Projected starters on defense...

[Rey]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

Regardless of what Wade has said, I feel much more comfortable with

DL -- Watt, Cody/Lewis, Mario
LBs -- Reed, Demeco/Sharpton, Cushing, Barwin
DBs -- Joseph, Quin, Manning, KJ/Allen/Harris

I'd prefer to see Smith used only as part of the rotation and, honestly, I'd prefer Warren if he's healthy. In passing situations, we could either drop Watt down to NT and put Smith at DE or put Mitchell at NT.

I know that's not what's being planned but that's what makes more sense to me.

In passing situations I don't think they will be in their base defense.

Passing situations you can put some freaky stuff out there. Mario, watts, reed and barwin would be a good four to send. Mix in a Cushing blitz to top it off.

Also, in regards to Mario I view him as a standing de. We are basically playing a 5-2 as a base defense. Of course you wouldn't be in that defense against a team like the colts.

But against a team like the ravens or Pittsburg it can be effective.

Initially I was worried about Mario at olb, but I heard wade describe his defense and what he wants to do and I'm not worried anymore.

Against the colts and teams that like to air it out I expect Mario to have his hand on the ground for much of the game.

But if a team wants to pound the ball it would seem that getting more bulk on the field would make that harder to do.

I don't expect Mario to be running with te's and backs. Sometimes he'll drop into a zone, but that's about it.

But yeah, in passing situations expect Mario to put his hand on the ground.


That's another reason I think Mitchell can play on the nose. He will basically have two d lineman on both sides of him in situations where a run is possible.

This won't be your typical 3-4 but I do believe it will be fun to watch.

[80tothezone]

Originally Posted by michaelm

I'm not exactly sure why I started feeling this, but I will not be surprised one bit if Mario ends up being traded. There are a few teams that are way under the salary floor, and a good young pass rushing DE is always in demand.

I am excite to see what Mario can do at OLB, but I'm not very optimistic about the prospects. Just not feeling him at that position.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think he will be horrible. He has too much raw talent to completely suck, but the value he brings to the table is clearly greater at DE than OLB.

Allow me to indulge in a brief fantasy:
Trade Mario for a decent OLB or NT, plus draft pick(s). Use the cap space to pursue Nnambdi. Yeah, completely unrealistic, I know, but that would be awesome.

Dude I drop mario into coverage from time to time on Xbox live ..... seems to work for me lol!

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by Rey

In passing situations I don't think they will be in their base defense.

Passing situations you can put some freaky stuff out there. Mario, watts, reed and barwin would be a good four to send. Mix in a Cushing blitz to top it off.

Also, in regards to Mario I view him as a standing de. We are basically playing a 5-2 as a base defense. Of course you wouldn't be in that defense against a team like the colts.

But against a team like the ravens or Pittsburg it can be effective.

Initially I was worried about Mario at olb, but I heard wade describe his defense and what he wants to do and I'm not worried anymore.

Against the colts and teams that like to air it out I expect Mario to have his hand on the ground for much of the game.

But if a team wants to pound the ball it would seem that getting more bulk on the field would make that harder to do.

I don't expect Mario to be running with te's and backs. Sometimes he'll drop into a zone, but that's about it.

But yeah, in passing situations expect Mario to put his hand on the ground.


That's another reason I think Mitchell can play on the nose. He will basically have two d lineman on both sides of him in situations where a run is possible.

This won't be your typical 3-4 but I do believe it will be fun to watch.

First off, let me pat myself on the back because I was the first person on the board to say our base defense will basically be a 5-2 and I said it before the interview came out with Wade saying the same thing. Including the stuff about Mario being a hands up DE.

But my post wasn't saying what we ARE going to do, my post was saying what I'd feel more comfortable with from more of a standard 3-4 given our personnel AND which of our personnel I'd prefer to see out there. Basically, I'd feel more comfortable with Reed and Barwin coming off the edges with Mario as the DE that taking one of Reed/Barwin off the field and putting Antonio Smith on the field, instead.

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

First off, let me pat myself on the back because I was the first person on the board to say our base defense will basically be a 5-2 and I said it before the interview came out with Wade saying the same thing. Including the stuff about Mario being a hands up DE.

But my post wasn't saying what we ARE going to do, my post was saying what I'd feel more comfortable with from more of a standard 3-4 given our personnel AND which of our personnel I'd prefer to see out there. Basically, I'd feel more comfortable with Reed and Barwin coming off the edges with Mario as the DE that taking one of Reed/Barwin off the field and putting Antonio Smith on the field, instead.

Good Job. LOL

[leebigeztx]

Originally Posted by DocBar

Look dude, don't come poppin in here trying to confuse me with the facts. My mind is made up.

Originally Posted by Rey

In passing situations I don't think they will be in their base defense.

