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Old 07-30-2011   #101
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Default Re: Projected starters on defense...

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Originally Posted by EllisUnit View Post
He is saying that more times than not a players first season is a good picture of what you will get out of the player seasons after his rookie year. Dont get me wrong some guys suck and come back and become Hall Of Famers, But more times than not they arent in the NFL 3-5 years later. Even First Rounders.
76Texan has two threads with plenty of visual evidence showing that Kareem was bad, but not as bad as the fans think he is. The piss poor defense (that he was a part of) helped him look worse than he actually was.

He's solid in zone recognition.

He's solid shedding blocks.

He's solid in tackling.

He is fast enough, tall enough, and strong enough.

If he had half the help he should have, his season would have been mediocre, understandable, not bad considering.

If our intentions were to make him a number 1 CB I would still be worried. But as a possible #2, I'm not worried.
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Old 07-30-2011   #102
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Default Re: Projected starters on defense...

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Exactly, if Wade can get us a top 15 defense, and the O continues as it has, that will equal playoffs for sure.
So all u want is to make the playoffs? If u give wade avg talent, u will get avg results. In the last 4 yrs, his defense in dallas have given up 22,20,15,and 27ppg. So say he get the txans to 20ppg and the offense is at 24 like last yr, is that a threat to do anything seriously?
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Old 07-30-2011   #103
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Default Re: Projected starters on defense...

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Babin has turned out to be a pretty decent player, just not with us.
Babin had one good year after 7 not so good years.

What are the odds that he's all of a sudden elite?

What are the odds that he found away around the random drug tests?

All I'm saying, is lets see how he does in 2011 before we close the book on Jason Babin.
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Old 07-30-2011   #104
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Default Re: Projected starters on defense...

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I don't remember seeing Revis his rookie year, or what stats you're referring to, but I highly doubt he was anywhere near as bad as Jackson was last year.
He's an undersized DE. All he's got is speed. He's not freaky athletic, not exceptionally strong for his size, doesn't have any patented signature moves.....

What, he all of a sudden got faster in his 8th season?

Happens all the time.
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Old 07-30-2011   #105
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Default Re: Projected starters on defense...

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Talking about all this makes it even more mystifying to me that last year's front office and coaching staff thought the team could make the playoffs with a rookie corner, an unproven second year corner, and a journeyman free safety coming off injury. In theory, there should have been no less FA urgency last offseason as this one.
Their mistake was not thinking that we would make it with young corners.

Their mistake was not allowing the players do what they know how to do.

All our players, including our defensive secondary are down hill players. They play facing the QB, & they are all waiting for him to make a mistake. That's how they were selected. Zone Corners, excelling in stopping the run. Undersized, fast, instinctive LBs (with the exception of Cushing, he's the only LB we drafted with such a physical presence). Small penetrating defensive linemen.

In 2009, the coaches finally stopped worrying about all the stuff that could go wrong & let them play an aggressive, dictating defense.

Brian Cushing was supposed to miss the first 4 games. We were starting a rookie as our #1 corner back. We started to play the season trying to cover up these weaknesses. We played Peyton, McNabb, & Romo in our first 4 weeks.

Then we lost Demeco.

Instead of getting back to what made them successful in 2009, they kept trying to perfect a style of defense they didn't have the people for.
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Old 07-30-2011   #106
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Default Re: Projected starters on defense...

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In 2009, with the same DTs, Demeco & Cushing did a hella good job shutting down the run, slipping OGs & Centers....

We had the same complaints about our svelt DTs... didn't stop us from fielding one of our best defenses ever. With Frank Bush pulling the strings.

All I'm saying, is maybe, just maybe, Wade Phillips knows WTF he's doing.
Yeh but now Meco has one less DT in front of him and hes coming off a major injury. All Im saying is its been proven over and ovcer again that having a big guy in the middle to tie up centers and guards would do nothing but help our LB's be that much better.
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Old 07-30-2011   #107
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Default Re: Projected starters on defense...

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So all u want is to make the playoffs? If u give wade avg talent, u will get avg results. In the last 4 yrs, his defense in dallas have given up 22,20,15,and 27ppg. So say he get the txans to 20ppg and the offense is at 24 like last yr, is that a threat to do anything seriously?
You know our secondary was so bad last year that people are forgetting that we weren't exactly good at stopping the run or getting pressure on the QB either. Its going to take more than getting 2 FA's in the secondary, adding a rookie and changing the scheme to make this defense good enough to take us to the Super-bowl. Of course some here would just be happy with making the playoffs. I guess 10 years of getting sand kicked in you're face will do that to some.
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Old 07-30-2011   #108
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Default Re: Projected starters on defense...

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You know our secondary was so bad last year that people are forgetting that we weren't exactly good at stopping the run or getting pressure on the QB either. Its going to take more than getting 2 FA's in the secondary, adding a rookie and changing the scheme to make this defense good enough to take us to the Super-bowl. Of course some here would just be happy with making the playoffs. I guess 10 years of getting sand kicked in you're face will do that to some.
10 years? What are you talking about? I was an Oiler fan before I was a Texan fan. 49 years of getting sand kicked in your face and your teams not winning any championships in your living memory lets you realize that you need to make the playoffs before you can make the Super Bowl.
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Old 07-30-2011   #109
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Default Re: Projected starters on defense...

