Penn State Child Molestation Case

[toronto]

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan

Joe paterno's current statement

http://www.canada.com/Statement+Pate...#ixzz1dDAHVgaw


STATE COLLEGE, Pa. - I am absolutely devastated by the developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families, and I pray for their comfort and relief.

I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care. I have the same goal today.

That's why I have decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season. At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can.
This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.

My goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the rest of my life doing everything I can to help this University.

That statement is laughable - the school is right now the focus point, and his department is responsible for the most revenue, and all of this is effected and to a degree paralyzed by his presence.

Worse is what he doesn't realize what's coming - he's likely going to be named in class action lawsuits. Its not going away Joe, unless you pass away, then your kids get to deal with your mess.

[gary]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

I would absolutely agree that he should retire right now. I think that's inevitable and the sooner he does it (even if every word he's said is true and he did not know the seriousness of the allegations) the better off he will be and the quicker this will be resolved. Sandusky is definitely going down. The administrators who covered up for him are going down. Paterno needs to get out of the way. Who he is and the position he's in there is taking away from the process that needs to happen. He's got his story and he's sticking to it. That's fine, step aside and let justice be served to the people who have it coming.

He is old and I have personally seen where older folks in the work place just there doing their thing in the background without knowing what is going on from within. I would not doubt that at all in this case. Joe has been leagally cleared here and yet people just want to rag on him I almost want to send him a letter of support myself. What we have here is the public becoming morally tied to the victims and not looking at this story as an outsider.

[Grams]

Originally Posted by gary

He is old and I have personally seen where older folks in the work place just there doing their thing in the background without knowing what is going on from within. I would not doubt that at all in this case. Joe has been leagally cleared here and yet people just want to rag on him I almost want to send him a letter of support myself. What we have here is the public becoming morally tied to the victims and not looking at this story as an outsider.

I am looking at this story as an outsider. He did what he legally should have done by notifying his superiors. But he also did not notify the police. He should have known the school did not notify the police when no one came to talk to him from the police dept or the state police or even the campus police.

For the "Integrity" of the school and himself he should have called the police when he was told of the incident. For a man with supposedly much integrity, he did not do what a man should have done. As a result other boys were abused.

I fault the grad-assistant coach even more as he just turned his back and did not stop it or call the police either.

Both men knew what was going on and neither went out of their way to stop it. That to me is the kicker.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

I don't think you know enough to say that. I think it really depends on what he knew and what he was told by McQueary. People keep saying "He HAD to know" but that's a fallicy. It's shocking what people don't know and what people don't notice going on right under their noses and evidence of that happens every day. The guy is in his 80's now (70's then) and I'm not at all shocked by the idea that he didn't know this was happening. Is it that strange to think that an elderly "figurehead type" coach might not know every detail of the program he sits on top of?

I think there is a very valid argument here that if they had a younger coach who was more involved and less of a "living mascot" then possibly that coach would have seen the signs and acted on them. I see Paterno's last decade as one of a program without a head coach at all. A coaching staff yes, a coach? Not so much.

If JoePa didn't know, it's because he didn't want to know. If any moral human being is informed of child abuse to this level, not only do they have a responsibility to notify the authorities, they damn well ought to have the moral fortitude to follow up on it and find out what the result was. How is the kid? How is the accused? What was the evidence? If it's his coach perpetrating, should he look to replace him? Hell, you get one reporter or TV personality saying some crazy **** and all his superiors want him fired, even if he doesn't directly work for them (Hank Williams, anyone?). But JoePa just puts in a call to his AD and washes his hands of the matter? That's complete bull****.

And the fact that the man is 84 doesn't exonerate him one bit, in my eyes. It makes him even more culpable, because at age 84, you damn well know how the world works and how even people you think you know are capable of dastardly ****.

