Penn State Child Molestation Case

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by Arsenal

I hope everyone whining for his firing is happy. The football program will suffer for many years to come.
I read this in an article and at least the Board has been swift with the hammer.

dude, your low character rants aren't wanted here. Who gives a crap about brand protection and protecting the football program if they are hiding crimes against humanity?

[Texecutioner]

The thing that gets me about this case is that people are wanting to burn Joe Pa at the stake and the more I read into it, it does sound like he should have done more to get this coach out of there and anyone involved I'd say. Just skimming some of the pages in here, I"m finding out more and more and it's harder and harder to see the POV of some of the posters who want to defend Joe Pa. He wasn't the perpetrator though, and I can't believe that he is being WAY more talked about and burned here than the actual guy who did it.

What gets me the most is all of the inconsistencies on this subject though. Shoot, for the last few years I've been having to hear posters on this board, celebs, and other random folks all over the place praising the biggest child molester of all time in Michael Jackson who had a pedophile ranch, paid off his accusers, openly admitted to doing all types of things that were obvious as day, and yet so many people have turned a blind eye to all of that and just stated that he was "weird" or that his daddy messed him up and all types of pathetic spin efforts. Sorry, but this may be from left field, but I think half the people in this thread that are wanting Joe Pa burned at the stake are big time hypocrites, because I remember hearing a lot of people celebrating MJ when he passed and wanting to "look the other way" every time it was mentioned, and MJ was far bigger than this story if people really wanted to read about all of that stuff that went on. MIKE TYSON is another perfect example as well. Dude raped a woman and sexually assaulted Peter Welcsh's daughter when she was a minor and also beat the living crap out of Robyn Givens, yet Mike Tyson is hardly ever even mentioned amongst rapists and guys of this kind and his career and his legacy is constantly being headlined and covered as if these things never happened. It is sounding more and more like Joe Pa's criticisms here are warrented though, the more that I read about what he "had to have known" at certain points. Joe Pa could have had this guy fired no question. He had more power and seniority than anyone at that program.

Sorry, I know that this post is going to tick a few people off. It wasn't my intention, so I'll apologize for how it may have come off, but if rape and pedophilia is so wrong which it damn sure is, then folks need to be a lot more consistent when putting the clues together and turning a blind eye because of who they like or dislike as entertainers, coaches, and athletes.

[Runner]

Originally Posted by Vinny

dude, your low character rants aren't wanted here. Who gives a crap about brand protection and protecting the football program if they are hiding crimes against humanity?

Yep. Everyone is appalled by enablers and somebody here is just as bad.

"Fire a guy because he covered up child rape and thus allowed it to happen to other innocent children? What about the football?"

Sounds just like the thoughts the Penn State staff had. "We can't call the cops! What about the football?"

Low class is being generous.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

The thing that gets me about this case is that people are wanting to burn Joe Pa at the stake and the more I read into it, it does sound like he should have done more to get this coach out of there and anyone involved I'd say. Just skimming some of the pages in here, I"m finding out more and more and it's harder and harder to see the POV of some of the posters who want to defend Joe Pa. He wasn't the perpetrator though, and I can't believe that he is being WAY more talked about and burned here than the actual guy who did it.

What gets me the most is all of the inconsistencies on this subject though. Shoot, for the last few years I've been having to hear posters on this board, celebs, and other random folks all over the place praising the biggest child molester of all time in Michael Jackson who had a pedophile ranch, paid off his accusers, openly admitted to doing all types of things that were obvious as day, and yet so many people have turned a blind eye to all of that and just stated that he was "weird" or that his daddy messed him up and all types of pathetic spin efforts. Sorry, but this may be from left field, but I think half the people in this thread that are wanting Joe Pa burned at the stake are big time hypocrites, because I remember hearing a lot of people celebrating MJ when he passed and wanting to "look the other way" every time it was mentioned, and MJ was far bigger than this story if people really wanted to read about all of that stuff that went on. MIKE TYSON is another perfect example as well. Dude raped a woman and sexually assaulted Peter Welcsh's daughter when she was a minor and also beat the living crap out of Robyn Givens, yet Mike Tyson is hardly ever even mentioned amongst rapists and guys of this kind and his career and his legacy is constantly being headlined and covered as if these things never happened.

