have to beat out Cody and Mitchell, though.

But, personally, after round 1 which should be WR, I think we should go BPA.
I pretty much agree with your assessment .... and in the correct order.

AJ's been hurt an awful lot .... I might take a WR in the1st @ 4th rounds tbh.

False Start on #65 ..... James you may need to change that 69 to 65.

ILB ..... You can never have enough good LB's.


NT/DT Cody's been spectacular in the middle ..... Mitchell hasnt been bad but games are won and lost in the trenches and if one of them were to go down ..... there's nothing behind them.


Toss in a RB in the late rounds ..... just for depth.
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Old 12-10-2011   #9
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Default Re: Priority needs for 2012 Texans

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Toss in a RB in the late rounds ..... just for depth.
^^^^ This, too.
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Old 12-10-2011   #10
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Default Re: Priority needs for 2012 Texans

1. WR, I have to agree with the consensus opinion here. AJ is getting older and has been injured alot this year, Walter has been disappointing this year not near the production he had a couple years ago, and Jacoby is what he is a #4 WR who'll make an ESPN highlight play followed up by 3-4 bonehead plays or drops he's just not worth the roster spot. The rest of WR corp are roster filler nothing special. A top notch WR would take pressure off of AJ and make life for the whole offense better by spreading the defense thinner.

2. NT, for all the wonderful skill position players on the field that make the highlight reels football still has it's foundation on what happens in the trenches. Cody has played well lately but started the year off slowly and Mitchell isn't a 1 gap or 2 gap NT, he should be moved outside to DE for added depth after getting a real NT that can hold the point of attack against a double team but can also penetrate on occasion. A real NT will also take alot of pressure off the ILB's freeing them to make plays.

3. OG/C, again football has it's foundation in the trenches and a team is only good if they can control the line of scrimmage. Our O-line has played well this year for the most part but Winston is getting older, has trouble with OLB speed rushers and has short arms. Winston is effective but not spectacular. Smith, Briesel, and Caldwell are all effective but nothing special, they'd be great quality backups. Myers has played great this year but we all know that he has trouble with huge NT's, I really wish he could add 10-20 lbs. of muscle without losing athleticism. Our O-line could use some upgrades.

4. ILB, Cushing is outstanding, Demeco was great but has now been slowed by injury and we're uncertain is he'll ever get back to his old self, Dobbins is effective depth only, and Sharpton should be replaced he has the heart but not the size for the position. ILB's have to be large and tough to take on OG's, FB's, and RB's. I agree with keeping Demeco for another year to see if he can improve while also paying out more of his guaranteed money and lessening the financial hit if we cut him after next season due to diminished play. This needs some high quality depth.

5. SS/FS, Manning and Quin have been great but their backups are late round picks or street FA's. Nolan and Demps have played well this year but just like ILB an overall talent upgrade in the backups is needed and Barber should be gone. I think the Texans should consider moving Jason Allen or McMannis to Safety depth, Allen has the size, closing speed, and seems to have the instinct for the position and we could improve the quality of depth without using a pick in the draft.

6. P, Hartmann was playing very well until his ACL injury. I'm not sure how ACL injuries affect Punters but the battle of field position is important. We need a guy who can punt deep but also have directional accuracy.

7. RB, I think we let Derrick Ward walk after this season to save some money so we'll need a #3 RB.

8. FB, Casey is a "jack of all traits and master of none" he can fill in at several positions but he's depth only, Vickers is a good FB but we could probably get someone in the draft just as good but cheaper. We need the next Vonta Leach, a tank that can make holes in the defense a guy who can run the ball on occasion but more importantly who can catch a pass on occasion as well.

9. DE, just like ILB and SS/FS we have good starters but need better quality depth. I think picking a good NT will free us up to move Mitchell to DE.

***OLB is dependent on if Mario returns, if he does then we can skip this in the draft, if he leaves then OLB depth should be a 3rd or 4th round priority.

***CB, we obviously need to get better but KJ has been playing much better this year, Allen is effective depth, and we still don't know what we have in Harris and Carmichael. Needs here are dependent on the development of our younger players.
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Old 12-10-2011   #11
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Default Re: Priority needs for 2012 Texans

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I thought we were just talking about needs. I haven't really geared up for the draft, yet.

But for right now, consider it a competition/project pick. Getting someone in there to battle for the spot and to push the guys. This line has chemistry from having worked together so anyone taken shouldn't be expected to break the starting lineup immediately but rather.

I don't think our top two draft picks need to break the starting lineup anymore.

