Connor Barwin: better than mario? Yes!

[Scooter]

nevermind - alcohol induced posting today.

[DocBar]

I've resisted as long as I can. Barwin+Reed~ Barwin+Williams as far as play goes. Barwin+Reed a helluva lot cheaper for the same(ish) production. Is keeping MW gonna be worth the cap hit and can we afford it to start with?

[PapaL]

Originally Posted by GP

What's the over/under on number of pages this thread ends up having.

I call it at 14 pages. Over or under?

I call 10.

Over/Under

[dalemurphy]

Let's look at that 2009 draft again, huh:

Brian Cushing
Connor Barwin
Glover Quin
Brice McCain
Tim Jamison... all looked pretty darn good today.


I have yet to re-watch but it appeared to be Quin's best game at safety this year upon the initial viewing.

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Let's look at that 2009 draft again, huh:

Brian Cushing
Connor Barwin
Glover Quin
Brice McCain
Tim Jamison... all looked pretty darn good today.


I have yet to re-watch but it appeared to be Quin's best game at safety this year upon the initial viewing.

That draft is looking very good right now.

[HJam72]

Barwin the Barbarian.

[STEEL BLUE TEXANS]

Barwinning

[mussop]

Originally Posted by Scooter

also the meat of our schedule while mario was in and he still had the numbers. i find the reed/barwin comparisons funny because how often does mario go completely unblocked? did mario get to rack up sacks against the david "fetal" carr type failure that is blaine gabbart (twice)? did he get to destroy tennessee or "i hope i dont get sacked 3 times in a row" tampa bay?

i've blasted mario plenty, and assumed that he'd fail spectacularly as a linebacker, but he proved me and everybody wrong against our toughest opponents. health is a concern to a very small degree (in the "what have you done for me lately" category), but if healthy he has 12+ sacks at this point and we're a more overwhelming defense.

Please explain "the meat of the schedule"? And quit blowing up the "completely unblocked" excuse. Reed got a couple of sacks against Cleveland unblocked, Barwin got one last night and you're acting like they shouldn't get credit for any of the sacks they have gotten? And yes Mario got at least one of his sacks this year where he was unblocked.

Again, "our toughest opponents"? And since you can tell the future am I goingto win the lottery anytime soon?

This isn't directed at you scooter but another thing. I'm so tired of hearing how since Mario went out the other players up front aren't as effective. And everyone wants to point to A Smith as proof. What no one Pimping that theory wants to recognize is that Smith has been playing with a hurt shoulder that whole time. Also Cushing has been lighting it up so how come Mario's absence hasn't effected his play?

And for the record I'm not agreeing with Dale that Barwin is a better player than Mario. I just think the hype machine about Mario as a LB needs to be turned down a notch. He was not setting the world on fire. He was not looking like the next coming of Ware or Shawne Merriman. He did look like he was starting figure out the position but he was no where near the presence alot of people here declare he was.

Ill tell you what is funny is that most if the people that pointed to his sack total as proof that he was on his way to canton as a LB are now dissing Reed and Barwins sack total.

[TimeKiller]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Let's look at that 2009 draft again, huh:

Brian Cushing
Connor Barwin
Glover Quin
Brice McCain
Tim Jamison... all looked pretty darn good today.


I have yet to re-watch but it appeared to be Quin's best game at safety this year upon the initial viewing.

This is turning into a pet peeve for me, probably due to Foster's emergence but what round was Tim Jamison drafted in again? UNdrafted free agent. NOT part of the draft. Couldn't possibly be less drafted. You, me, Arian and Timmy Jam were all drafted in the same round. The never round.

Sorry.

Anyway, Quin was indeed lights out today. He really brings the wood and as a deep cover man is a plus. Marcedes Lewis is a tough cover and despite his dropsy had a horrible day going against GQ. Moving him to S was a stroke of genius.

There is a lot to be said for Barwin, he's one of my favorite players and there are great things in his future. This discussion is absolutely weak though. I commend you for sticking your opinion out there to be torn apart, nice huevos but I also laugh at you for being so ridiculous.

[Dishman]

LOL @ "the never round" of which I am a proud member, as well.

[Porky]

Dale murphy - get a grip is about all I can say.

And you do realize that more than sack numbers need to be analyzed when comparing the two players right. This is a worthless discussion unless you are comparing money spent vs. production, but as far as the two players straight up it isn't even close.

[steelbtexan]

Originally Posted by Porky

Dale murphy - get a grip is about all I can say.

And you do realize that more than sack numbers need to be analyzed when comparing the two players right. This is a worthless discussion unless you are comparing money spent vs. production, but as far as the two players straight up it isn't even close.

Agreed

But the $$$$ would be better spent on other FA's.

Could you imagine this defense with another CB like Joseph? Or another WR like AJ? This is the type of $$$$ that your talking about comitting to MW. He's not worth it IMHO. In addition to using those $$$$ to fill the other holes in FA.