Sorry, I know that this post is going to tick a few people off. It wasn't my intention, so I'll apologize for how it may have come off, but if rape and pedophilia is so wrong which it damn sure is, then folks need to be a lot more consistent when putting the clues together and turning a blind eye because of who they like or dislike as entertainers, coaches, and athletes.

can you give an example of one of us condoning pedophilia or rape? Name some names or this post is just irrational ranting.

[thunderkyss]

I'm only going to make this one post in this thread. People talk all the time about doing the right thing. Lucky for us, we are rarely put in a situation where doing the right thing really matters.

I hope, & pray if any of us are in this type of situation we have the fortitude to act on our convictions & not merely pass the buck as is the more common response.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by Runner

Yep. Everyone is appalled by enablers and somebody here is just as bad.

"Fire a guy because he covered up child rape and thus allowed it to happen to other innocent children? What about the football?"

Sounds just like the thoughts the Penn State staff had. We can't call the cops! What about the football?

Low class is being generous.

I agree with what you're saying here. Joe Pa had the power to rid this guy of the program without losing his job like some of the others might have. He should have pushed until this guy was axed once he heard things that had happened and especially once it was the 2nd time.

What I can't understand is the flip flop though on folks who don't care or who haven't chastised the Jackson family and all of the other enablers that surrounded him for like 20 years. One celeb does a whole lot more and is still celebrated and all of a sudden this 84 year old coach who was just a co worker that seemed to have known is being slayed here. Shame on Joe either way though.

[Hardcore Texan]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

The thing that gets me about this case is that people are wanting to burn Joe Pa at the stake and the more I read into it, it does sound like he should have done more to get this coach out of there and anyone involved I'd say. Just skimming some of the pages in here, I"m finding out more and more and it's harder and harder to see the POV of some of the posters who want to defend Joe Pa. He wasn't the perpetrator though, and I can't believe that he is being WAY more talked about and burned here than the actual guy who did it.

What gets me the most is all of the inconsistencies on this subject though. Shoot, for the last few years I've been having to hear posters on this board, celebs, and other random folks all over the place praising the biggest child molester of all time in Michael Jackson who had a pedophile ranch, paid off his accusers, openly admitted to doing all types of things that were obvious as day, and yet so many people have turned a blind eye to all of that and just stated that he was "weird" or that his daddy messed him up and all types of pathetic spin efforts. Sorry, but this may be from left field, but I think half the people in this thread that are wanting Joe Pa burned at the stake are big time hypocrites, because I remember hearing a lot of people celebrating MJ when he passed and wanting to "look the other way" every time it was mentioned, and MJ was far bigger than this story if people really wanted to read about all of that stuff that went on. MIKE TYSON is another perfect example as well. Dude raped a woman and sexually assaulted Peter Welcsh's daughter when she was a minor and also beat the living crap out of Robyn Givens, yet Mike Tyson is hardly ever even mentioned amongst rapists and guys of this kind and his career and his legacy is constantly being headlined and covered as if these things never happened.

Sorry, I know that this post is going to tick a few people off. It wasn't my intention, so I'll apologize for how it may have come off, but if rape and pedophilia is so wrong which it damn sure is, then folks need to be a lot more consistent when putting the clues together and turning a blind eye because of who they like or dislike as entertainers, coaches, and athletes.

Problem is you are looking for more consistenty from different groups/posters.

I think you are lumping different groups together. Can you say the same people that "turned a blind eye" to MJ are now the same that are wanting to "burn joepa at the stake" as you put it. How on earth would you know it's the same folks and why would you expect consistency?


IMO, and I have read this entire thread, most people are not "burning joepa at the stake". I think most think he should be fired, and he should be! Maybe even serve some jailtime for not reporting an alleged crime involving sex abuse of a child, I believe someone stated that is a law in that state. That dip**** didn't call the cops, failure to report an alleged crime by so many folks. It's sickening all the way around.

Maybe you're not hearing so much about Sandusky because it's a slam dunk he should have the book thrown at him. It's not even debatable.

MJ, you won't hear me say anything good about him either. Nor Tyson, but at least he did serve SOME time in prison.

All child molesters should be extinguished. Period. There's consistency for ya.

