Penn State Child Molestation Case

[Honoring Earl 34]

Originally Posted by Vinny

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/9...e-shame-on-you

I got to say Sandusky has already proved he can keep a secret and doesn't have a conscience .

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

Where did you hear about the DA? I haven't heard that.

Edit, Found it:

Now that they will have to investigate all the donors to the Pedo club that Sandusky ran, I bet they come up with some leads on this case.

[GP]

Originally Posted by Super Mario

JoePA is a freaking liar and an awful human being. Same goes for the 2 executives. An assistant tells you he saw a kid getting buttf#$@#ed in your football showers and you dont do everything in your power to make sure this guy never see's the light of day?

I dont buy all the "I was told it was inappropriate touching" garbage. You were told exactly what the assistant saw, and went into self preservation mode. Despicable.

But how would a guy like Paterno go about the process of "doing the right thing?"

It seems so easy, us sitting here saying he should have done this and he should have done that. Follow along for a second....

1. You're the head coach of Penn State. You're the oldest active college coach, it's all you know. It's who you are. Penn State, when people think about the name, they see an image of Paterno's face with the big nose and the 1960s eye glasses, and the broad smile. Your bowl appearances and bowl wins are vast and legendary.

2. Somebody approaches you and says they saw Sandusky violating an underage boy in a shower.

3. ****. I should tell someone about this. But who? So I talk to someone, and I begin to realize this goes deeper than just Sandusky. It's not just some sad man named Sandusky getting his kicks off underage boys. In fact, this thing is WAY DEEP. Big names, big money, people who know people who know PEOPLE. Something out of a Grisham novel. Hell, I begin to wonder if I've screwed up just by talking to a couple people about the allegations.

4. I should quit. To hell with this, and all of the garbage that could evolve out of it. I'm a legend. I've done enough, and if I can't talk to anyone and if it wouldn't do any good even if I tried...then I'm out of here. I can at least walk away knowing that I would not support it in an indirect manner.

5. But wait a second. Why do I have to go away when I ain't done nothing wrong? I'm not guilty. I'm a coach, I'm here to represent the school and I know that I, Joe Paterno, take good care of those parents' kids who send their boys to play for Penn State. Heck, I MUST stay here so that I can make sure that I keep my eyes on things and maintain some normalcy.

Flash forward to current day....

6. What's this letter? It says to call a number in 15 minutes. So I call it, and a voice on the other tells me that I am fired. Just like that. Couldn't even do it to my face, like real men would. Oh I see, so this is how it ends? Some pervert and his whacko buddies with money and power, guys I don't run with and never would run with, are in such a deep mess that now I am also guilty for having been here when they were. I should have retired a long time ago. Dammit. I should have left it all behind.

7. But I am a good man. I did nothing wrong. I had to be there to be GOOD example for young men. I'm a football coach. It's what I do. I should have walked away, but I couldn't.

-------------------------

Just remember, he's like 80-something-years-old. I think for some people, their world really IS as simple as this: I'm a coach. It's what I do. I wake up in the morning, grab coffee, hit the office and look at scouting reports. Drills. Practice. Hit the office again, meet with a recruit, go home and eat dinner. Rinse and repeat. When I think of that sort of person, I think of Joe Paterno--A guy who would be carried out of PSU with a sheet over his dead body one day, not because of a school shooting...but because he died at age 98 while watching game film in his office.

Couple this with what he might have found out is a system SO HUGE and so vast in its reach, and you walk away understanding that sometimes the decision a guy like Paterno "should have made" is not as easy as it sounds.

I'm just sort of saddened that Penn State has so quickly gone the route of cleansing the place so deeply.

Is there even more stuff on Paterno than what we know right now? Not that he was participating or anything, just saying that maybe he's a LOT more complicit than we'd like to believe (even if his complicity was minor in the grand scheme of things).

I suppose PSU felt it had to remove Paterno because of the past affiliation with Sandusky--When you think of Sandusky, you think of Paterno's better years at PSU...therefore he's guilty, in a sense, by mere association with Sandusky.

