Penn State Child Molestation Case

[Honoring Earl 34]

Originally Posted by Runner

"Moral nihilists assert that morality does not inherently exist, and that any established moral values are abstractly contrived." - http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism

I have studied a bit of philosophy in my time. This type of nihilism seemed to me to be a "look how cool-cynical I am" position. It seemed lazy to me too; proponents don't have to prove anything, just demand that others prove competing theories correct.

That's how I feel about the subject in philosophical banter anyway. Moral nihilism as a guiding principle in real life is degenerate.

I suspect those who claim to believe such crap only believe it when they aren't on the receiving end of what they would consider degenerate behavior.

As a society if you can't protect your elderly , women , and children the what does that say ?

Other things I've gathered from this ........

Have we become so enamored with sports that we put that in front of all things ?

It's funny that some folks talk about Sandusky being gay . He wasn't gay he was a pedophile , a child rapist . It doesn't make a guy who rapes a 10 year old girl straight either .

I've read where Sandusky is the most dangerous type of pedophile . The nice guy who goes in and gains confidence in the family or child and then abuses them . It makes me start thinking about my kids and was someone trying to get his foot in the door . That's what stuff like this does it makes you wonder . Having said that , any grown man coming around my house showering my kids with gifts and such would have set off alarms . I've always thought that women are the more pateral ones and have been leery of males who want to get close to other peoples kids .

[toronto]

AP reporting Paterno will retire at the end of the season.

That isn't going to satisfy ANYONE. If he is on the sideline or even present inside the stadium this Saturday then Penn State will have lost any credibility it has left.

They cannot let him stick around another minute, even if he is a supposed god there.

[disaacks3]

Originally Posted by Arsenal

You are correct but I'm not against taking the next step. That next step is a personal choice because he doesn't have to do so. I'm not trying to sound like I'm condemning the idea of notifying the authorities and if I am then I sincerely apologize. My point was he may haven't met his moral responsibility but morality is subjective because what's moral for one may not be for another. The bare mininum was met therefore I don't think he should be legally punished.

Well, the next question is legally punished by whom? If the NCAA, who gets all in a tizzy if a booster so much as leaves a tip at a dinner table when going to dinner with a player thinks this is OK, I'm gonna hurl. A coach is supposed to be responsible for the actions of his players AND staff. If he can be fined / fired for minor offenses, where in the hell does allowing sodomy of a child fall?

You can't take back what happened to these kids, but you CAN try to make it "right".

[Porky]

I find it hard to believe that anyone can defend JoePa or anyone else involved in these crimes against children. This is reprehensible. It's kind of part of our anything goes culture though where we aren't allowed to make moral judgements about others. Many were defending Vick after he fought and killed dogs because they didn't own dogs, and now we have people saying they basically don't care because they don't have children. Huh?

So now we are only to expect people to do the bare min as required by law and no more? This sort of reminds me of that baby over in China a few weeks ago. I think DB has posted about the little girl that got ran over while people just walked right over and past her. Disgusting. This is just as bad, if not worse.

People in general thouroughly disgust me. I swear one day I am going unabomber mode - I'll just build a shack in the woods and live off the land and shun all communication to the outside world and that way I can be blissfully ignorant of all the evil that takes place - all right under the noses of others who do nothing at all too stop it.

[Honoring Earl 34]

Originally Posted by Porky

I find it hard to believe that anyone can defend JoePa or anyone else involved in these crimes against children. This is reprehensible. It's kind of part of our anything goes culture though where we aren't allowed to make moral judgements about others. Many were defending Vick after he fought and killed dogs because they didn't own dogs, and now we have people saying they basically don't care because they don't have children. Huh?

So now we are only to expect people to do the bare min as required by law and no more? This sort of reminds me of that baby over in China a few weeks ago. I think DB has posted about the little girl that got ran over while people just walked right over and past her. Disgusting. This is just as bad, if not worse.

People in general thouroughly disgust me. I swear one day I am going unabomber mode - I'll just build a shack in the woods and live off the land and shun all communication to the outside world and that way I can be blissfully ignorant of all the evil that takes place - all right under the noses of others who do nothing at all too stop it.