[Hardcore Texan]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

I agree with what you're saying here. Joe Pa had the power to rid this guy of the program without losing his job like some of the others might have. He should have pushed until this guy was axed once he heard things that had happened and especially once it was the 2nd time.

What I can't understand is the flip flop though on folks who don't care or who haven't chastised the Jackson family and all of the other enablers that surrounded him for like 20 years. One celeb does a whole lot more and is still celebrated and all of a sudden this 84 year old coach who was just a co worker that seemed to have known is being slayed here. Shame on Joe either way though.

Sandusky was retired. No job to lose man. Retired in 1998 after other previous allegations that happened before this event in 2002. At which point was finally told he could no longer bring children from his charity to campus. I mean only an eye witness gave JoePa his full account of catching this guy raping a kid, a guy with previous charges against him. Up until 2 weeks ago was still all around the university. This is bad all the way around, bigtime cover up by all.

[Htownsportsfan]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

The thing that gets me about this case is that people are wanting to burn Joe Pa at the stake and the more I read into it, it does sound like he should have done more to get this coach out of there and anyone involved I'd say. Just skimming some of the pages in here, I"m finding out more and more and it's harder and harder to see the POV of some of the posters who want to defend Joe Pa. He wasn't the perpetrator though, and I can't believe that he is being WAY more talked about and burned here than the actual guy who did it.

What gets me the most is all of the inconsistencies on this subject though. Shoot, for the last few years I've been having to hear posters on this board, celebs, and other random folks all over the place praising the biggest child molester of all time in Michael Jackson who had a pedophile ranch, paid off his accusers, openly admitted to doing all types of things that were obvious as day, and yet so many people have turned a blind eye to all of that and just stated that he was "weird" or that his daddy messed him up and all types of pathetic spin efforts. Sorry, but this may be from left field, but I think half the people in this thread that are wanting Joe Pa burned at the stake are big time hypocrites, because I remember hearing a lot of people celebrating MJ when he passed and wanting to "look the other way" every time it was mentioned, and MJ was far bigger than this story if people really wanted to read about all of that stuff that went on. MIKE TYSON is another perfect example as well. Dude raped a woman and sexually assaulted Peter Welcsh's daughter when she was a minor and also beat the living crap out of Robyn Givens, yet Mike Tyson is hardly ever even mentioned amongst rapists and guys of this kind and his career and his legacy is constantly being headlined and covered as if these things never happened. It is sounding more and more like Joe Pa's criticisms here are warrented though, the more that I read about what he "had to have known" at certain points. Joe Pa could have had this guy fired no question. He had more power and seniority than anyone at that program.

Sorry, I know that this post is going to tick a few people off. It wasn't my intention, so I'll apologize for how it may have come off, but if rape and pedophilia is so wrong which it damn sure is, then folks need to be a lot more consistent when putting the clues together and turning a blind eye because of who they like or dislike as entertainers, coaches, and athletes.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but after reading the 23 page indictment Paternos story just doesnt make sense. The graduate assistant who saw the assault take place and went to see Paterno. I dont give a damn if he only used the word fondle when he tried to describe what he saw. Do you really think at that point Paterno would not be so shocked he would ask for every detail to try and prove it was a misunderstanding? If someone came to you and told you they saw someone you knew well for over 30 years touching a child let alone sodomising a ten year old boy you wouldn't demand more detail? If Paterno dint demand more information then he is beyond inept! The only thing Paterno did along with the Ad was tell Sandusky he wasnt allowed to bring young kids into the facility anymore. Joe Pa was a great football coach and man for many years but his inaction helped a child predator continue his assault on kids. That is inexcusable for anyone in any position!

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by Vinny

can you give an example of one of us condoning pedophilia or rape? Name some names or this post is just irrational ranting.

Not really wanting to get into a fight and call out posters randomly Vinny, but you can check some of those Michael Jackson threads when he died. I think you were gone, but they got pretty heated. My point was all of the exact same "turning a blind eye" methods and excuses that were given at a guy like Michael Jackson for so long and still are until this day by his fans who simply don't care or want to know about regardless of how obvious it was. That's the same exact thing that Joe Pa obviously did here and people hate him for it. I'm not arguing that people shouldn't be mad at Joe Pa.