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You know our secondary was so bad last year that people are forgetting that we weren't exactly good at stopping the run or getting pressure on the QB either. Its going to take more than getting 2 FA's in the secondary, adding a rookie and changing the scheme to make this defense good enough to take us to the Super-bowl. Of course some here would just be happy with making the playoffs. I guess 10 years of getting sand kicked in you're face will do that to some.
Although you got a point, I will still try to argue with you here a litte:

We also were bad against the run, because we had to give the secondary all the help we could get. We were bad at getting at the QB because he could get rid of the ball within 2-3 seconds. That all should improve with our new guys.

And don`t forget, Watt, Reed and Barwin should improve us against the QB - Watt and Ryans against the run.

And yes - me, Id be perfectly happy with just making the playoffs. Get that out of the way this season, and let`s attack the SB next season.
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Old 07-30-2011   #110
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Default Re: Projected starters on defense...

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Yeh but now Meco has one less DT in front of him and hes coming off a major injury. All Im saying is its been proven over and ovcer again that having a big guy in the middle to tie up centers and guards would do nothing but help our LB's be that much better.
Even though we're calling him a DE right now, the weakside DE is playing just like a 4-3 DT. He'll have the same two guys in front of him as he's always had (with the exception of Watt)

If the injury is the problem, let's address the injury. Doesn't make sense to fix the DL because you have an injured LB.

Back in 2009, it was still Demeco, Cushing, & Diles making tackles in the back field.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. It's more about execution than philosophy. This is the philosophy Wade has chosen to go with, get on board.
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Old 07-30-2011   #111
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Default Re: Projected starters on defense...

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You know our secondary was so bad last year that people are forgetting that we weren't exactly good at stopping the run or getting pressure on the QB either. Its going to take more than getting 2 FA's in the secondary, adding a rookie and changing the scheme to make this defense good enough to take us to the Super-bowl. Of course some here would just be happy with making the playoffs. I guess 10 years of getting sand kicked in you're face will do that to some.
Well, we can only hope to one day become a fan of your stature.


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Old 07-30-2011   #112
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Default Re: Projected starters on defense...

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The only problem I see with that lineup is Earl Mitchell at NT, 291 lbs. is awfully light for a NT and makes us weak in the middle and susceptible to the run. I'm thinking Shawn Cody starts at NT or we go after a NT in FA.
This. I think Cody starts at NT, with Earl being a pass rush type guy. The one thing about having a smallish nose is we have a pretty big front other than that. With Mario (290ish) and Reed/Barwin (260+) and Cushing at MLB(265) that's a big LB group that can help shore up the front 7. Also, ability means a little more than size, IMO. Football ability goes farther than just being a fat guy.
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Old 07-30-2011   #113
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Well, we can only hope to one day become a fan of your stature.


Not sure what you mean by this. ??????
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Old 07-30-2011   #114
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Default Re: Projected starters on defense...

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Not sure what you mean by this. ??????
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I guess 10 years of getting sand kicked in you're face will do that to some.
I just felt this was a little condescending. Some of us aren't up to your standard.
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Old 07-30-2011   #115
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I just felt this was a little condescending. Some of us aren't up to your standard.
Don't know how you came to that conclusion. Every year of our existence has been like getting sand kicked in OUR ( I'm a texan fan too) faces. Im tired of this team getting bullied and crushing our hopes every year only to do just enough to gain attention back and have it all happen again.
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Old 07-30-2011   #116
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Default Re: Projected starters on defense...

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So imagine you are Wade Phillips. What do you do?

If you decided to stay with what you got, what would lead you to think that. Remember, you've had very little contact with your players, and everything you know now, you knew before the Draft & FA.
not sure what you're asking me to decide
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Old 07-30-2011   #117
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not sure what you're asking me to decide
Well, you agree we've got ILB questions right? If nothing else we've got an issue with depth. Diles is gone, Bentley doesn't show up on our roster (& honestly, if he did I'd want him off).

I'd want to bring some ILB into camp, look at a bunch of them and try to find a diamond if not a true stop-gap.

But we haven't done anything (that I know of) to address that Demeco's & Brian's best may not be good enough.

How good do you feel about Sharpton? Adibi? Keglar?

I scurred.
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Old 07-30-2011   #118
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Default Re: Projected starters on defense...

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Well, you agree we've got ILB questions right? If nothing else we've got an issue with depth. Diles is gone, Bentley doesn't show up on our roster (& honestly, if he did I'd want him off).

I'd want to bring some ILB into camp, look at a bunch of them and try to find a diamond if not a true stop-gap.

But we haven't done anything (that I know of) to address that Demeco's & Brian's best may not be good enough.

How good do you feel about Sharpton? Adibi? Keglar?

I scurred.
I'm worried about ILB, but it's mainly because of Ryan's injury and depth. Keglar did ok last season. So did Sharpton. I would add 1 or 2 FA's as depth and put Ryans on PUP til week 6.
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Old 07-30-2011   #119
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I'm worried about ILB, but it's mainly because of Ryan's injury and depth. Keglar did ok last season. So did Sharpton. I would add 1 or 2 FA's as depth and put Ryans on PUP til week 6.
You don't want to see how he looks first?
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Old 07-30-2011   #120
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Default Re: Projected starters on defense...

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You don't want to see how he looks first?
I do, but there's a lot riding on the season.

I'd have made a run a Pulshoweveryouspellhisnamesky.

I wouldn't put Demeco on the PUP until I had to, but I would have a better plan B in place before going into camp.
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