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Old 12-01-2011   #281
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Default Re: TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
I stop it right there.

- Ben Roethlisberger
- Eli Manning

Schaub fits in with these guys, in my estimation. What Roethlisberger and Manning have had that Schaub hasn't up to this point is a defense and a running game. Schaub is like the Marino in these guys (I'm not saying he's as good as Marino) -- Schaub doesn't have the Super Bowls but he's better from a statistical standpoint. He's done things passing yardage wise these guys haven't matched.

- Philip Rivers
I think he's horribly over-rated and without the right pieces around him (like Sproles and LT back in the day and a great defense), he's starting to show his weaknesses.

Flacco, Cutler, Stafford, Ryan... these guys are in this group as well. Good players but they've still got to "do it." Schaub is above them because he's been able to do statistically more with less.

The thing is... all of these guys are good enough to win Super Bowls, in my estimation. They just need the right pieces around them and some luck.
Stop it. Schaub is not in Ben or Eli's tier of QBs, nor is he Marino. Stop it.
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Old 12-01-2011   #282
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Default Re: TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by HJam72 View Post
I think that's a good sign. It means he's concentrating on precision passes and couldn't give #*(^ what his left hand looks like. If he starts letting his tongue hang out too (or something else weird like that), we got a baller on our hands.


He's officially a baller.
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Old 12-01-2011   #283
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Default Re: TJ Yates

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He's officially a baller.
The Jordan of playfaking....... I like it already!
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Old 12-01-2011   #284
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Default Re: TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by Texcore View Post
Stop it. Schaub is not in Ben or Eli's tier of QBs, nor is he Marino. Stop it.
Wrong... He's definitely in the tier with Eli....

Now Ben.... Nope.
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Old 12-01-2011   #285
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Default Re: TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by panamamyers View Post
Top 8 for Schaub?
Name me 20+ teams that would trade their qb for Schaub.
I can't think of more than 6-8 maybe.
This is where it always gets to be a beauty contest and which guy you like versus which guy someone else likes. But... for me...

These are the definites:
1. Redskins
2. Vikings
3. Buccaneers
4. Cardinals
5. Seahawks
6. Bills
7. Dolphins
8. Jets
9. Browns
10. Titans
11. Jaguars
12. Broncos
13. Rams
14. Chiefs

These are arguable, either in the definte or in the even. Not better than Schaub, though.
1. Niners -- Alex Smith has done well this year but I still don't like him much.
2. Eagles -- I don't think Reid would but I prefer Schaub to Vick or VY.

And that's it.

So about 16. Only 4 teams have a QB who's clearly better than Schaub... as far as I'm concerned. Then you have about 11 teams whose QBs are in the same ballpark and it becomes a beauty contest on those about who you like better and how you judge.
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Old 12-01-2011   #286
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Default Re: TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by Texcore View Post
Stop it. Schaub is not in Ben or Eli's tier of QBs, nor is he Marino. Stop it.
Which part of "I'm not saying he's Marino" didn't you understand?

And Ben and Eli are good QBs. They're not great. They only reason some people consider them elite is because their teams won Super Bowls.
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Old 12-01-2011   #287
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Default Re: TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by Texcore View Post
Thats all fine and dandy for those folks playing fantasy football, but what was our record in those two years? 9-7, 6-10. In my time I've seen prolific numbers from QBs with poor defenses that translate to winning seasons because they put the team on their back and carry them. Schaub hasn't/doesn't do that. Sorry to say. I wish like hell he has, but I'm just being a realist.
And, yet, Marino wasn't able to do it.

Only Elite QBs can win despite their defense and they can't even do it all the time. And no one is putting Schaub into that category because, as you said, he hasn't been able to do that.

But that doesn't mean Schaub isn't a very, very good QB.

You put the right team around him and he can win several Super Bowls.


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Just as many that have ended in Schaub throwing an INT or not even producing a drive. And when a game comes down to your special teams having to win the game, that just says the offense didn't do enough during the game to put it away.

