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Old 11-30-2011   #41
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Default Re: Lions' Suh suspended two games for Thanksgiving stomp

Here is a really clear video of the play.

Start at 0:49 to see the takedown.

He ended up on his knees from his own forward momentum. The o-lineman may or may not have intentionally fell forward on him. But, regardless, what Suh did afterward was lose his cool, and that is what got him ejected / suspended.
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Old 11-30-2011   #42
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Alot of it depends on your coach. Some do actively encourage it.

I believe Jim Swartz in Detroit certainly does. Mike Shanahan is another coach that makes cheapshots part of the gameplan.
I had a coach tell me that when defensive players raise their hands to bat balls punch them in the stomach. He said that'd keep them From doing it again.

Never did it though.

I never felt comfortable doing something to someone that would piss me off and make me want to fight if done to me.

Plus, some of the better coaches I've had convinced the team that revenge is much sweeter when handled legally between the whistles.

Guys want you to stoop their level and when you don't and simply kick their ass on the field, it demoralizes them. You can see it all in their eyes.
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Old 11-30-2011   #43
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Default Re: Lions' Suh suspended two games for Thanksgiving stomp

This is just another example of the wussification of the NFL.

Im not a Lions fan, Suh should've been disciplined but this was excessive. How many players were fined before Goddell became Commish?

Goddell is in the process of ruining the game for fans that like a hard hitting, letting the players handle their business on the field. This started with Gene Washington a WR as the enforcement guy. It has only gotten worse with Anderson, and Whoever has taken over for Pereira as head of the officials is an ***** (s) the I word
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Old 12-01-2011   #44
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Default Re: Lions' Suh suspended two games for Thanksgiving stomp

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I'm not sure what the hell to think about that one Vinny?
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that's a pretty darn good idea. You are the guy running Cain's campaign aren't you?
lol. I <3 Vinny.
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Old 12-01-2011   #45
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Default Re: Lions' Suh suspended two games for Thanksgiving stomp

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This is just another example of the wussification of the NFL.
Please come back and say that after a 300 lb. defensive tackle stomps you in the head with his cleat.

A lot of you folks that keep talking about the 'wussification of football' need to see Earl Campbell and 40 year old players that can barely speak or walk anymore. It's one thing to take contact out of a contact sport, it's quite another thing to let the game be as dangerous as it currently is.
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Old 12-01-2011   #46
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Default Re: Lions' Suh suspended two games for Thanksgiving stomp

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I had a coach tell me that when defensive players raise their hands to bat balls punch them in the stomach. He said that'd keep them From doing it again.

Never did it though.

I never felt comfortable doing something to someone that would piss me off and make me want to fight if done to me.

Plus, some of the better coaches I've had convinced the team that revenge is much sweeter when handled legally between the whistles.

Guys want you to stoop their level and when you don't and simply kick their ass on the field, it demoralizes them. You can see it all in their eyes.
I agree.

From junior high to my senior year in high school, I had one good coach. The rest encouraged dirty play, fighting in the locker room, etc.

My best friend broke a kid's neck on a crackback block when we were sophmores. The coach took my friend aside:

Coach: "If he can't walk again, you have to visit him in the hospital."
Friend: "Really?"
Coach: "No. Just kidding. **** that guy." (walked off laughing).

The kid was fine and didn't lose any movement thankfully, but still
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Old 12-01-2011   #47
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Default Re: Lions' Suh suspended two games for Thanksgiving stomp

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I had a coach tell me that when defensive players raise their hands to bat balls punch them in the stomach. He said that'd keep them From doing it again.

Never did it though.

I never felt comfortable doing something to someone that would piss me off and make me want to fight if done to me.

Plus, some of the better coaches I've had convinced the team that revenge is much sweeter when handled legally between the whistles.

Guys want you to stoop their level and when you don't and simply kick their ass on the field, it demoralizes them. You can see it all in their eyes.
I tell my kid to try to pancake guys who stand up tall and raise their hands. I'd never advocate punching them in the gut and I find it hard to believe a real coach is teaching players to take punches at people. That kind of stuff gets you kicked out of games. I've been around a ton of coaches, been in many practices and watched hundreds of practices and I've never seen anyone advocate blatant dirty play.

If a guy stands tall or raises his hands and jumps while standing upright, get under him and drive him into the turf....if a guy falls, fall on him and knock his wind out so he is breathing hard the next play. You don't punch people nor do you stomp on anyone. I believe in being physical as hell, but there is no place for dirty play unless you are a low character guy. There is a difference in being physically tough and being dirty. I don't think there are many coaches teaching dirty play. Physical? certainly. Dirty? no way. The Parents are watching all lover level football and that's a fast way to the door for a HC coaching HS or Jr High.
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Old 12-01-2011   #48
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Default Re: Lions' Suh suspended two games for Thanksgiving stomp

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I I don't think there are many coaches teaching dirty play. Physical? certainly. Dirty? no way. The Parents are watching all lover level football and that's a fast way to the door for a HC coaching HS or Jr High.
This guy was my first coach I had when I got to college.