Passing situations you can put some freaky stuff out there. Mario, watts, reed and barwin would be a good four to send. Mix in a Cushing blitz to top it off.

Also, in regards to Mario I view him as a standing de. We are basically playing a 5-2 as a base defense. Of course you wouldn't be in that defense against a team like the colts.

But against a team like the ravens or Pittsburg it can be effective.

Initially I was worried about Mario at olb, but I heard wade describe his defense and what he wants to do and I'm not worried anymore.

Against the colts and teams that like to air it out I expect Mario to have his hand on the ground for much of the game.

But if a team wants to pound the ball it would seem that getting more bulk on the field would make that harder to do.

I don't expect Mario to be running with te's and backs. Sometimes he'll drop into a zone, but that's about it.

But yeah, in passing situations expect Mario to put his hand on the ground.


That's another reason I think Mitchell can play on the nose. He will basically have two d lineman on both sides of him in situations where a run is possible.

This won't be your typical 3-4 but I do believe it will be fun to watch.

Let's talk ball and situational football which is what this league is. 3rd&5, te,slot,and wr on marios side when he's standing up. In that situation, mario will have to play head up on the te. Not only is mario exposing more surface area because he's 6'7, he's going to have to protect his legs.

I really think that no matter what they're pretending to say, tbe team would be a lot with mario playing the 5 technique. Smith and anderson would be better options at olb than mario. Those guys fit the bill size wise to play olb. I guess u could use the guy who played opposite ware as an example, but that's a stretch.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by leebigeztx

Let's talk ball and situational football which is what this league is. 3rd&5, te,slot,and wr on marios side when he's standing up. In that situation, mario will have to play head up on the te. Not only is mario exposing more surface area because he's 6'7, he's going to have to protect his legs.

I really think that no matter what they're pretending to say, tbe team would be a lot with mario playing the 5 technique. Smith and anderson would be better options at olb than mario. Those guys fit the bill size wise to play olb. I guess u could use the guy who played opposite ware as an example, but that's a stretch.

I've heard both Wade & Herring say it doesn't matter what the offense does, we are going to rush who we want, when we want.

In this situation, that does not put Mario head to head with the tightend. Mario will widen out more, the line will slide to the TE, Watt moves inside the tackle, Cody will shade the strongside shoulder of the center, Antonio will line up outside the TE.

Mario is going for the QB when the ball is snapped.

I agree with Anderson as OLB, I agree with Mario as a 5-tech (but they're adamant about him being an OLB)..... I don't see Antonio as an OLB. IIRC, Mario dropped into coverage more than Antonio. Antonio was the guy they kicked inside on passing downs..... that says 3-4 DE to me. Maybe not 5 tech, but DE all the same.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

But my post wasn't saying what we ARE going to do, my post was saying what I'd feel more comfortable with from more of a standard 3-4 given our personnel AND which of our personnel I'd prefer to see out there. Basically, I'd feel more comfortable with Reed and Barwin coming off the edges with Mario as the DE that taking one of Reed/Barwin off the field and putting Antonio Smith on the field, instead.

I always see Mario as an edge rusher, even though it's very tempting to see him play 5-tech more.

I don't see how moving your best edge rusher inside can benefit the team more.
Now, if the other guys step it up, then it can be a different story.

It's possible that we will see him there some this year (as he had done in the past on a limited basis.)

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I've heard both Wade & Herring say it doesn't matter what the offense does, we are going to rush who we want, when we want.

In this situation, that does not put Mario head to head with the tightend. Mario will widen out more, the line will slide to the TE, Watt moves inside the tackle, Cody will shade the strongside shoulder of the center, Antonio will line up outside the TE.

Mario is going for the QB when the ball is snapped.

I agree with Anderson as OLB, I agree with Mario as a 5-tech (but they're adamant about him being an OLB)..... I don't see Antonio as an OLB. IIRC, Mario dropped into coverage more than Antonio. Antonio was the guy they kicked inside on passing downs..... that says 3-4 DE to me. Maybe not 5 tech, but DE all the same.

If Mario is to play WILL (mostly) as we've been hearing, he shouldn't see the TE hardly, now will he?

At any rate, I've seen Mario going against the TE as a 34 SOLB, and he did just fine.
It was the TE that had a hard time with him.
So I don't have any concern anyway.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Rey

In passing situations I don't think they will be in their base defense.

Passing situations you can put some freaky stuff out there. Mario, watts, reed and barwin would be a good four to send. Mix in a Cushing blitz to top it off.

Against the colts and teams that like to air it out I expect Mario to have his hand on the ground for much of the game.


But yeah, in passing situations expect Mario to put his hand on the ground.

Right!
We've talked about this before and TexanArlington also referred to it as he also watched a lot of Cowboys games.