JoePa didn't know because he chose not to know.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by eriadoc

If JoePa didn't know, it's because he didn't want to know. If any moral human being is informed of child abuse to this level, not only do they have a responsibility to notify the authorities, they damn well ought to have the moral fortitude to follow up on it and find out what the result was. How is the kid? How is the accused? What was the evidence? If it's his coach perpetrating, should he look to replace him? Hell, you get one reporter or TV personality saying some crazy **** and all his superiors want him fired, even if he doesn't directly work for them (Hank Williams, anyone?). But JoePa just puts in a call to his AD and washes his hands of the matter? That's complete bull****.

And the fact that the man is 84 doesn't exonerate him one bit, in my eyes. It makes him even more culpable, because at age 84, you damn well know how the world works and how even people you think you know are capable of dastardly ****.

JoePa didn't know because he chose not to know.

And you know this because you want to know it. That wraps up nicely.

[Hookem Horns]

Originally Posted by gary

He is old and I have personally seen where older folks in the work place just there doing their thing in the background without knowing what is going on from within. I would not doubt that at all in this case. Joe has been leagally cleared here and yet people just want to rag on him I almost want to send him a letter of support myself. What we have here is the public becoming morally tied to the victims and not looking at this story as an outsider.

Are you a PSU fan?

[ArlingtonTexan]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

And you know this because you want to know it. That wraps up nicely.

I can't place my hand on the link (got to work), but the indications are that the GA and his Dad were graphic in describing the situation to Joe Pa. This very he said versus he said, as such it is always hard if not impossible to prove.

[toronto]

Originally Posted by gary

He is old and I have personally seen where older folks in the work place just there doing their thing in the background without knowing what is going on from within. I would not doubt that at all in this case. Joe has been leagally cleared here and yet people just want to rag on him I almost want to send him a letter of support myself. What we have here is the public becoming morally tied to the victims and not looking at this story as an outsider.

Being old is a ridiculous excuse - if anything that lends to the question why the hell an 84 year old is running a top Division 1 program.

9 years ago he made a morally bankrupt choice. Did he break the law? No. Did he break laws of simple and basic decency? Hell yes.

I don't want to rag on him. I simply want him gone. Its Sandusky and the administration that chose to cover this all up that I want behind bars.

[PsychoLove]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

All I'm saying is that I want to know what he knew. We probably will never find out now because the stock answer is going to be "I knew nothing" or at the very least "I knew very little".

I find it possible that he didn't know. This might be one of the few instances where I think there's a chance of that. Paterno was in his mid 70's when this took place if I'm not mistaken. He's 84 now. I don't know enough about the program there to say to what degree he's a figurehead. I also haven't come across any details regarding what McQueary presumably said to him. I saw something yesterday in the news about what he told Paterno differeing from the detailed version he gave the grand jury. How different?

I want to know more before torching Paterno but at the same time I confess I think the story is something I don't want to dig too deeply into. It's disturbing and I'm not being paid to find out who needs some swift justice here. I want justice, I just don't want to see Paterno burned at the stake if he didn't know the details of what happened.

What the hell you want, video? Anal semen samples? Be a live witness?

Isn't 20 victims enough right now?

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan

I can't place my hand on the link (got to work), but the indications are that the GA and his Dad were graphic in describing the situation to Joe Pa. This very he said versus he said, as such it is always hard if not impossible to prove.

I understand. Everything I've seen has said otherwise. Like I said in one of my first posts in this thread it's going to be nearly impossible to know for certain what was said and what Paterno knew is the single most important thing about this as far as his actions are concerned.

Originally Posted by toronto

Being old is a ridiculous excuse - if anything that lends to the question why the hell an 84 year old is running a top Division 1 program.

9 years ago he made a morally bankrupt choice. Did he break the law? No. Did he break laws of simple and basic decency? Hell yes.

I don't want to rag on him. I simply want him gone. Its Sandusky and the administration that chose to cover this all up that I want behind bars.

I want him gone too and think waiting until the end of the year is a mistake. The sooner he steps down the sooner they can tear it all down and start over and they're going to have to start over no matter what happened.