You know it's pretty bad when folks say " you think Paterno was that naive or focussed on football " . I'm about 50/50 with that being the answer . The other 50 is Sandusky wasn't the only one and this was a dirty little secret .

[gary]

The statement just given by Joe makes me sad, God bless him he gave his heart and soul for that school but the director should go to hell and burn. Joe did not follow the morals of the majority so he is now evil. Look at those who showed up at his home last night to support him good for them.

[Porky]

Originally Posted by gary

The statement just given by Joe makes me sad, God bless him he gave his heart and soul for that school but the director should go to hell and burn. Joe did not follow the morals of the majority so he is now evil. Look at those who showed up at his home last night to support him good for them.

Gary I love you man - but why the hell are you defending Paterno? Put yourself in the shoes of one of those boys. At best JoePa turned a blind eye to child abuse, and at worst he knowingly let it happen. How can you support a man who would do that just for the sake of retaining the prestige of himself and Penn St?

[Honoring Earl 34]

Originally Posted by gary

The statement just given by Joe makes me sad, God bless him he gave his heart and soul for that school but the director should go to hell and burn. Joe did not follow the morals of the majority so he is now evil. Look at those who showed up at his home last night to support him good for them.

Has nothing to do with morals of the majority . It has to do with priorities and what's right to protect 10 year old boys from a rapist .

If Vinny , DB , GHF , Bill , Thorn , Runner , Porky , and me were standing in a line with shotguns and a rabid pitbull came after you and we all yelled " watch out " is that good enough . If one of us pulled the trigger you wouldn't have gotten mauled . If another had pulled the trigger then that rabid pitbull wouldn't have made it to the park and mauled 5 more kids . Anyone of them could have put a stop to it and didn't .

Having grown up in the Dean Coryl era I remember the devastation and fear he brought . His own accomplice killed him or he would have kept going . Same with Sandusky except Sandusky hasn't killed anyone .

[toronto]

Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34

Has nothing to do with morals of the majority . It has to do with priorities and what's right to protect 10 year old boys from a rapist .

If Vinny , DB , GHF , Bill , Thorn , Runner , Porky , and me were standing in a line with shotguns and a rabid pitbull came after you and we all yelled " watch out " is that good enough . If one of us pulled the trigger you wouldn't have gotten mauled . If another had pulled the trigger then that rabid pitbull wouldn't have made it to the park and mauled 5 more kids . Anyone of them could have put a stop to it and didn't .

Having grown up in the Dean Coryl era I remember the devastation and fear he brought . His own accomplice killed him or he would have kept going . Same with Sandusky except Sandusky hasn't killed anyone .

Unless those kids, now adults eventually starting killing themselves or are so ****ed up that they start breaking the law. It never will leave those kids, no matter how hard they try to exorcise the demons. Sandusky has ****ed those kids up for life, and for all we know, they're already a bit dead inside.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by Vinny

If one of your coaches is giving 10 year old kids blowJ's and anal sex in your locker room....he knows. NO way he didn't know. I refuse to believe nobody told him details...no friggin' way. Chain of command isn't an excuse for covering up criminal behavior...especially with kids. Paterno should go to jail.

All I'm saying is that I want to know what he knew. We probably will never find out now because the stock answer is going to be "I knew nothing" or at the very least "I knew very little".

I find it possible that he didn't know. This might be one of the few instances where I think there's a chance of that. Paterno was in his mid 70's when this took place if I'm not mistaken. He's 84 now. I don't know enough about the program there to say to what degree he's a figurehead. I also haven't come across any details regarding what McQueary presumably said to him. I saw something yesterday in the news about what he told Paterno differeing from the detailed version he gave the grand jury. How different?

I want to know more before torching Paterno but at the same time I confess I think the story is something I don't want to dig too deeply into. It's disturbing and I'm not being paid to find out who needs some swift justice here. I want justice, I just don't want to see Paterno burned at the stake if he didn't know the details of what happened.