I believe in simplicity. I think we all do. But carrying out a simplistic idea, such as "I should have quit," or "I should tell the police, or a school administrator" is simple on its face. Complex in the details of actually going through with it.

If Paterno is innocent, meaning he had no direct involvement with this yucky stuff, and his only flaw was (a) not retiring, or (b) not putting the weight of the universe on his shoulders and spending his life and finances on trying to hire people to expose the ring of corruption surrounding Sandusky, then I'm glad he got fired and he can now live the last few years of his life with his wife and let Penn State clean up ITS OWN DAMN MESS.

I just can't understand why people are extending the vitriole toward Paterno, as if it was his sole responsibility to make things right. Yes, by LAW you are supposed to tell someone. And IIRC, the sports media reports said that Paterno DID go and tell someone in the administration. If so, then he followed procedure. It was then the responsibility of the person he told--the administrator--to take it forward and alert the authorities. If things are true about how Paterno DID tell someone at PSU about what he had heard about Sandusky and the shower incident, then what else could Paterno do to be cleared of charges in the minds of the public?

One last thing: I suppose we can also say that Paterno didn't know when to quit. Someone was going to have to make that decision for him. He said he wanted to retire after this season, but we all sort of giggle at that assertion by JoePa. Thus, the school decided to be rid of him and remove a tie to the past; a tie to Sandusky. It was the smart play by PSU, even if it looks like they're sacrificing Paterno for no good reason.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by GP

But how would a guy like Paterno go about the process of "doing the right thing?"

I just can't understand why people are extending the vitriole toward Paterno

dude, you obviously don't have all your facts. Read the grand jury's findings before you rant


http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...&postcount=182

[Dutchrudder]

^ I can't begin to counter all your points GP because I wouldn't be able to finish the post, but calling the police about this would have been easy enough for JoPA to do. Telling the AD and expecting him to carry it out isn't enough (he may be involved), this was child molestation. There is absolutely no excuse for it, nor the coverup, nor ignoring it. He is an accessory to the crime after that point.

[GP]

Originally Posted by Vinny

Now that they will have to investigate all the donors to the Pedo club that Sandusky ran, I bet they come up with some leads on this case.

So this thing might be huge.

Donors, maybe even certain school officials, and maybe even various local or state officials. I mean, it could be a VAST assortment of people who have power, money, or both power AND money.

I'm sort of piecing together the history of all this stuff. Am I correct when I say that this has been an ongoing situation that for some reason authorities have not been able to nail down with concrete proof; enough to press forward with serious charges until now?

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by GP

So this thing might be huge.

Donors, maybe even certain school officials, and maybe even various local or state officials. I mean, it could be a VAST assortment of people who have power, money, or both power AND money.

I'm sort of piecing together the history of all this stuff. Am I correct when I say that this has been an ongoing situation that for some reason authorities have not been able to nail down with concrete proof; enough to press forward with serious charges until now?

just read the link I gave you. The Grand Jury's findings are summarized as far as Paterno's role and the link at the bottom is the fact find after a THREE year investigation. These are not allegations, these are facts.

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011...resentment.pdf

[Runner]

Originally Posted by Vinny

Now that they will have to investigate all the donors to the Pedo club that Sandusky ran, I bet they come up with some leads on this case.

That DA also prosecuted violent criminals. I'm not confidant of a tie in of the disappearance to Penn State yet, but I've been surprised before.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by Runner

That DA also prosecuted violent criminals. I'm not confidant of a tie in of the disappearance to Penn State yet, but I've been surprised before.

well, DA's across the country prosecute violent criminals all the time and they don't disappear. I'd say that the scope of this tragedy is more complex and has more money behind it than anything that DA ever investigated.

[Honoring Earl 34]

Originally Posted by GP

So this thing might be huge.

Donors, maybe even certain school officials, and maybe even various local or state officials. I mean, it could be a VAST assortment of people who have power, money, or both power AND money.