[Htownsportsfan]

Originally Posted by Hardcore Texan

Sandusky was retired. No job to lose man.

He still had an office on campus and full access to the facility with only the limitation that he couldn't bring young guests to the facilities.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by Htownsportsfan

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but after reading the 23 page indictment Paternos story just doesnt make sense. The graduate assistant who saw the assault take place and went to see Paterno. I dont give a damn if he only used the word fondle when he tried to describe what he saw. Do you really think at that point Paterno would not be so shocked he would ask for every detail to try and prove it was a misunderstanding? If someone came to you and told you they saw someone you knew well for over 30 years touching a child let alone sodomising a ten year old boy you wouldn't demand more detail? If Paterno dint demand more information then he is beyond inept! The only thing Paterno did along with the Ad was tell Sandusky he wasnt allowed to bring young kids into the facility anymore. Joe Pa was a great football coach and man for many years but his inaction helped a child predator continue his assault on kids. That is inexcusable for anyone in any position!

I agree with you man. Sorry, if some of the things I said came from left field and I got on a rant about MJ, but I hear other pedophiles celebrated in our country currently and this comes out and people are enraged as they should be, but I just can't help but to get a little ticked at the fact that so many people pick and choose who to find things wrong with and or turn a blind eye on due to their talents or fan worship.

[ArlingtonTexan]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

The thing that gets me about this case is that people are wanting to burn Joe Pa at the stake and the more I read into it, it does sound like he should have done more to get this coach out of there and anyone involved I'd say. Just skimming some of the pages in here, I"m finding out more and more and it's harder and harder to see the POV of some of the posters who want to defend Joe Pa. He wasn't the perpetrator though, and I can't believe that he is being WAY more talked about and burned here than the actual guy who did it.

What gets me the most is all of the inconsistencies on this subject though. Shoot, for the last few years I've been having to hear posters on this board, celebs, and other random folks all over the place praising the biggest child molester of all time in Michael Jackson who had a pedophile ranch, paid off his accusers, openly admitted to doing all types of things that were obvious as day, and yet so many people have turned a blind eye to all of that and just stated that he was "weird" or that his daddy messed him up and all types of pathetic spin efforts. Sorry, but this may be from left field, but I think half the people in this thread that are wanting Joe Pa burned at the stake are big time hypocrites, because I remember hearing a lot of people celebrating MJ when he passed and wanting to "look the other way" every time it was mentioned, and MJ was far bigger than this story if people really wanted to read about all of that stuff that went on. MIKE TYSON is another perfect example as well. Dude raped a woman and sexually assaulted Peter Welcsh's daughter when she was a minor and also beat the living crap out of Robyn Givens, yet Mike Tyson is hardly ever even mentioned amongst rapists and guys of this kind and his career and his legacy is constantly being headlined and covered as if these things never happened. It is sounding more and more like Joe Pa's criticisms here are warrented though, the more that I read about what he "had to have known" at certain points. Joe Pa could have had this guy fired no question. He had more power and seniority than anyone at that program.

Sorry, I know that this post is going to tick a few people off. It wasn't my intention, so I'll apologize for how it may have come off, but if rape and pedophilia is so wrong which it damn sure is, then folks need to be a lot more consistent when putting the clues together and turning a blind eye because of who they like or dislike as entertainers, coaches, and athletes.

Apples to oranges. Plenty of people who have hate for those guys you have talked about.

It is the difference between a couple of individuals versus and entire university of higher learning (one that is consider the very best in the country if not the world). This is sports/college version of the Catholic church's cover up the same behaviors from its priest. that is the only true comparison.

Not that I am forgiving the individual criminals listed in your post.

[Hardcore Texan]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

I agree with you man. Sorry, if some of the things I said came from left field and I got on a rant about MJ, but I hear other pedophiles celebrated in our country currently and this comes out and people are enraged as they should be, but I just can't help but to get a little ticked at the fact that so many people pick and choose who to find things wrong with and or turn a blind eye on due to their talents or fan worship.

Unless you are going to go back and single out people who defended MJ and are now condemning JoePa to prove your point about specific people "flip flopping" then please drop these references.

[Hardcore Texan]

Originally Posted by Htownsportsfan

He still had an office on campus and full access to the facility with only the limitation that he couldn't bring young guests to the facilities.

