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Old 10-14-2011   #321
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

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Kjax was our first round pick. Allen was a street FA.

Both suck and that has been said plenty of times.

Kjax hasn't made the amount of big plays since hes been here that Allen has made in the past 5 quarters.

Allen atleast gets his hands on balls and causes turnovers in between getting abused. Kjax doesn't.

I think it is just your perception that Allen doesn't receive criticism because it is everywhere.
At least Kjax doesn't get physically abuse and whiff on tackles allowing for TD runs. He may deflect a ball or so, but he also gives up yardages due to poor tackling.
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Old 10-14-2011   #322
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

And the fast receivers of Oakland would run past KJ like he was standing in dry cement. We desperately need a 2nd CB. They are atrocious. My fear is they don't address CB cause that will be admitting KJ was an awful pick.
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Old 10-14-2011   #323
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

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When we're arguing who is doing better, who has "earned" playing time, it doesn't matter.
Right....That's why I also mentioned Allen making more plays than KJ...

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Allen has had what 2 INTs in that time? KJac has had a forced fumble and 2 INTs since he's been here.
I didn't specify turnovers...Allen's hit on Ward was a big play and at a crucial moment. But besides that, I was using hyperbole...Even if I was overstating it, Allen makes more plays than Kjax when he's in the game..They get roasted in different ways, but the results are similar...Kjax is more physical, tackles better...Allen runs better, plays deep passing routes a little better.

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That 4 yard tackle for a loss by Allen.... that was rare imo, you'd get a lot more of those with KJax on the field. That missed tackle that burned Allen for the touchdown, KJ would have played it the exact same way & it wouldn't have been a TD. We win the game... (actually it would have been the same, since KJ wouldn't have got the INT that led to the Dressen TD)......
I've had this conversation with my friend for the past few Sundays. If you ask him, I like Kj more than I like Allen. I call Allen a puhce several times a game. I am surprised any time he hits or makes a tackle with any kind of authority. In my book he is a few steps above Brice McCain when it comes to being physical. And that ain't a compliment.
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Old 10-14-2011   #324
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

Honestly, there is nothing to be gained from another KJ isn't any worse than these guys thread. We have seen the point for at least 6 months now. Got it. Move on.
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Old 10-14-2011   #325
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

Ummmm,

KJ is in the same class as Peterson? OK

Peterson is learning, he's 5 games into his career. Unlike KJ if the CB thing doesn't work out for Peterson he can move to S. He's big enough and is a world class athlete. What is KJ again, oh that's right if he improves he might become average at best. But at this point in his career my eyes tell me KJ doesn't have the speed to be a CB2 in the NFL. KJ= bust. Hopefully he improves.

Those still shots are begining to make me think my eyes are lying to me. Do you think we could trade KJ for Peterson? LOL
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Old 10-14-2011   #326
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

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Ummmm,

KJ is in the same class as Peterson? OK

Peterson is learning, he's 5 games into his career.
I think that's his point. Corners make mistakes & getting one to translate to instant success in the NFL is rare. Even McCourty is struggling this year. DRC... it took him a season or two before he was anybody worth talking about.

The first two games of the year, there were no complaints about KJ... through three Quarters of the Saints game... no complaints, or at least very few. He gets worked over by Brees in the 4th... & he's all of a sudden the worst CB to ever play the game again.

We're 6th this year in passing defense through 5 games. KJ played the majority of 3 of them.

So he's getting better... he's "on the right track"
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Old 10-14-2011   #327
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I think that's his point. Corners make mistakes & getting one to translate to instant success in the NFL is rare. Even McCourty is struggling this year. DRC... it took him a season or two before he was anybody worth talking about.

The first two games of the year, there were no complaints about KJ... through three Quarters of the Saints game... no complaints, or at least very few. He gets worked over by Brees in the 4th... & he's all of a sudden the worst CB to ever play the game again.

We're 6th this year in passing defense through 5 games. KJ played the majority of 3 of them.