I don't think being old is a ridiculous excuse though. I think it's the only perfectly plausible excuse on the table. Being an old "legend" there puts him in a position where people don't want to tell him bad news. People don't want to upset him. People are hesitant to bring things like this to him. People insulate and protect figures like that.

Sometimes.

Maybe he did screw up. He's saying as much now and saying that he wishes he'd pursued it further. I just don't think it's inconcievable that Paterno didn't get the full story. It's possible. That's all I'm saying. Doesn't change the fact that now it's a moot point and he needs to step down.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by Monster49er

What the hell you want, video? Anal semen samples? Be a live witness?

Isn't 20 victims enough right now?

You're talking about this with emotion and I'm being reasonable. If you can find me 20 victims that Joe Paterno personally sodomized then I'm going to concede the point but Sandusky is the rapist pedophile and Paterno is the football coach who reported what he was told to his superior.

IF he was told that Sandusky was sodomizing a 10 year old in no uncertain terms then the only appropriate response was "Call the police right now".

If McQueary and his father beat around the bush and found a way to say just enough to clear their conscience (How you do that after you saw a kid being molested and did nothing I don't know) and left him with a "What are they talking about, I'm going to call the AD and get him to look into it" idea then maybe that was the appropriate response.

You don't know what he was or wasn't told. I don't either. All I'm saying is that before you crucify the guy (and he may have that coming to him) you might want to have an idea what he knew.

Suggesting that we take the time to find out all the facts before wiping this guy out is not the same thing as demanding that we get a ten year old out and sodomize him front of JoePa to see if he understands the specifics of the act. Take your moral outrage and your slowly forming straw-man argument (not inclined to wait around to be lumped in with the folks at Penn State thank you) somewhere else. I've been perfectly clear about this.

[cuppacoffee]

[quote=gary;1823907]

Originally Posted by Porky

Gary I love you man - but why the hell are you defending Paterno? Put yourself in the shoes of one of those boys. At best JoePa turned a blind eye to child abuse, and at worst he knowingly let it happen. How can you support a man who would do that just for the sake of retaining the prestige of himself and Penn St?[/QUOTE]

Is that what he did or is it just because of the way he handled it? DB said I have a lot to learn. Please. I know what I would have done but I am not everyone. Why do I still have much to learn, because I stand by my unpopular opinion? What has happened to everyone having a fair say? Not today pepole not today.

I am as disgusted as the next person about what happened at Penn State.

Reading this thread gives me visions of a lynch mob in an old western movie.

It’s easy to see how vigilante groups were formed back in the day.

Just an observation, not a judgment call.

[PsychoLove]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

You're talking about this with emotion and I'm being reasonable. If you can find me 20 victims that Joe Paterno personally sodomized then I'm going to concede the point but Sandusky is the rapist pedophile and Paterno is the football coach who reported what he was told to his superior.

IF he was told that Sandusky was sodomizing a 10 year old in no uncertain terms then the only appropriate response was "Call the police right now".

If McQueary and his father beat around the bush and found a way to say just enough to clear their conscience (How you do that after you saw a kid being molested and did nothing I don't know) and left him with a "What are they talking about, I'm going to call the AD and get him to look into it" idea then maybe that was the appropriate response.

You don't know what he was or wasn't told. I don't either. All I'm saying is that before you crucify the guy (and he may have that coming to him) you might want to have an idea what he knew.

Suggesting that we take the time to find out all the facts before wiping this guy out is not the same thing as demanding that we get a ten year old out and sodomize him front of JoePa to see if he understands the specifics of the act. Take your moral outrage and your slowly forming straw-man argument (not inclined to wait around to be lumped in with the folks at Penn State thank you) somewhere else. I've been perfectly clear about this.

If JoePa runs out to the field against Nebraska this weekend, it will be a shame. We are not talking about 1 or 2 kids here. We are talking about at least 20. If JoePa had gone to the police, many kids would have normal lives today. I hope you have read the transcript.

[Honoring Earl 34]

[quote=cuppacoffee;1824019]

Originally Posted by gary

I am as disgusted as the next person about what happened at Penn State.