I'm sort of piecing together the history of all this stuff. Am I correct when I say that this has been an ongoing situation that for some reason authorities have not been able to nail down with concrete proof; enough to press forward with serious charges until now?

Sandusky started his foundation in 1977 . He's adopted 6 kids and had numerous foster children . They'll have to dig along way before they hit bottom .

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by Vinny

dude, you obviously don't have all your facts. Read the grand jury's findings before you rant


http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...&postcount=182

I read the report and had many of the same reservations that GP did on initially hearing about this. The report changed my mind and position.

Joe Paterno is a legend. He's the guy in charge of the poster-program for an NCAA football team. He's not a cheater, he's not a liar, he's not any of that. He's a role model the likes of which most of us never get close to. He's a perfect figurehead and record setting coach. As far the NCAA football world goes he's the closest thing to the perfect example of a coach/program on earth. It's impossible to separate him from the the school. They are one and the same and they are perfect and above reproach.

That's the general consensus of him with many people before this comes out. I bought into the idea that he was this walks-on-water type too and couldn't bring myself to believe that he knew this was going on and didn't do everything in his power to clean this up. He didn't though. He failed to live up to the myth and living up to the myth in this case should have been easy to do.

Has McQueary been fired too? He should be. I see all these people along the chain of events and every step of the way I don't understand why it never ended with "...and then I went to the police" They all seem like their overwhelming interest was protecting Penn State and I can't for the life of me understand why they didn't just know that the way you protect Penn State is you stop what's happening, expose the bastard, and see that he's put in jail. Sure, your school has a scandal to deal with in the short term but then everyone who sees that you did this knows that not only does Penn State talk the talk but they walk the walk as well. You protect the school by doing the right thing.

He's probably got the single biggest cult of personality in sports but it's all gotta go. The taint on this entire program is enormous and seems to be getting bigger every day. I understand what the kids think because it's a simplified version of what many people (myself included) thought but you can't hold that ground because eventually you have to ask "why didn't someone go to the police?" and Paterno can't be who he's supposed to be if he also failed that test.

Turn over ever single stone and salt the earth when you're done.

[GP]

Originally Posted by Dutchrudder

^ I can't begin to counter all your points GP because I wouldn't be able to finish the post, but calling the police about this would have been easy enough for JoPA to do. Telling the AD and expecting him to carry it out isn't enough (he may be involved), this was child molestation. There is absolutely no excuse for it, nor the coverup, nor ignoring it. He is an accessory to the crime after that point.

I worked in a school for four years, and we were trained that if we suspected child abuse among any of our students...we were to tell SCHOOL OFFICIALS first and foremost.

At that point, you are technically not guilty of covering it up. You told your school official, and it's now his/her job to go forward and alert authorities.

If everybody ran to the authorities without consulting their superior first...you can't begin to imagine the havoc it could create in all job environments that involve minors (kids). The allegation is a serious thing in of itself, and you have to channel it through administration so that the proper people (administrators) are doing what their job entails; Administrative duties such as following up on what a teacher, or coach, has reported as POSSIBLE child abuse.

If Paterno went to a school official, it's not as if he can also go and lead the charge to bring down Sandusky himself. Sounds good, when we're sitting here playing the What If? game, but like I said: This thing is not as simple as we'd like it to be.

Unless Paterno has more hidden away than what we know of through the current media reports, I am having a hard time passing down blame to him for the actions of people above him (administrators) or formerly connected to him (Sandusky). Like I said, he had to go--it was the smart play--but I won't sit here and carve the guy up as if he didn't do enough.

[Dutchrudder]

Originally Posted by GP

I worked in a school for four years, and we were trained that if we suspected child abuse among any of our students...we were to tell SCHOOL OFFICIALS first and foremost.

At that point, you are technically not guilty of covering it up. You told your school official, and it's now his/her job to go forward and alert authorities.