So he's getting better... he's "on the right track"
He's not the worst, (see Petey Faggins LOL) but he's up there.

On the right track? Is that you BoBBy?

Even Wade doesn't believe in KJ. All of the still shots in the world cant fool what my eyes see. Of course my vision isn't what it used to be. LOL

Last edited by steelbtexan; 10-14-2011 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 10-14-2011   #328
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

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This thread is analyzing Peterson & McCourty, so it belongs in the NFL forum.
If you would, please move this thread back to the main forum where it belongs, thank you!
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Old 10-15-2011   #329
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

All the analysis in the world will not make Kareem Jackson into a good CB, or even a serviceable one at this point.

Any team that we play will focus heavily on the #2 CB on our team and that's just how it's going to go until the Texans defense and the #2 CB can prove that it's not a sound decision to do so.
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Old 10-15-2011   #330
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I think that's his point. Corners make mistakes & getting one to translate to instant success in the NFL is rare. Even McCourty is struggling this year. DRC... it took him a season or two before he was anybody worth talking about.
Thank you, TK!
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Old 10-15-2011   #331
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

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All the analysis in the world will not make Kareem Jackson into a good CB, or even a serviceable one at this point.

Any team that we play will focus heavily on the #2 CB on our team and that's just how it's going to go until the Texans defense and the #2 CB can prove that it's not a sound decision to do so.
The analysis showed that Jackson played better than Patrick Peterson through their respective first five games as a pro.

Both gave up 3 passing TDs.
Peterson was punked on 2 rushing TDs, Jackson none.

Both had one INT, but Jackson's INT against the Giants was "more legitimate" than Peterson's against the Seahawks.

Jackson had 5 PDs while Peterson only had 3.

Jackson made more plays on 3rd down conversions than Peterson due to his tackling prowess (this one I will have to dig, but I'm 100% positive.)

And Peterson was regarded as the best CB prospect in a long long time.
Jackson wasn't even the first CB drafted in his class.
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Old 10-15-2011   #332
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

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The analysis showed that Jackson played better than Patrick Peterson through their respective first five games as a pro.

Both gave up 3 passing TDs.
Peterson was punked on 2 rushing TDs, Jackson none.

Both had one INT, but Jackson's INT against the Giants was "more legitimate" than Peterson's against the Seahawks.

Jackson had 5 PDs while Peterson only had 3.

Jackson made more plays on 3rd down conversions than Peterson due to his tackling prowess (this one I will have to dig, but I'm 100% positive.)

And Peterson was regarded as the best CB prospect in a long long time.
Jackson wasn't even the first CB drafted in his class.

Assuming all that is true, what does any of that have to do with whther or not Kareem is a good player for us right now?
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Old 10-15-2011   #333
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

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Assuming all that is true, what does any of that have to do with whther or not Kareem is a good player for us right now?
It has to do with how rookie CBs normally perform when they are thrown into the fire (treated normally without constant babysitting from the safeties or protected by the scheme).
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Old 10-15-2011   #334
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

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Assuming all that is true, what does any of that have to do with whther or not Kareem is a good player for us right now?
I think it speaks more to the unreasonable expectations Texans' fans put on Kareem. We think he doesn't deserve a spot on an NFL team, nickel at best. Wade Phillips has him starting from day one & out comes the talks that Kubiak/McNair hamstrung him to Wade Phillips.

76 has done a very good job imo, demonstrating that if you evaluate Kj on his own merit, look at what he does well, what he doesn't do well, Kj right now is the player we drafted with the 20th overall pick & he was everything we were told he would be.

He hasn't had the success of what you'd expect from that player, but that had as much to do with the team he was put on than with KJ himself.

What do you think of when you think of a 1st round Corner? That's what Kj can be. He'll get there quicker by being on the field & playing. It makes more sense to me to put him on the field now. Just like JJ Watt & Brooks Reed, Kj is going to be a much better player at week 11 than he is now.