In passing situation, the D will be in a nickel package wtih a 4-man front very often.
Mario (like Ware) plays 43 DE in this instance.
Against the Colts, we may not notice any difference from the year before as far as formation is concerned.
(However, that is not a shoe-in.)

Also, in prevent defense, we could see a 3-man front.
In this instance, Mario automatically looks just like a 34 DE.

[DocBar]

It's easy to sit back and say that we're gonna do what we want and dictate to the offense. We've been hearing that line for 10 yrs now. There's a reason that almost every offensive highlight reel I see on ESPN commercials has the Texans D getting burned.
I'm cautiously optimistic, but I want to see how the preseason games look before I start getting to hyped up.

[Ole Miss Texan]

Man, I sure hope Mario was studying some of Ware's game film this offseason. Not just how he rushes the passer but how he uses his hands. I'd be perfectly happy if Mario gets 10-12 sacks a season (vs. 15+) if he can swat the ball out of QBs hands like Ware does. Causing 5 or 6 fumbles a year that way can be just as valuable, if not more, than sacks.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

First off, let me pat myself on the back because I was the first person on the board to say our base defense will basically be a 5-2 and I said it before the interview came out with Wade saying the same thing. Including the stuff about Mario being a hands up DE.

But my post wasn't saying what we ARE going to do, my post was saying what I'd feel more comfortable with from more of a standard 3-4 given our personnel AND which of our personnel I'd prefer to see out there. Basically, I'd feel more comfortable with Reed and Barwin coming off the edges with Mario as the DE that taking one of Reed/Barwin off the field and putting Antonio Smith on the field, instead.

Ok.

I think Mario being in the olb position with smith and watts on the line is a better run formation.

If an offense has two wr, a fb, a rb and a te, then I think we'd be safe in our base defense.

If a team removes a te, or fb (or both) and puts in a wr then i think we will switch out if that base defense. That's all I'm saying.

[leebigeztx]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

I always see Mario as an edge rusher, even though it's very tempting to see him play 5-tech more.

I don't see how moving your best edge rusher inside can benefit the team more.
Now, if the other guys step it up, then it can be a different story.

It's possible that we will see him there some this year (as he had done in the past on a limited basis.)

Mario is not an edge rusher, he's a power/bull rusher which is perfect for a 5 tech. When wade slants the front, mario can bull rush the guard inside and get under his pads. When they played the 3-4 with bruce smith, this happen a lot. Smith didn't beat a lot of guys running the edge like freeney, he mostly came across the guards face.

You know why steelers 3-4 has been great through the years? The nt and the 2 olbs. Look at the anatomy of their 3-4 and you will see the same thing? 330 lbs nt and 2 6-3 250lbs ols. This is why it works and they have been top 5 for 20 yrs or so vs wade and his system that has been inconsistent most times. This is the same reason why the texans will be the same defensively. If mario is coming 90% of the time or 95%, then the true effectiveness of the 3-4 is lost. If you watch the steelers, whether it was green and lloyd, porter and haggans, or harrison and woodley, those guys were 50/50 on who was coming. When wade had his best defense in dallas, ellis was opposite and james was coming up the middle. The true uniqueness of the 3-4 is the unpredictale nature of who is coming. There are always 4 guys, but which 4 is the key. The texans version will be the same 4 most of the time which excludes the unpredictable nature the defense is dsigned for. I never said it wouldn't work, but from the anatomy of building a 3-4, I'm looking at the stelers.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by leebigeztx

Let's talk ball and situational football which is what this league is. 3rd&5, te,slot,and wr on marios side when he's standing up. In that situation, mario will have to play head up on the te. Not only is mario exposing more surface area because he's 6'7, he's going to have to protect his legs.

I really think that no matter what they're pretending to say, tbe team would be a lot with mario playing the 5 technique. Smith and anderson would be better options at olb than mario. Those guys fit the bill size wise to play olb. I guess u could use the guy who played opposite ware as an example, but that's a stretch.

Maybe in not understanding your formation or maybe it doesn't make sense, but I think Mario is going to be the weakside olb.

How many receivers total are on the field in your scenario? There would have to at least be one more on the other side of the field.

If that's the case I expect them to come out of their base 34 and bring another corner on the field.

I don't see him being in a situation like that where we are in a base defense with 3 wr's on the field.

But if we are, the other olb will be the one that will have to respond because Mario will likely be rushing anyways.

I'm not exactly sure I understand your concerns.

And I think they could play it either way. Mario at the 5 or Mario standing up.

But I see what they are doing with having him standing up. basically they are going to force teams to throw and dare them to run. I just dont see many teams being able to run at Mario. By him standing up on the outside he will automatically be outflanking the offensive tackle.

Marios biggest hurdle might actually be just that. He will need to learn how to not leave himself vulnerable to fb's diving at his knees.