If everybody ran to the authorities without consulting their superior first...you can't begin to imagine the havoc it could create in all job environments that involve minors (kids). The allegation is a serious thing in of itself, and you have to channel it through administration so that the proper people (administrators) are doing what their job entails; Administrative duties such as following up on what a teacher, or coach, has reported as POSSIBLE child abuse.

If Paterno went to a school official, it's not as if he can also go and lead the charge to bring down Sandusky himself. Sounds good, when we're sitting here playing the What If? game, but like I said: This thing is not as simple as we'd like it to be.

Unless Paterno has more hidden away than what we know of through the current media reports, I am having a hard time passing down blame to him for the actions of people above him (administrators) or formerly connected to him (Sandusky). Like I said, he had to go--it was the smart play--but I won't sit here and carve the guy up as if he didn't do enough.

Joe Pa knew about this years ago, and still allowed Sandusky to bring young boys to the Penn State campus, lockerrooms and football games. He didn't do a damn thing about it. There is no excuse, if the AD didn't do anything about it, then at that point you take it into your own damn hands, unless of course you don't have a problem with child molestation or have a 'deal' with him. There is no absolving him in this situation.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by GP

I worked in a school for four years, and we were trained that if we suspected child abuse among any of our students...we were to tell SCHOOL OFFICIALS first and foremost.

At that point, you are technically not guilty of covering it up. You told your school official, and it's now his/her job to go forward and alert authorities.

If everybody ran to the authorities without consulting their superior first...you can't begin to imagine the havoc it could create in all job environments that involve minors (kids). The allegation is a serious thing in of itself, and you have to channel it through administration so that the proper people (administrators) are doing what their job entails; Administrative duties such as following up on what a teacher, or coach, has reported as POSSIBLE child abuse.

If Paterno went to a school official, it's not as if he can also go and lead the charge to bring down Sandusky himself. Sounds good, when we're sitting here playing the What If? game, but like I said: This thing is not as simple as we'd like it to be.

Unless Paterno has more hidden away than what we know of through the current media reports, I am having a hard time passing down blame to him for the actions of people above him (administrators) or formerly connected to him (Sandusky). Like I said, he had to go--it was the smart play--but I won't sit here and carve the guy up as if he didn't do enough.

sounds like you have been brainwashed by the corporate comrades. If someone sees anyone raping your kid in the anus you better hope they have the integrity to call the police instead of following some bull**** corporate protocol. You haven't read the links I gave you. I know because I just gave it to you and you have been too busy writing contrary rants like you usually do.

[GP]

Originally Posted by Vinny

just read the link I gave you. The Grand Jury's findings are summarized as far as Paterno's role and the link at the bottom is the fact find after a THREE year investigation. These are not allegations, these are facts.

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011...resentment.pdf

Yeah, I suppose I can't adequately divide up my time (at the moment) to read all of what's out there. Plus, I didn't see any of this stuff when it broke on TV...woke up this morning and read the thread and am playing catch-up.

That's why I prefaced my post with lots of phrases that show I am not claiming to have read the multitude of reports. I'm sure it could be an all-day ordeal to try and read it all right now. I'm home-schooling my kids right now, and just peeking in on the board every now and then.

Will read the linked items you posted. Just having a hard time thinking this mess would have been a lot less messy had Joe Paterno gone Pelican Brief or the Lincoln Lawyer on what is turning out to be a gigantic ring of pedophilia whackos.

If he went to PSU, the old guy might have just thought he did enough and was done with it (in his own mind). BUT...am going to grab some coffee and read up on it when I can. Will be a lot later today, though.

Sad day to be a PSU alumn, current student, parent of a PSU student, etc. It's mind boggling to consider the residue that will linger off this ordeal.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by GP

Yeah, I suppose I can't adequately divide up my time (at the moment) to read all of what's out there. Plus, I didn't see any of this stuff when it broke on TV...woke up this morning and read the thread and am playing catch-up.

That's why I prefaced my post with lots of phrases that show I am not claiming to have read the multitude of reports. I'm sure it could be an all-day ordeal to try and read it all right now. I'm home-schooling my kids right now, and just peeking in on the board every now and then.