He was fired the next year.

I hated that guy. Didn't teach any technique...Just told us to block that guy...try harder...Only the technique I learned from highschool is what carried me through my first year...

He used to make us do punishments just because...I thought he was a cool guy when I met him on my recruiting trip, but geezus was I wrong....Total ass-hole. I pretty much lost all respect for him when I saw him drunk at a club hitting on girls our age...And he was married...

I remember he was messing around in the training room and the head coach came in and said, "If you keep this up I'm going to take YOUR scholarship"...

Me and a couple teammates had a really good laugh about that....

I will say one thing though...I was never in better shape and I never played with as much animosity in my life...I really disliked that guy, but I have to admit that he made me a better player...But that is only because my highschool coach was such a beast and I carried all the good stuff over from him and mixed it with the neanderthalish coaching I received that first year from him.....
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Old 12-01-2011   #49
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Default Re: Lions' Suh suspended two games for Thanksgiving stomp

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This is just another example of the wussification of the NFL.
Funny, the guys on Inside the NFL all agreed the hitting now is harder than ever before.
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Old 12-01-2011   #50
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Default Re: Lions' Suh suspended two games for Thanksgiving stomp

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Funny, the guys on Inside the NFL all agreed the hitting now is harder than ever before.
I am too lazy to look this up and research it. But I read a while back about the size and speed of today's players is so increased from the past. Think about it, bigger and faster = more damage. Pretty much the laws of physics.

Edit: just to be clear, I am agreeing with Icak and attempting to add on to his point.
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Old 12-01-2011   #51
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Default Re: Lions' Suh suspended two games for Thanksgiving stomp

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This is just another example of the wussification of the NFL.
lol! Yeah, let's quit watching this wussy game and go watch something tough like....baseball...

No Huddle on NFLN had a great debate about this story last night. Warren Sapp was on the panel, and they got heated with each other.

None of them would label Suh as a "dirty player", but most agreed that this play was dirty.

Jim Rome has been asking is Suh just nasty, or dirty? That's a mighty fine line between the two.

There is a solid case being built by Suh himself that he's earning the reputation for being dirty. It's the uncontrolled rage after the play is dead where he finds himself in trouble.

And when dude goes to the commish on November 1 to plead his case, but then does this on national tv just three weeks later? C'mon, man!
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Old 12-01-2011   #52
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Default Re: Lions' Suh suspended two games for Thanksgiving stomp

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lol! Yeah, let's quit watching this wussy game and go watch something tough like....baseball...

No Huddle on NFLN had a great debate about this story last night. Warren Sapp was on the panel, and they got heated with each other.

None of them would label Suh as a "dirty player", but most agreed that this play was dirty.

Jim Rome has been asking is Suh just nasty, or dirty? That's a mighty fine line between the two.

There is a solid case being built by Suh himself that he's earning the reputation for being dirty. It's the uncontrolled rage after the play is dead where he finds himself in trouble.

And when dude goes to the commish on November 1 to plead his case, but then does this on national tv just three weeks later? C'mon, man!
to me, when someone says "nasty" in relation to a football player I think it means he will lay the wood on you when given a shot...a guy who doesn't pass up an opportunity to snot-bubble someone. "Dirty" players take it a step further by taking cheap shots. Personally I don't associate the term "nasty player" with a cheap shot player.
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Old 12-01-2011   #53
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Default Re: Lions' Suh suspended two games for Thanksgiving stomp

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I am too lazy to look this up and research it. But I read a while back about the size and speed of today's players is so increased from the past. Think about it, bigger and faster = more damage. Pretty much the laws of physics.
Stark example - Randy White 257 lb DT and All Pro for 9 straight seasons. That is Connor Barwin dropping 7 lbs and playing DT. I doubt there are any DT's at all in the league that size anymore and they sure aren't making All Pro.
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Old 12-01-2011   #54
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Default Re: Lions' Suh suspended two games for Thanksgiving stomp

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Stark example - Randy White 257 lb DT and All Pro for 9 straight seasons. That is Connor Barwin dropping 7 lbs and playing DT. I doubt there are any DT's at all in the league that size anymore and they sure aren't making All Pro.
I think Curly Culp played at 268 on the nose...and he was a devastating NT. Munchack was around 280 and a HOF'er no doubt.
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Old 12-01-2011   #55
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Default Re: Lions' Suh suspended two games for Thanksgiving stomp

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I am too lazy to look this up and research it. But I read a while back about the size and speed of today's players is so increased from the past. Think about it, bigger and faster = more damage. Pretty much the laws of physics.