[gary]

[quote=Porky;1823889]Gary I love you man - but why the hell are you defending Paterno? Put yourself in the shoes of one of those boys. At best JoePa turned a blind eye to child abuse, and at worst he knowingly let it happen. How can you support a man who would do that just for the sake of retaining the prestige of himself and Penn St?[/QUOTE]Is that what he did or is it just because of the way he handled it? DB said I have a lot to learn. Please. I know what I would have done but I am not everyone. Why do I still have much to learn, because I stand by my unpopular opinion? What has happened to everyone having a fair say? Not today pepole not today.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by Porky

Gary I love you man - but why the hell are you defending Paterno? Put yourself in the shoes of one of those boys. At best JoePa turned a blind eye to child abuse, and at worst he knowingly let it happen. How can you support a man who would do that just for the sake of retaining the prestige of himself and Penn St?

I don't think you know enough to say that. I think it really depends on what he knew and what he was told by McQueary. People keep saying "He HAD to know" but that's a fallicy. It's shocking what people don't know and what people don't notice going on right under their noses and evidence of that happens every day. The guy is in his 80's now (70's then) and I'm not at all shocked by the idea that he didn't know this was happening. Is it that strange to think that an elderly "figurehead type" coach might not know every detail of the program he sits on top of?

I think there is a very valid argument here that if they had a younger coach who was more involved and less of a "living mascot" then possibly that coach would have seen the signs and acted on them. I see Paterno's last decade as one of a program without a head coach at all. A coaching staff yes, a coach? Not so much.

[Grams]

I have been reading about this anb listening to various media opinions.

It just comes down to the facts: they knew what was going on in 1998 - when he "retired".

Why did they let him back in the school property, why did they not notify his orgaization, why did they not investigate more?

In 2002 - why did the guy just not stop the rape, why did he just turn around and walk out? Why did he wait till the next day to tell someone, why did he just not call the police? Why did no one call the police at that time. Why did Paterno wait a day to tell his "superiors"?

And then no one calls the police and the guy is back on the campus and no one notices?

It may not be that Paterno did anything illegal, but it sure was not morally right.
States volumes about the "Integrity" he keeps preaching about.

He does not need to retire at the end of the season, he needs to retire immediately or they need to fire him immediately - along with the assistant coach that just turned his back on the 10 year old boy being raped.

[Honoring Earl 34]

Originally Posted by toronto

Unless those kids, now adults eventually starting killing themselves or are so ****ed up that they start breaking the law. It never will leave those kids, no matter how hard they try to exorcise the demons. Sandusky has ****ed those kids up for life, and for all we know, they're already a bit dead inside.

Oh no doubt that they are scarred for life . The most premitive and basic social structure in the country is a maximum security unit . If you were to release Sandusky in there with no protection , they'd kill him . He would be the most despised out of all the others . What's that tell you ?

This is why they say a coward dies a 1000 deaths because those who did nothing are going to have to see and hear what's believed to be near 20 cases of boys who were raped .

[Runner]

Originally Posted by Hervoyel

All I'm saying is that I want to know what he knew. We probably will never find out now because the stock answer is going to be "I knew nothing" or at the very least "I knew very little".

I find it possible that he didn't know. This might be one of the few instances where I think there's a chance of that. Paterno was in his mid 70's when this took place if I'm not mistaken. He's 84 now. I don't know enough about the program there to say to what degree he's a figurehead. I also haven't come across any details regarding what McQueary presumably said to him. I saw something yesterday in the news about what he told Paterno differeing from the detailed version he gave the grand jury. How different?

I want to know more before torching Paterno but at the same time I confess I think the story is something I don't want to dig too deeply into. It's disturbing and I'm not being paid to find out who needs some swift justice here. I want justice, I just don't want to see Paterno burned at the stake if he didn't know the details of what happened.

It also stood out to me that what Paterno said he was told was far different from the detailed grand jury testimony. That's a pretty thin thread to hang onto though, given the fact that other investigations that took place should have raised his awareness level.