Will read the linked items you posted. Just having a hard time thinking this mess would have been a lot less messy had Joe Paterno gone Pelican Brief or the Lincoln Lawyer on what is turning out to be a gigantic ring of pedophilia whackos.

If he went to PSU, the old guy might have just thought he did enough and was done with it (in his own mind). BUT...am going to grab some coffee and read up on it when I can. Will be a lot later today, though.

Sad day to be a PSU alumn, current student, parent of a PSU student, etc. It's mind boggling to consider the residue that will linger off this ordeal.

I made it easy for you to catch up...hence the link. Grow up and stop commenting until you educate yourself at least a smidgen before you rant (we've already discussed much of what you have written about in this thread). It takes less time to read the cliffs notes shortcuts I gave you than to rant like a fool without the basic facts. Otherwise you are just cluttering up this thread.

[HTown2ATX]

The DA who was originally looking into this that dissappeared, was a topic on J&R last night on 610.

Now, you'll have to look up whatever links they had found online as I don't have them, but apparently police found his hard drive from his laptop that had all the evidence in a river but could not recover anything from it and later when they searched his home pc were google searches for "how to wreck a hard drive" and more.

There are apparently sightings of this guy now and again too in different states.

So, if you want to all Unsolved Mysteries on it, sounds like he was paid to disappear. Also, now that we hear there may have been a whole ring involved.....this actually sounds plausable.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by GP

Yeah, I suppose I can't adequately divide up my time (at the moment) to read all of what's out there.

Not intending to pile on, but in all seriousness, you don't need to read "all of what's out there". Just read one single thing - the grand jury presentment that Vinny linked. All the speculation in the world goes away when you read that.

[GP]

Originally Posted by Vinny

A graduate assistant testifies to a Grand Jury that he heard "rythmic slapping noises" in the shower and saw Sandusky with a 10 year old kid up against the wall in a manner that cops frisk perps and he was being raped. He immediately called his Father and THEY BOTH went to Paterno's house for a meeting. If you are to believe Paterno I'm not sure you are using logic. Let's say he just stopped their story short and told them "I don't want to hear the details, but I'll pass on your allegation to my boss". Logic states that Paterno is a man of deep integrity and is a cultural institution in a powerful University. Why would Paterno do this? He wouldn't. Paterno would ask a few questions if they beat around the bush. If they told him that there was a 10 year old kid in the shower with his Coach, you don't think that he'd want to know everything that happened? Paterno didn't get to be a great head coach by skipping over the main details of any problem to be solved.

It's a massive, gigantic leap of logic to think Paterno didn't know based on the testimony to a grand jury by all the parties. Paterno's ability to hide behind a loophole in a poorly written law that helps large corporations and institutions is another sad, sad issue in itself. I mean why is the law crafted so that anyone in any institution can just say, "I told my boss" and that exonerates him from his duty to protect ten year old children? What kind of crap law is this? All it does is help people pass the buck. I don't remember what the law is called but it needs to be renamed the "pass the buck" law. Its friggin' disturbing that so many stupid people write our laws and "protect" our children with yet more servings of corporate helper.

Last point, I think it is a stretch to believe that a man of deep integrity, a leader of Men, a man who has built a life on hard work and fairness would not wonder why nobody called the police after he reported this to his "boss". If you stretch your logic enough you can believe that Joe Paterno wasn't told the entire truth in that meeting at his house so many years ago.

If you haven't read this, you don't know anything. Not directing that at you herv...just to those who haven't read the Grand Jury's findings. Keep in mind, that was 11 months ago and Sandusky was on JoePa's campus as short a period as two weeks ago.

I read the above post. I don't have time to read 23 pages of the PDF you linked to.

I know you're not happy with the Pass The Buck Situation, but it is what it is. In places where children are interacting with adults, such as schools, you are to tell your authority (an administrator) of possible indecencies that you suspect are going on with children and adults at your place of work.