I've seen enough of Schaub to know he is a good game manager of the offense. But that will only get you so far. To get where we want to go, we need more of a playmaker at the position. Plain and simple.
That's just BS. A lot of mediocre QBs have "won" SBs. Terry Bradshaw is a great example. He was not that good a player but he still "won" 4 Super Bowls. Trent Dilfer won a SB. The ULTIMATE Game Manager, Bob Griese, won 2 SBs. Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, Doug Williams, Brad Johnson... all those guys won Super Bowls and they are not elite QBs.
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Old 12-01-2011   #288
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Default Re: TJ Yates



YATES controlling our FATE.
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Old 12-01-2011   #289
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Old 12-01-2011   #290
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Default Re: TJ Yates

Been watching some of the youtube stuff of Yates at North Carolina and like what I see.

Seems to do a good job of throwing the ball to spots that his receivers and backs can run onto the ball in stride.

He looks athletic coming out on bootlegs and when he needs to scramble.

Seems to be able move in the pocket while looking up field and avoid the rush.

Velocity seems ok.

Seems to know when to get rid of the ball rather than take the sack.

I liked what I saw, but I am no expert and these were highlight reels.

It was enough to make me want to see what he can play like come game day.

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Old 12-01-2011   #291
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Default Re: TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by CretorFrigg View Post
Anybody else think Yates should change his number? I don't like that he's 13. :-\
I'm just glad it's not another 8
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Old 12-01-2011   #292
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Default Re: TJ Yates

Gonna ride Lucky 13 all the way to the playoffs...

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Old 12-01-2011   #293
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Default Re: TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by Air Canada View Post
Wrong... He's definitely in the tier with Eli....

Now Ben.... Nope.
Only some of our fans would ever say that, God bless us. But the rest of the NFL, league, and other fans would just laugh at that statement.

I dare you to prove it to me, objectively, how he is in Eli's tier of Qbs.
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Old 12-01-2011   #294
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Default Re: TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by Texcore View Post
Only some of our fans would ever say that, God bless us. But the rest of the NFL, league, and other fans would just laugh at that statement.

I dare you to prove it to me, objectively, how he is in Eli's tier of Qbs.
Because Eli doesn't belong in the top tier. When he becomes more consistent, maybe he will. No way does Eli belong in the same group as Brady, Big Ben, and Brees.
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Old 12-01-2011   #295
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Default Re: TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck View Post
Which part of "I'm not saying he's Marino" didn't you understand?

And Ben and Eli are good QBs. They're not great. They only reason some people consider them elite is because their teams won Super Bowls.
Of course I saw that part, but why even mention Schaub in the same breath of Dan Marino. That is trying to say something, without trying to say something.

Ben and Eli have better skill sets than Schaub. Have proven they are more clutch than Schaub. Can get their team into the playoffs. Can win in the playoffs. Oh, and can win a super bowl.

This is a show me what you have done league. And Schaub hasn't shown us anything. He is not clutch. As good as our defense has been playing, it is not the pulverizing defense that leads a team to a SB on its own, like the 85 Bears, 2000 Ravens, or the 2002 Bucs. Other than those years, in this era of football, you need a QB that makes plays on his own, and can lift the team up. Bottom line. If you think otherwise, you are in for serious disappointment. Take the battle red colored glasses off friend, and realize the obvious.

And all of those "mediocare" QBs that you mentioned have one thing in common. They played in a different era of football. A run first era, with less rules for the defense to abide by. Sure, Schaub could of won in those eras with those teams being a game manager. I believe that. But its a different game now.
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Old 12-01-2011   #296
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Default Re: TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
Because Eli doesn't belong in the top tier. When he becomes more consistent, maybe he will. No way does Eli belong in the same group as Brady, Big Ben, and Brees.
And no way does Schaub belong in Eli's tier. No way whatsoever.
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Old 12-01-2011   #297
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Default Re: TJ Yates

This is the way I objectively see it....And in no particular order, just by class IMO

HOFers/Elite
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning(if he comes back healthy obviously)

The Elite
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers
Ben Roethlisberger

Top Tier/non-elite
Eli Manning
Tony Romo
Phillip Rivers
Mike Vick
Matt Ryan

2nd Tier
Jay Cutler
Matt Stafford
Matt Schaub
Joe Flacco
Mark Sanchez.
...and I don't care to rank the rest.