Zeitler, Osemele, Glenn, and Miller -- those are the guys that are in the mix at this point but I don't know which ones of them (if any) fit our scheme or how they'll do at the combine.
Good info. I am using all sources to help me develop my mock. Appreciate your insight.
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Old 12-10-2011   #12
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Default Re: Priority needs for 2012 Texans

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Originally Posted by Wolf6151 View Post
1. WR, I have to agree with the consensus opinion here. AJ is getting older and has been injured alot this year, Walter has been disappointing this year not near the production he had a couple years ago, and Jacoby is what he is a #4 WR who'll make an ESPN highlight play followed up by 3-4 bonehead plays or drops he's just not worth the roster spot. The rest of WR corp are roster filler nothing special. A top notch WR would take pressure off of AJ and make life for the whole offense better by spreading the defense thinner.

2. NT, for all the wonderful skill position players on the field that make the highlight reels football still has it's foundation on what happens in the trenches. Cody has played well lately but started the year off slowly and Mitchell isn't a 1 gap or 2 gap NT, he should be moved outside to DE for added depth after getting a real NT that can hold the point of attack against a double team but can also penetrate on occasion. A real NT will also take alot of pressure off the ILB's freeing them to make plays.

3. OG/C, again football has it's foundation in the trenches and a team is only good if they can control the line of scrimmage. Our O-line has played well this year for the most part but Winston is getting older, has trouble with OLB speed rushers and has short arms. Winston is effective but not spectacular. Smith, Briesel, and Caldwell are all effective but nothing special, they'd be great quality backups. Myers has played great this year but we all know that he has trouble with huge NT's, I really wish he could add 10-20 lbs. of muscle without losing athleticism. Our O-line could use some upgrades.

4. ILB, Cushing is outstanding, Demeco was great but has now been slowed by injury and we're uncertain is he'll ever get back to his old self, Dobbins is effective depth only, and Sharpton should be replaced he has the heart but not the size for the position. ILB's have to be large and tough to take on OG's, FB's, and RB's. I agree with keeping Demeco for another year to see if he can improve while also paying out more of his guaranteed money and lessening the financial hit if we cut him after next season due to diminished play. This needs some high quality depth.

5. SS/FS, Manning and Quin have been great but their backups are late round picks or street FA's. Nolan and Demps have played well this year but just like ILB an overall talent upgrade in the backups is needed and Barber should be gone. I think the Texans should consider moving Jason Allen or McMannis to Safety depth, Allen has the size, closing speed, and seems to have the instinct for the position and we could improve the quality of depth without using a pick in the draft.

6. P, Hartmann was playing very well until his ACL injury. I'm not sure how ACL injuries affect Punters but the battle of field position is important. We need a guy who can punt deep but also have directional accuracy.

7. RB, I think we let Derrick Ward walk after this season to save some money so we'll need a #3 RB.

8. FB, Casey is a "jack of all traits and master of none" he can fill in at several positions but he's depth only, Vickers is a good FB but we could probably get someone in the draft just as good but cheaper. We need the next Vonta Leach, a tank that can make holes in the defense a guy who can run the ball on occasion but more importantly who can catch a pass on occasion as well.

9. DE, just like ILB and SS/FS we have good starters but need better quality depth. I think picking a good NT will free us up to move Mitchell to DE.

***OLB is dependent on if Mario returns, if he does then we can skip this in the draft, if he leaves then OLB depth should be a 3rd or 4th round priority.

***CB, we obviously need to get better but KJ has been playing much better this year, Allen is effective depth, and we still don't know what we have in Harris and Carmichael. Needs here are dependent on the development of our younger players.
#2 I agree 100% and have said so on mocks and PMs. A solid NT will lengthen Demeco's career and take pressure off allowing him to make more significant plays. I think he is having to do more to help Dline rather than attack the runner.

#8 Chad Diehl FB:Clemson 6'2" 260 road grader never missed game (medical red shirt 2007) PURE BLOCKER and available 7th round
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Old 12-10-2011   #13
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Default Re: Priority needs for 2012 Texans

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#2 I agree 100% and have said so on mocks and PMs. A solid NT will lengthen Demeco's career and take pressure off allowing him to make more significant plays. I think he is having to do more to help Dline rather than attack the runner.

#8 Chad Diehl FB:Clemson 6'2" 260 road grader never missed game (medical red shirt 2007) PURE BLOCKER and available 7th round
#8, I like Cody Johnson better because he can block but he can also carry the ball and catch a pass, he's not as one dimensional as Diehl.
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Old 12-10-2011   #14
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Default Re: Priority needs for 2012 Texans

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Thanks for your info. Do you agree Mitchell looking much better? He seemed to be much more active against Atlanta. Do you see Wade drafting a Nose with a second round pick?