Telling me I am brainwashed for trusting the person I report to, to trust that they would do the proper thing and report it to the authorities, is a slap to my face. By your reasoningm we can trust NOBODY. We must take the law into our own hands and get the police involved.

All I want to know, out of that 23 pages of PDF is this: DID JOE PATERNO PERSONALLY CATCH OR SEE SANDUSKY RAPING A KID IN A SHOWER? From what I know, and I'm going on TV reports, someone told Paterno and Paterno then told an official about it. He was not passing the buck, he was doing a normal thing by getting the proper school officials involved and trying to get some backup so that perhaps the school could find the young man who witnessed the indecency and ask HIM about it, personally.

I don't appreciate your hostility to me over this. Hell, one of the reasons I am home schooling my kids is because I believe I can raise them better than a stranger can. So give me an ounce of credit for protectig my kids from the creeps who are out there preying on kids. Don't you sit there and type **** and act like I would ever condone anal rape of MY kids and that I am brainwashed if I think reporting it to a school official, and not reporting it to cops, is not enough. That was uncalled for. Period.

People have been known to make **** up all the time, just to get back at somebody they have a beef with. In this scenario, Paterno (again, from what I know off the TV reports) said he heard the rumor and he passed it to an official.

As far as allowing Sandusky to continue campus visits, I'm at a loss on that one and it doesn't look good at all. But who anointed Paterno with the decision making power to say he can or cannot come to campus anymore? Maybe Sandusky was being protected by higher powers at PSU???? You can only do so much, which is why he should have quit a long time ago...something I talked about earlier that was a potential way out for JP.

[Hardcore Texan]

Originally Posted by GP

I read the above post. I don't have time to read 23 pages of the PDF you linked to.

I know you're not happy with the Pass The Buck Situation, but it is what it is. In places where children are interacting with adults, such as schools, you are to tell your authority (an administrator) of possible indecencies that you suspect are going on with children and adults at your place of work.

Telling me I am brainwashed for trusting the person I report to, to trust that they would do the proper thing and report it to the authorities, is a slap to my face. By your reasoningm we can trust NOBODY. We must take the law into our own hands and get the police involved.
All I want to know, out of that 23 pages of PDF is this: DID JOE PATERNO PERSONALLY CATCH OR SEE SANDUSKY RAPING A KID IN A SHOWER? From what I know, and I'm going on TV reports, someone told Paterno and Paterno then told an official about it. He was not passing the buck, he was doing a normal thing by getting the proper school officials involved and trying to get some backup so that perhaps the school could find the young man who witnessed the indecency and ask HIM about it, personally.

I don't appreciate your hostility to me over this. Hell, one of the reasons I am home schooling my kids is because I believe I can raise them better than a stranger can. So give me an ounce of credit for protectig my kids from the creeps who are out there preying on kids. Don't you sit there and type **** and act like I would ever condone anal rape of MY kids and that I am brainwashed if I think reporting it to a school official, and not reporting it to cops, is not enough. That was uncalled for. Period.

People have been known to make **** up all the time, just to get back at somebody they have a beef with. In this scenario, Paterno (again, from what I know off the TV reports) said he heard the rumor and he passed it to an official.As far as allowing Sandusky to continue campus visits, I'm at a loss on that one and it doesn't look good at all. But who anointed Paterno with the decision making power to say he can or cannot come to campus anymore? Maybe Sandusky was being protected by higher powers at PSU???? You can only do so much, which is why he should have quit a long time ago...something I talked about earlier that was a potential way out for JP.

The time you took making that long post you could have read it. He linked a post, a pretty short one, not a 23 page pdf.

Sorry man, Paterno turned a blind eye for over a decade, he should have reported it to the cops, end of story. He should see a little jail time for not doing so, not that it is going to happen.

As for the bolded, calling the cops is not taking the law in your own hands dude. And rumor? Eye-witness account is not rumor, multiple allegations from multiple victims and independent witnesses is not rumor, testifying under oath to the Grand Jury is NOT rumor.