Reading this thread gives me visions of a lynch mob in an old western movie.

It’s easy to see how vigilante groups were formed back in the day.

Just an observation, not a judgment call.

So you want a pitchfork or an axe ?

[Grams]

The more I read about this, the more angry I become.

Everyone wants to crucify Paterno - rightly so. He needs to retire immediately.

But almost everyone is forgetting that a grown man saw the rape in the showers and all he did was turn his back on the 10 year old boy and walk back to his office and call his Dad instead of the police. Then waited till the next day to call Paterno who also waited a day to call the AD.

Why aren't more calling for his resignation also.

They talk about integrity and honor at Penn State. But there is none. All each and everyone of them were doing was trying to protect the University from a scandal. It would have been over and done with, if they had just called the police at that time. They would have been thought of as heros to stop this back in 2002.

In this day and age, it will be a long long time before the dust settles. JoePa now has a not so stellar reputation. The school and it leaders will be looked upon as men trying to save their reputations instead of trying to save young boys from a sexual predator.

I still cannot understand how a grown man can turn his back and walk away from a young boy being sodomized.

[Honoring Earl 34]

Originally Posted by Grams

The more I read about this, the more angry I become.

Everyone wants to crucify Paterno - rightly so. He needs to retire immediately.

But almost everyone is forgetting that a grown man saw the rape in the showers and all he did was turn his back on the 10 year old boy and walk back to his office and call his Dad instead of the police. Then waited till the next day to call Paterno who also waited a day to call the AD.

Why aren't more calling for his resignation also.

They talk about integrity and honor at Penn State. But there is none. All each and everyone of them were doing was trying to protect the University from a scandal. It would have been over and done with, if they had just called the police at that time. They would have been thought of as heros to stop this back in 2002.

In this day and age, it will be a long long time before the dust settles. JoePa now has a not so stellar reputation. The school and it leaders will be looked upon as men trying to save their reputations instead of trying to save young boys from a sexual predator.

I still cannot understand how a grown man can turn his back and walk away from a young boy being sodomized.

That's the strange part about being bigger than the rules . Not just any rules but rules of decency and what's moral . Was he afraid that by ratting on or bashing Sandusky upside the head he was going to get in trouble ?

[drewmar74]

[quote=Honoring Earl 34;1824025]

Originally Posted by cuppacoffee

So you want a pitchfork or an axe ?

I'll take a torch, thank you very much.

[utahmark]

For anyone that thinks that Joe should be left alone because he may not of done anything wrong by legal standards I have to say, Who gives a ****. This country is falling apart because 90% of the people in power of this country will do everything they can to abuse and work their way around every loop hole they can find, within our legal system, to either stay in power or get more power. Most sane people will put morals ahead of the law everytime and if your not one of those people then you might want to take another look at yourself.

[eriadoc]

Originally Posted by Grams

The more I read about this, the more angry I become.

Likewise. I keep telling myself I'll turn off the news and not click this thread.

Everyone wants to crucify Paterno - rightly so. He needs to retire immediately.

But almost everyone is forgetting that a grown man saw the rape in the showers and all he did was turn his back on the 10 year old boy and walk back to his office and call his Dad instead of the police.

I'm trying not to come into this thread, much less post, but that was one of the first things that came to mind for me. If I were that 28 year old grad assistant and I walked in on that, there would be blood on the shower floor. I'd call the cops after and let them sort it out afterward, but there would have been some tossing around of a pedophile rapist.

Everyone involved in this case failed and is a disgustingly immoral human being that deserves to die a slow, painful, medieval death. That's about as nicely as I can put it.

[Honoring Earl 34]

Originally Posted by Arsenal

I feel terrible for the players. They had nothing to do with this. Their next game is Senior Day. That's just terrible for them that all of this will mar their day. Plus, with all of the distractions. They are still going for a Big Ten Championship. It's quite unfortunate for them.

Yep ... there's no way they can't be distracted or feel like crawling under a rock .