With Allen on the field, we've got a ceiling..... a ceiling we can reach whether we put Allen on the field now or we put him on the field in week 11.
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Old 10-15-2011   #335
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

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I think it speaks more to the unreasonable expectations Texans' fans put on Kareem. We think he doesn't deserve a spot on an NFL team, nickel at best. Wade Phillips has him starting from day one & out comes the talks that Kubiak/McNair hamstrung him to Wade Phillips.

76 has done a very good job imo, demonstrating that if you evaluate Kj on his own merit, look at what he does well, what he doesn't do well, Kj right now is the player we drafted with the 20th overall pick & he was everything we were told he would be.

He hasn't had the success of what you'd expect from that player, but that had as much to do with the team he was put on than with KJ himself.

What do you think of when you think of a 1st round Corner? That's what Kj can be. He'll get there quicker by being on the field & playing. It makes more sense to me to put him on the field now. Just like JJ Watt & Brooks Reed, Kj is going to be a much better player at week 11 than he is now.

With Allen on the field, we've got a ceiling..... a ceiling we can reach whether we put Allen on the field now or we put him on the field in week 11.
Im not so sure KJax will improve ALL that much. Its not like he is keeping it close and just missing the ball. He is being straight abused. Learning to turn your head and locate the ball is fixable, playing closer to the wide out is fixable, learning to cover a guy is NOT. He has lots of problems and nothing seems to be improving. the problem is, we have no one to go out there and fill in while we "fix" Kareem. If we keep trotting him out there and letting him get abused he could get shell shocked and never improved. We're close to the point of no return on him.
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Old 10-15-2011   #336
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
The analysis showed that Jackson played better than Patrick Peterson through their respective first five games as a pro.

Both gave up 3 passing TDs.
Peterson was punked on 2 rushing TDs, Jackson none.

Both had one INT, but Jackson's INT against the Giants was "more legitimate" than Peterson's against the Seahawks.

Jackson had 5 PDs while Peterson only had 3.

Jackson made more plays on 3rd down conversions than Peterson due to his tackling prowess (this one I will have to dig, but I'm 100% positive.)

And Peterson was regarded as the best CB prospect in a long long time.
Jackson wasn't even the first CB drafted in his class.
ok those stats can easily be viewed in many different ways. First off We were rarely punked by any running plays cause ALL TEAMS DID WAS PASS ON US.

Ok and u say a more lagitimate int ??? Have u watched the INT, it was a way bad throw right into Jacksons arms, its not like he earned it by good coverage. You want to talk about legitimate ints, then compare all of J. Allens and K.J ints since they have been with the texans, Then K.J would look really bad.
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Old 10-16-2011   #337
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

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Im not so sure KJax will improve ALL that much. Its not like he is keeping it close and just missing the ball. He is being straight abused. Learning to turn your head and locate the ball is fixable, playing closer to the wide out is fixable, learning to cover a guy is NOT. He has lots of problems and nothing seems to be improving. the problem is, we have no one to go out there and fill in while we "fix" Kareem. If we keep trotting him out there and letting him get abused he could get shell shocked and never improved. We're close to the point of no return on him.
Trust in Wade, is all I'm saying. If he puts KJ on the field, then he's seeing something we ain't.
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Old 10-16-2011   #338
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

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Trust in Wade, is all I'm saying. If he puts KJ on the field, then he's seeing something we ain't.
Agree. In Wade we trust.

Go Texans!!!
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Old 10-16-2011   #339
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

Wades having to make do with what he has.

If he had faith in KJ, Harris and Carmicheal wouldn't have been drafted. There would have been no trade up for Harris.

Carry on with the KJ love fest.
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Old 10-16-2011   #340
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Default Re: Rookie CB a quick comparison - KJ vs Patrick Peterson and others

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Trust in Wade, is all I'm saying. If he puts KJ on the field, then he's seeing something we ain't.
O I agree with this 100% and I do trust in him, but all I'm saying is, maybe corner should be a top priority yet again next off-season. He did inherit the worst secondary EVER.
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