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Old 10-11-2005   #21
outofhnd
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Zone Blocking Works

Just not with our passing plays....

Look at the teams running the zone block and now look at the passing style of offense that they use....

If you said West Coast offense, then you are correct. Now lets break down the west coast passing attack. Short precise routes that tend to pick up small amounts of field. Receivers uaually are in the same general area so the QB can progress through his reads and unload the ball quickly.

We use an offense that has more stay in the pocket and look over the field and then get rid of the ball plays with slower developing routes and timing routes where the rec needs to be where carr puts the ball.

So what do you do? scrap the zone or do you scrap the passing playbook? neither in the middle of the season that is certain. Look for one of those to change this offseason.
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Old 10-11-2005   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigTEXan8
Because of the zone blocking scheme is the reason the o-line has given up 27 sacks this year. That's why Bullock went untouched through the middle of the line to get his sack on SUN.
Actually, The Bullock play was not the zone block scheme, by that logic McKinney should have immediately picked him up, And let the other guy go, since bullock was first thru the gap. What should have happened is Carr audibles for DD to stay in and pick up Bullock, while mcKinney picks up the next guy like he did. The Quandry lies in with the fact that we cant have DD be a safety valve if he is picking up the blitz but if he can allow more time, Is there another option than DD in the flat? there is some food for thought...
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Old 10-11-2005   #23
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What about putting Riley back at Right Tackle. That's what he has played his career at and is used to that position , he was and is not a Left Tackle.

bobby 119C :brickwall
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Old 10-11-2005   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
Wand at LT
Wiegert at LG
Washington at C
Pitts at RG
Wade at RT

On a more serious note I think playing Pitts on the opposite side would take advantage of his tendency to be aggressive. Wand would be better served by having an older consistant player to help him when he gets in trouble. I think Wand would learn a great deal from Wiegert and he would gain the confidence necessary to play the position. Wiegert would not be competing for the LT position like Pitts. I think Pitts is a problem from a personnel point of view and doesn't help Wand. Washington held his own long ago and I think would be better than McKinney with the other beef beside him. We need to close down the gaps and protect our QB. Let DD find the holes which he does well in year 2. We would be alright, but they won't try something like this.

I know you will probably be critical, but I think it would be a wiser use of our personnel. I would alternate Hodgen with Washington to give him game experience. Riley could occasionally sub for Wiegert. To me Wiegert would be the key person in this lineup.
I wouldn't mind Washington getting some playing time at center to see how he compares to McKinney. Wand at left tackle is good, I'm sure I surprise no one by agreeing with that. I wouldn't switch Weigert and Pitts because I'd like to see them stay where they have the most experience. This leaves Wade at RT, and he needs to get better; perhaps Riley is a better choice there but I haven't seen much from him at LT that makes me believe so, even if RT is his natural position.

As far as Pitts not "helping" Wand, I don't think this is an issue. The O-line needs to work as a unit, and if Pitts is doing less then he could because he wants to play LT, then the coaches should handle that by holding him accountable for bad play. Let me reiterate that I don't think Pitts has sabotaged anything, and now that he's signed his new contract his LG/LT preference my be a moot point.

My other concern is who makes the line calls if McKinney isn't out there, but I don't know enough about the players and their knowledge to have an opinion on that.

If such a line-up change is made, the fans would need to let them play 2-3 games together to let the bench players adjust to being starters (especially with Freeney coming up) and do a fair evaluation after that. Expect some occasional lapses as the players come back up to game speed.

I think this would improve the pass blocking, and Davis's vermiculate running style would allow him to worm his way through the holes that this line could open. Their best running (average yards/carry) last year came behind Pitts and Wand anyway.
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Old 10-11-2005   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outofhnd
Zone Blocking Works

Just not with our passing plays....

Look at the teams running the zone block and now look at the passing style of offense that they use....

If you said West Coast offense, then you are correct. Now lets break down the west coast passing attack. Short precise routes that tend to pick up small amounts of field. Receivers uaually are in the same general area so the QB can progress through his reads and unload the ball quickly.
You are making a coincidence into a conclusion. Yes the Broncos and Atlanta run zone blocking and have mobile QB's. Their passing game is picked not because they have zone blocking but because of the strengths/weaknesses of their QB's. Vick was originally in a more vertical passing offense but couldn't make the reads, held the ball too long, wasn't accurate down-field. They moved to a more west coast system to make things simpler/shorter for him since he basically isn't a very good QB. It didn't have anything to do with the zone blocking. Similarly, Plummer gets happy feet when asked to sit in a pocket and actually seems to get more accurate when passing on the run. Thus they have all sorts of designed roll-outs (things we have seen the Texans try to put in for Carr) and timing routes. Once again, the nature of their passing attack is based on the QB not the zone blocking. Now if you would like to construct an argument that Carr is more like Plummer than a pocket passer so we should go to a similar offense that might make some sense.
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Old 10-11-2005   #26
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LT - Pitts
LG - Weigert
C - McKinney
RG - Wade
RT - Riley
TE - Wand
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Old 10-11-2005   #27
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A lot of people seem to think that "zone blocking" is used on passing plays. It's a run blocking scheme where a lineman has a designated zone and picks up the nearest defender in their zone. Our offensive line executes this decently. Now I'm not sure if the gaps between the linemen widen or shorten when a run play is called (tipping our hat to the called play), but I really havent seen much of a problem with our run blocking. A lack of strength, speed and intelegence seem to be the key problems with our offensive line. Pretty much everything that makes an offensive line good we lack. Riley is strong but has no footspeed. Pitts is strong and has good speed but lacks diciplin ie. intelegence. McKinney has decent speed but lacks strength. Wade plays inconsistantly. There are times he'll get beat around the edge and times he'll get bullrushed and pushed aside. Weigert is the only one on the line that seems to have decent speed, good strength and diciplin.

On another note.. wasnt Seth Wand a TE comming out of college???
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Old 10-11-2005   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardKnockTexan
On another note.. wasnt Seth Wand a TE comming out of college???

Nope - tackle. His first year here he did duty in the "jumbo" formation where he would line up as a tight end. As expecected, we were pretty effective runnning the ball in this set.

I don't think we used the jumbo fornation last year, but with Wand back on the bench they have run it this year in short yardage situations.

At least when they have Wand on the active roster.
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Old 10-11-2005   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outofhnd
Actually, The Bullock play was not the zone block scheme, by that logic McKinney should have immediately picked him up, And let the other guy go, since bullock was first thru the gap. What should have happened is Carr audibles for DD to stay in and pick up Bullock, while mcKinney picks up the next guy like he did. The Quandry lies in with the fact that we cant have DD be a safety valve if he is picking up the blitz but if he can allow more time, Is there another option than DD in the flat? there is some food for thought...
Blitzing MLB's should be picked up by Mckinney. That is a double nose to LB, and he has to see it and pull away to block him. All he did is turn sideways and give him a better lane to run through. But i think thats more people making bad reads than design.
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Old 10-11-2005   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardKnockTexan
LT - Pitts
LG - Weigert
C - McKinney
RG - Wade
RT - Riley
TE - Wand
Thanks for posting another idea. It does seem like people can see that some movement in the O-line might not be bad. Using Wand as a TE might not be a bad move. I bet he could catch better than any TE we have now plus he can block. I still believe Wiegert would serve us better on the left than right. Once again, at least some looked at this in a positive way. All I will say is when we changed to the zone blocking scheme in year 3 are sacks began to sky rocket once again. Why? Personnel wasn't changed that much......
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