Am I for burning an innocent man at the stake? No. I'm also not for covering up what happened to protect a guilty man.

As you say, we need to let this play out. I find it likely that many, many people share culpability in the end. Initial evidence is damning and will be hard to counter.

[Honoring Earl 34]

Originally Posted by Grams

I have been reading about this anb listening to various media opinions.

It just comes down to the facts: they knew what was going on in 1998 - when he "retired".

Why did they let him back in the school property, why did they not notify his orgaization, why did they not investigate more?

In 2002 - why did the guy just not stop the rape, why did he just turn around and walk out? Why did he wait till the next day to tell someone, why did he just not call the police? Why did no one call the police at that time. Why did Paterno wait a day to tell his "superiors"?

And then no one calls the police and the guy is back on the campus and no one notices?

It may not be that Paterno did anything illegal, but it sure was not morally right.
States volumes about the "Integrity" he keeps preaching about.

He does not need to retire at the end of the season, he needs to retire immediately or they need to fire him immediately - along with the assistant coach that just turned his back on the 10 year old boy being raped.

I'd bet dollars to donuts that Paterno knew and that's why Sandusky was told he wouldn't be head coach and needed to retire .

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by Grams

I have been reading about this anb listening to various media opinions.

It just comes down to the facts: they knew what was going on in 1998 - when he "retired".

Why did they let him back in the school property, why did they not notify his orgaization, why did they not investigate more?

In 2002 - why did the guy just not stop the rape, why did he just turn around and walk out? Why did he wait till the next day to tell someone, why did he just not call the police? Why did no one call the police at that time. Why did Paterno wait a day to tell his "superiors"?

And then no one calls the police and the guy is back on the campus and no one notices?

It may not be that Paterno did anything illegal, but it sure was not morally right.
States volumes about the "Integrity" he keeps preaching about.

He does not need to retire at the end of the season, he needs to retire immediately or they need to fire him immediately - along with the assistant coach that just turned his back on the 10 year old boy being raped.

I would absolutely agree that he should retire right now. I think that's inevitable and the sooner he does it (even if every word he's said is true and he did not know the seriousness of the allegations) the better off he will be and the quicker this will be resolved. Sandusky is definitely going down. The administrators who covered up for him are going down. Paterno needs to get out of the way. Who he is and the position he's in there is taking away from the process that needs to happen. He's got his story and he's sticking to it. That's fine, step aside and let justice be served to the people who have it coming.

[ArlingtonTexan]

Joe paterno's current statement

http://www.canada.com/Statement+Pate...#ixzz1dDAHVgaw


STATE COLLEGE, Pa. - I am absolutely devastated by the developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families, and I pray for their comfort and relief.

I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care. I have the same goal today.

That's why I have decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season. At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can.

This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.

My goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the rest of my life doing everything I can to help this University.

[Hervoyel]

Originally Posted by Runner

It also stood out to me that what Paterno said he was told was far different from the detailed grand jury testimony. That's a pretty thin thread to hang onto though, given the fact that other investigations that took place should have raised his awareness level.

Am I for burning an innocent man at the stake? No. I'm also not for covering up what happened to protect a guilty man.

As you say, we need to let this play out. I find it likely that many, many people share culpability in the end. Initial evidence is damning and will be hard to counter.

That's really all I'm saying. It needs to play out. People need to testify and the story needs to be uncovered.

I don't know how he's treated there. I mean, I know Paterno "walks on water" like coaches at other huge programs. Bear Bryant, Eddie Robinson, etc; but I don't know to what degree he is at 75 (then) or 84 (now) a figurehead. Does everybody keep ugly details from JoePa? Is he a stuffed bear they trot out or is he active in running the program? I just don't know that so I'm saying if he's detached from the details then I could see him being unaware that it was happening.

I'm just saying hold up on the firing squad until we know what's happened and who did/knew/said/hid what.

[toronto]

I know this much.

I've been watching sports religiously since I was 6 years old and this is the first time ever I have ever been morally disgusted, angry and wanting justice.

This story is just as ugly as it will ever get for sports.