I would take every QB listed above Schaub in a heart beat. This is just a hypothetical, but I would also trade Shaub in a heartbeat for a young talent such as Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, and Sam Bradford. With our talent, thse guys could really shine on our team as they develop into top QBs I would also take Vince Young over Schaub.
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Old 12-01-2011   #298
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Default Re: TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by Texcore View Post
This is the way I objectively see it....And in no particular order, just by class IMO

HOFers/Elite
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning(if he comes back healthy obviously)

The Elite
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers
Ben Roethlisberger

Top Tier/non-elite
Eli Manning
Tony Romo
Phillip Rivers
Mike Vick
Matt Ryan

2nd Tier
Jay Cutler
Matt Stafford
Matt Schaub
Joe Flacco
Mark Sanchez.
...and I don't care to rank the rest.

I would take every QB listed above Schaub in a heart beat. This is just a hypothetical, but I would also trade Shaub in a heartbeat for a young talent such as Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, and Sam Bradford. With our talent, thse guys could really shine on our team as they develop into top QBs I would also take Vince Young over Schaub.
I was vibing with you all the way til the VY thing....

No way am I taking VY over Schaub unless they are running a 40.
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Old 12-01-2011   #299
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Default Re: TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by Thorn View Post
Because Eli doesn't belong in the top tier. When he becomes more consistent, maybe he will. No way does Eli belong in the same group as Brady, Big Ben, and Brees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texcore View Post
And no way does Schaub belong in Eli's tier. No way whatsoever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texcore View Post
This is the way I objectively see it....And in no particular order, just by class IMO

HOFers/Elite
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning(if he comes back healthy obviously)

The Elite
Drew Brees
Aaron Rodgers
Ben Roethlisberger

Top Tier/non-elite
Eli Manning
Tony Romo
Phillip Rivers
Mike Vick
Matt Ryan

2nd Tier
Jay Cutler
Matt Stafford
Matt Schaub
Joe Flacco
Mark Sanchez.
...and I don't care to rank the rest.

I would take every QB listed above Schaub in a heart beat. This is just a hypothetical, but I would also trade Shaub in a heartbeat for a young talent such as Cam Newton, Andy Dalton, and Sam Bradford. With our talent, thse guys could really shine on our team as they develop into top QBs I would also take Vince Young over Schaub.

I like the way you have this structured, how you have them grouped and I mostly agree with you but a) I think you have Vick too high (His game is starting to fray around the edges thanks to injuries) and b). I think that it's important to note that guys hit streaks where they go up or down between your "top-tier/non elite" and "2nd tier" groups.

Cutler, Stafford, and Schaub have all had stretches where they played like they belonged in the top tier/non-elite group and just about every one of the guys you listed as top tier/non-elite has gone through streaks where they were clearly playing like 2nd tier QB's. Rivers right now is in a hell of a funk for instance.

What makes those two guys in your HOF group special is that they almost never have those games and right at this moment Brees and Rodgers are playing like they belong in the HOF group. The only question is whether it lasts weeks, or years.

We rank them all the time using a myriad of different criteria but they don't stay in one group or the other always. Guys are on the way up and on the way down all the time.
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Old 12-01-2011   #300
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Default Re: TJ Yates

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
I was vibing with you all the way til the VY thing....

No way am I taking VY over Schaub unless they are running a 40.
Yeah, the Vince Young thing is kind of weird. There's no way on earth I'd take that head case over pretty much anybody on this list.
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