Edit: just to be clear, I am agreeing with Icak and attempting to add on to his point.
This is a good point, and it goes back to a lot of discussions I've had in here where I've talked about the athletes of today being a lot better than so many of these all time greats from like 30 and 40 years ago because of how much bigger, faster, and more explosive they are not only from certain genetics, but from all of the enhanced training methods that have evolved over the years. There is a much higher population in this country as well which easily has brought on more and more competition of athletes growing up and competing to get to the top where only the best of the best reach the NFL level, and that is the same for almost all sports now days.
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Old 12-01-2011   #56
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Default Re: Lions' Suh suspended two games for Thanksgiving stomp

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This is a good point, and it goes back to a lot of discussions I've had in here where I've talked about the athletes of today being a lot better than so many of these all time greats from like 30 and 40 years ago because of how much bigger, faster, and more explosive they are not only from certain genetics, but from all of the enhanced training methods that have evolved over the years. There is a much higher population in this country as well which easily has brought on more and more competition of athletes growing up and competing to get to the top where only the best of the best reach the NFL level, and that is the same for almost all sports now days.
I see people say that old players from the past wouldn't make it today since athletes are bigger and faster. If somehow you put a lot of these older star players in a time machine and insert them in programs that today's kids are in from jr high school, they would be bigger, stronger versions of themselves also.
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Old 12-01-2011   #57
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Default Re: Lions' Suh suspended two games for Thanksgiving stomp

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I see people say that old players from the past wouldn't make it today since athletes are bigger and faster. If somehow you put a lot of these older star players in a time machine and insert them in programs that today's kids are in from jr high school, they would be bigger, stronger versions of themselves also.
No doubt that some of them would. But when I'm comparing certain guys from the past and certain guys from from today all I can use is what I have. I can't speculate on who would have been great if they had this or had that growing up where they did. I can only go off of what it was. Some guys I watch on film from back in the day that were great clearly didn't have the same athleticism that it would take to be great in today's game whether it be the NFL or the NBA or other sports. They might have been better, but there is always a ceiling for everyone, and a lot of guys just don't have that high of a ceiling in some cases. When you look at the back up players and the 3rd string types of guys from back in the day especially, that's where you can really see the differences. Those guys wouldn't have even sniffed the pros now days.
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Old 12-01-2011   #58
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Default Re: Lions' Suh suspended two games for Thanksgiving stomp

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No doubt that some of them would. But when I'm comparing certain guys from the past and certain guys from from today all I can use is what I have. I can't speculate on who would have been great if they had this or had that growing up where they did. I can only go off of what it was. Some guys I watch on film from back in the day that were great clearly didn't have the same athleticism that it would take to be great in today's game whether it be the NFL or the NBA or other sports. They might have been better, but there is always a ceiling for everyone, and a lot of guys just don't have that high of a ceiling in some cases. When you look at the back up players and the 3rd string types of guys from back in the day especially, that's where you can really see the differences. Those guys wouldn't have even sniffed the pros now days.
flip it and it goes both ways too. Don't let the current day players lift weights or do any modern day training or eat high protein meals and you won't have 330 pound guys playing against the Jack Lambert's either.
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Old 12-01-2011   #59
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Default Re: Lions' Suh suspended two games for Thanksgiving stomp

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flip it and it goes both ways too. Don't let the current day players lift weights or do any modern day training or eat high protein meals and you won't have 330 pound guys playing against the Jack Lambert's either.
I disagree. I think the back ups and the 3rd stringers of today could have done a lot more against the guys in the 60's and the 70's. I think there is a level of athleticism that is greater today, and as I mentioned before we have a much higher population now than what we had back then which creates more competition all around the country. More guys grew up playing football and having to compete against a lot more people than what guys had to back then, so you had to be that much greater of a player at your position because there are a lot more people that you're competing against. There weren't as many kids growing up playing organized football back then like there are now. Today's athletes have a much bigger field of competition to rise to the top amongst.

I don't know if you watch a lot of MMA, but I've been a huge fan of that sport for a long time, and the growth of it has been so crazy just in the last 6 years. You're seeing so many fighters that are so much more advanced in all aspects of the sport. A lot of it has to do with the evolving training methods, the advanced training from masters of every discipline that are training these guys which is similar to what we talked about in football. However, another huge part of that is the fact that so many people now are getting into MMA all over the world and especially in this country to where the competition is literally doubling and multiplying every year with this rapid growth creating a much higher standard to be considered good. Just 8 years ago, some of the guys that would be coming right into big time promotion companies wouldn't stand a chance now days, because the up and comers are that much better because the standard of how good you have to be now days is at a much higher level because there are so many guys competing now days. 8 or 9 years ago some guys could get really good because of superior athleticism and not have to train as hard as some guys in technique, and then you had guys that had such great technique that they could easily out due so many guys with great strength and athleticism. Now days you have to have both and there are no short cuts, because the level of competition has evolved and also increased in numbers tremendously where it will keep raising the bar of how skilled and athletic you have to be in this sport.
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Old 12-01-2011   #60
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Originally Posted by Texecutioner View Post
I disagree. I think the back ups and the 3rd stringers of today could have done a lot more against the guys in the 60's and the 70's.
those guys have been using modern training techniques and eating differently too. My argument isn't that you take a fully trained modern athlete and transport him back...my argument is if you take that modern athlete and give him no modern training, he isn't the same bigger faster guy. Works both ways.
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