Do you see Ryans better or the same after his cast comes off? WIll MArio returning decrease pressure on Demeco and the need to draft an ILB?
Mitchell has been pretty good spotting Cody but I just feel he is too lite to keep taking the pounding year in and year out. If Cody goes down, who will spot Mitchell? We need depth. It's not about how Cody or Mitchell are playing, it's about depth at a position that, to me, is thin. And yes, I see Wade possibly drafting a NT in the 2nd. Not saying it will be a 330 pounder or anything, but maybe someone the size of Cody in the 300 to 310 range.

As for Ryans, I've seen some flashes of his old self but not many. I just hope he can come back next year and show everyone he's a 100%. Not sure I see how Mario coming back will decrease pressure on DeMeco and the need to draft a ILB. Whether or not Mario comes back I still think they need to draft an ILB.
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Old 12-10-2011   #15
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Default Re: Priority needs for 2012 Texans

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#8, I like Cody Johnson better because he can block but he can also carry the ball and catch a pass, he's not as one dimensional as Diehl.
Correct but he is nowhere near the blocker and will go much higher in draft. We don't need a FB to catch (see Vickers or Leach). We need a cannon ball smashing a path of distruction and one who can if needed carry the rock into the end zone right thru the middle.
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Old 12-10-2011   #16
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I think a 4-3 DT is exactly what Wade wants at the nose. He wants a penetrator. He doesn't want the big guy that everyone's been asking for (I include myself in that everyone).

I think we all need to back away from the NT requirement because I don't think Wade's defense uses it.

Unless a really, really good one falls to us.
I didn't say Wade would get a big NT. I just said they need someone bigger that Mitchell (289 lbs). Cody is listed as only 301 lbs. I think someone in the 300 to 310 lb range is what Wade may look for, which is still small for a true NT in the NFL today.

I do wonder though, if someone like Poe was there in the 2nd, would Wade go for him?
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Old 12-10-2011   #17
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Default Re: Priority needs for 2012 Texans

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Originally Posted by Insideop View Post
I didn't say Wade would get a big NT. I just said they need someone bigger that Mitchell (289 lbs). Cody is listed as only 301 lbs. I think someone in the 300 to 310 lb range is what Wade may look for, which is still small for a true NT in the NFL today.

I do wonder though, if someone like Poe was there in the 2nd, would Wade go for him?
I evaluate Dontari Poe as a run stopping hole plugger like Ta'Amu. Difference is Poe will eventually become a penetrator & why he is moving up boards and now rated by some including me as going higher than Ta'amu. If either are avail at our second, it wil be interesting if Wade moves on him.
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Old 12-10-2011   #18
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Default Re: Priority needs for 2012 Texans

We already have a FB that does it all (Casey) and Vickers while willing to stick his nose into the action isn't a great blocker and I think his contract was just for this year. Diehl is 6'2'' 265 4.7 40 former high school OL. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUeXvwtTpgE guy would be a perfect match blowing gaps open for Foster or Tate.

WR/TE
OG
DB
LB depth
FB
DL depth
WR depth
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Old 12-10-2011   #19
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Default Re: Priority needs for 2012 Texans

our 2012 needs.... hmmm....

1. ILB: Some one who can spell DeMeco and Cushing with little drop off in performance. I see that most folks want to go WR as first priority but I think having a great defense is more important to team success than great offense. I offer as evidence the comparison between our 2009 team and this year's team. In 2009, we had a stud offense and mediocre defense. This year we have a stud defense and an okay offense and we're on track to our first double-digit win season.

2. OLB: See above on the importance of defense. Whether Mario returns or not (and count me among those that hopes we keep him) we need another Brooks Reed type so when the starters need a blow, we don't have a drop off in effectiveness.

3. WR: As long as Kubiak is running the offense, AJ, KW, and JJ will be our 1, 2, & 3 WRs. But it doesn't hurt to get quality depth and maybe someone to push JJ for that #3 spot. Better make sure they can block because this ain't the Saints or the Packers, we are RUN FIRST.

4. DT: Someone to spell Cody and push (or replace) Mitchell as his backup. In Wade's system it's more important that the DT is active and disruptive rather than huge. If he's disruptive AND huge, so much the better.

5. OL: The O-line has been operating at a fairly high level for most of the year. But upgrades to the backups wouldn't hurt at all.

I'm not a draftnik so I have no idea who would fill these requirements but these are the spots that need addressing IMHO.
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Old 12-12-2011   #20
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Default Re: Priority needs for 2012 Texans

Thanks to all.
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