[Texecutioner]

I'll slide on in here and take Dale Murphy's back for a change on this one.

I"m not sure if Barwin is simply better than Mario, but we're getting a ton of more pressure from that side than we've ever gotten with Mario there by himself. Barwin is definitely more explosive in my eyes. I"ve never seen Mario be as effective as Barwin was yesterday. Bottom line, this team has been way better at getting to the passer without Mario on the field this season. The Texans have never had a good pass rush since their inception until this season and coincidentally it's when Mario isn't playing. I think we've got plenty of guys that can rush the passer now to where we don't need to resign Mario, and can use that money on other positions to make this football team overall a better team.

To Mario's defense though, he did start off the season looking great and he didn't exactly get his full season to show how well he'd look in this new defense for a full season.

[GuerillaBlack]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

Unless the market is as aware of Mario's limitations as I am, he is going to command way more than Rick Smith and company will be willing to pay him. He'll be gone after the season unless Kubiak and Smith don't have the guts to make that call. I think they do.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by mussop

He did look like he was starting figure out the position but he was no where near the presence alot of people here declare he was.

Ill tell you what is funny is that most if the people that pointed to his sack total as proof that he was on his way to canton as a LB are now dissing Reed and Barwins sack total

I think Barwin and Reed would look even better playing opposite Mario.

I think a rotation of Barwin Mario and Reed would be impossible to stop.

I think if you have Barwin, Mario and Reed and one of them gets banged up you don't miss a whole, whole lot.

If the money doesn't work, trade him and get assets. If the money does work (and I think it will be worked out) sign him and keep it moving.

[Say Watt]

There is no reason to mock Mario just to give Barwin the praise he deserves. This was Barwin's first HUGE game. Let us see a few more of those before we start essentially calling Barwin the best player on our defense.

[ThaShark316]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

meat of the schedule?:

Indy is pathetic and Mario's 2 sacks were against Dallas Clark.
New Orleans- Mario was horrible against the Saints, including allowing Robert Meachem to seal him for a big run.
Miami- Mario was okay. Connor Barwin outplayed him.
Pittsburgh- Mario played well against a QB that gets sacked a lot and a beat up OLine.
Baltimore- Mario was hurt early in the game.

Mario was not particularly good against good players over that stretch. His opportunities were limited. He was bad against solid but unspectacular tackles in New Orleans. He was okay against Miami but played on the opposite side from Jake Long much of the time. That's about it as far as playing tough competition.

So based on your logic, Barwin's sacks this past week came against a weak team.

Have you lost your mind? Told y'all this fan base is retarded.

[BigBull17]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Agreed

But the $$$$ would be better spent on other FA's.

Could you imagine this defense with another CB like Joseph? Or another WR like AJ? This is the type of $$$$ that your talking about comitting to MW. He's not worth it IMHO. In addition to using those $$$$ to fill the other holes in FA.

And comming from you or anyone else, people think and analyse the situation and weigh pros and cons. When Dale mentions it, his complete lack of objectivity make people crindge and bristle. For whatever reason, I think Mario stole his lunch money or something, he HATES him. I said a long time ago, that if our defense shows no let down then we should look into franchise and trade. Just any opinion voiced by Dale falls on many deaf ears.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

Agreed

But the $$$$ would be better spent on other FA's.

Could you imagine this defense with another CB like Joseph? Or another WR like AJ? This is the type of $$$$ that your talking about comitting to MW. He's not worth it IMHO. In addition to using those $$$$ to fill the other holes in FA.

We don't know what kind of money we're talking about. Rick Smith can structure the contract all kinds of ways & minimize his cap hit.

Mario is worth something in cap space... $4 Million, $6 Million, $9 Million....

I seriously doubt he will continue to count $14 Million a year for the duration of his contract. Nobody but a QB would get a deal like that.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

I think we've got plenty of guys that can rush the passer now to where we don't need to resign Mario, and can use that money on other positions to make this football team overall a better team.

To Mario's defense though, he did start off the season looking great and he didn't exactly get his full season to show how well he'd look in this new defense for a full season.

I can agree with some of this. I wouldn't put too much stock into what happened @Jacksonville. Impressive, don't get me wrong I'm not saying any different.

But, I will say what I've said all year long. When we play a team with a decent offense if we can't get pressure without blitzing, we're going to be in trouble.

Doesn't mean that we would get pressure with Mario, just that I think our odds are better with Barwin, Reed, & Mario. That just sounds like an awesome rotation to me. Something Mario has never had his whole career here. Which is why he play's hurt, because we never got help from the other guys. Mario was never the problem.

Again, if Barwin & Reed continue to impress, I'm open to life without Mario. I just don't think we've reached a point (yet) to say Mario is expendable.