But I don't share the concerns about Mario at olb.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by leebigeztx

Mario is not an edge rusher, he's a power/bull rusher which is perfect for a 5 tech. When wade slants the front, mario can bull rush the guard inside and get under his pads. When they played the 3-4 with bruce smith, this happen a lot. Smith didn't beat a lot of guys running the edge like freeney, he mostly came across the guards face.

You know why steelers 3-4 has been great through the years? The nt and the 2 olbs. Look at the anatomy of their 3-4 and you will see the same thing? 330 lbs nt and 2 6-3 250lbs ols. This is why it works and they have been top 5 for 20 yrs or so vs wade and his system that has been inconsistent most times. This is the same reason why the texans will be the same defensively. If mario is coming 90% of the time or 95%, then the true effectiveness of the 3-4 is lost. If you watch the steelers, whether it was green and lloyd, porter and haggans, or harrison and woodley, those guys were 50/50 on who was coming. When wade had his best defense in dallas, ellis was opposite and james was coming up the middle. The true uniqueness of the 3-4 is the unpredictale nature of who is coming. There are always 4 guys, but which 4 is the key. The texans version will be the same 4 most of the time which excludes the unpredictable nature the defense is dsigned for. I never said it wouldn't work, but from the anatomy of building a 3-4, I'm looking at the stelers.

We aren't running the steelers 34.

And Mario is an edge rusher all day. He may not have that extremely quick burst that you see from a freeney or even mark Anderson, but Mario is an edge rusher.

He can rush from the inside but he is better outside where an og can't provide help and get under his pads.

Good interior rushers normally have a very low pad level which keeps interior o linemen from sticking a hand out and slowing them down. By Mario being 6'6" it wouldn't be hard for a strong 6'3 guard with a good knee bend to slow him down.

Limited space to work in and already at a leverage disadvantage. Not a good formula.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Rey

We aren't running the steelers 34.

And Mario is an edge rusher all day. He may not have that extremely quick burst that you see from a freeney or even mark Anderson, but Mario is an edge rusher.

He can rush from the inside but he is better outside where an og can't provide help and get under his pads.

Good interior rushers normally have a very low pad level which keeps interior o linemen from sticking a hand out and slowing them down. By Mario being 6'6" it wouldn't be hard for a strong 6'3 guard with a good knee bend to slow him down.

Limited space to work in and already at a leverage disadvantage. Not a good formula.

I agree!

Also, I based this on watching the Cowboys played.
Ware spent a lot of times rushing upfield; that didn't diminish their pass rush.

I understand that the unpredictability isn't the same, but you play with the hand you got. You let your best rusher rush the QB.

Don't forget there's also the stunt that will let Mario rush the inside intead of coming off the edge.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Ole Miss Texan

Man, I sure hope Mario was studying some of Ware's game film this offseason. Not just how he rushes the passer but how he uses his hands. I'd be perfectly happy if Mario gets 10-12 sacks a season (vs. 15+) if he can swat the ball out of QBs hands like Ware does. Causing 5 or 6 fumbles a year that way can be just as valuable, if not more, than sacks.

Those count as sacks don't they?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by leebigeztx

The texans version will be the same 4 most of the time which excludes the unpredictable nature the defense is dsigned for. I never said it wouldn't work, but from the anatomy of building a 3-4, I'm looking at the stelers.

You make some good points. But in San Diego, it was the same as in Dallas, Sean Merriman came everytime.

In Green BAy.... Clay Matthews is going to be coming every time. Heck, in passing situations, they took the NT off the field & added a DB.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

I agree!

Also, I based this on watching the Cowboys played.
Ware spent a lot of times rushing upfield; that didn't diminish their pass rush.

I understand that the unpredictability isn't the same, but you play with the hand you got. You let your best rusher rush the QB.

Don't forget there's also the stunt that will let Mario rush the inside intead of coming off the edge.

I don't think it's as much diminishing their pass rush as it is diminishing Mario's potential. He's got it all, power, speed & quickness. Now he'll be using his power to blow up TE's & RBs...... but once he gets going he doesn't switch to power mode.... or at least he hasn't.

When he's on the line, running stunts, just like leebigtx said, he can use that power to bull rush guards & tackles...

but he hasn't been using that bull rush the last two years anyway...

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I don't think it's as much diminishing their pass rush as it is diminishing Mario's potential. He's got it all, power, speed & quickness. Now he'll be using his power to blow up TE's & RBs...... but once he gets going he doesn't switch to power mode.... or at least he hasn't.

When he's on the line, running stunts, just like leebigtx said, he can use that power to bull rush guards & tackles...

but he hasn't been using that bull rush the last two years anyway...

Wait a minute.
Leebig says he's a bull rusher.
You says he hasn't been using the bull rush!
What gives?

I saw he did all: come off the edge, bull rush over or inside the tackle, and occasionally stunt inside the guard.