Did he or did he not retire in 1998 amid other previous allegations? I may be getting the specifics confused. How did he get the kid on campus in 2002 if he had that privelege taken away? Why did he commit these horrific acts in the football locker room shower?

[Htownsportsfan]

Originally Posted by Texecutioner

I agree with you man. Sorry, if some of the things I said came from left field and I got on a rant about MJ, but I hear other pedophiles celebrated in our country currently and this comes out and people are enraged as they should be, but I just can't help but to get a little ticked at the fact that so many people pick and choose who to find things wrong with and or turn a blind eye on due to their talents or fan worship.

Understood. But keep in mind MJ fans that that make those arguments and get all the attention are more the fringe exception than the rule. Joe Paterno for 50+ years was a man who helped mold many great men both on and off the field. However somehow someway he lapsed severely in judgement and that lapse allowed Sandusky to continue hurting kids. There are others just a culpable but as football fans we have all come to expect more from a man like Joe Pa. This isnt some recruiting violation or booster scam that we can argue the severity of this is far worse. I still am amazed that these men Paterno, McQueary and others not only failed to get authorities involved in 2002 but have failed to do so in the almost decade since.

[Htownsportsfan]

Originally Posted by Hardcore Texan

Did he or did he not retire in 1998 amid other previous allegations? How did he get the kid on campus in 2002 if he had that privelege taken away? Why did he commit these horrific acts in the football locker room shower?

I agree, I accidently quoted your post and didnt get it edited in time. My bad.

[TexanSam]

Originally Posted by Arsenal

I hope everyone whining for his firing is happy. The football program will suffer for many years to come.
I read this in an article and at least the Board has been swift with the hammer.

Who gives a **** about their football program at this point? That should be the last thing on people's mind. I could care less if they shut down the program all right now.

[Texecutioner]

Originally Posted by Hardcore Texan

Unless you are going to go back and single out people who defended MJ and are now condemning JoePa to prove your point about specific people "flip flopping" then please drop these references.

I could name a few, but then I'm just picking a fight and trying to make people look bad. Not my intention here. I tried to stay away from this thread the last few days, but I can't escape the subject every time I turn on the tv, the radio, or come in here. The coverage is non stop.

I hear about Jackson every day though with this current trial going on with hundreds of his supporters crying and celebrating this man and could care less about what facts were existent. I don't hear anyone in here mentioning that and their disgust for how much a pedophile is worshiped every day where that trial has been going on. Bag on Joe Pa for turning a blind eye if you want, but don't turn right around and do the same with these other entertainers who have done much worse and have actually been perpetrators of crimes like this.

Originally Posted by Htownsportsfan

Understood. But keep in mind MJ fans that that make those arguments and get all the attention are more the fringe exception than the rule. Joe Paterno for 50+ years was a man who helped mold many great men both on and off the field. However somehow someway he lapsed severely in judgement and that lapse allowed Sandusky to continue hurting kids. There are others just a culpable but as football fans we have all come to expect more from a man like Joe Pa. This isnt some recruiting violation or booster scam that we can argue the severity of this is far worse. I still am amazed that these men Paterno, McQueary and others not only failed to get authorities involved in 2002 but have failed to do so in the almost decade since.

I wouldn't call them the fringe exception. I see more as a majority by far. I'm not arguing with your perspective though. I see exactly where you're coming from and understand your feelings here.

[ArlingtonTexan]

Originally Posted by Htownsportsfan

Understood. But keep in mind MJ fans that that make those arguments and get all the attention are more the fringe exception than the rule. Joe Paterno for 50+ years was a man who helped mold many great men both on and off the field. However somehow someway he lapsed severely in judgement and that lapse allowed Sandusky to continue hurting kids. There are others just a culpable but as football fans we have all come to expect more from a man like Joe Pa. This isnt some recruiting violation or booster scam that we can argue the severity of this is far worse. I still am amazed that these men Paterno, McQueary and others not only failed to get authorities involved in 2002 but have failed to do so in the almost decade since.

I think I posted something similiar earlier. One of the real issues here in this case, is that Paterno has been considered a 'BETTER" man than all but a few of us. Still at the end of day, the guy did the minimium and probably less than many, if not most of us would have done.