Projected starters on defense...

[MEGA SWATT]

looks really good. I can't wait for the season to start

[bo orlando]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

EU, you must realize that boorlando is telling you that Jason Allen shouldn't even be on the roster.

He's saying that we have a major hole at #2, which is Jackson.
Therfore, Jason Allen must be worse than terrible.

Both of you agreed that a player who showed up bad early, most likely ends up bad.
Allen was a higher draft pick, and he can't hardly get on the playing field the first year.
But when he did, boy, did he tear it up.
The Dolphins went 1-15 and gave up 437 points; yeah I know what you two mean, historically bad!

And then when they put him on the bench the next year, they rebounded to 11-5.

Boy, the Texans certainly have a huge hole at #3, don't they?

Talking about all this makes it even more mystifying to me that last year's front office and coaching staff thought the team could make the playoffs with a rookie corner, an unproven second year corner, and a journeyman free safety coming off injury. In theory, there should have been no less FA urgency last offseason as this one.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by bo orlando

Talking about all this makes it even more mystifying to me that last year's front office and coaching staff thought the team could make the playoffs with a rookie corner, an unproven second year corner, and a journeyman free safety coming off injury. In theory, there should have been no less FA urgency last offseason as this one.

The last three years, all I concentrated on was the secondary during the off-season (even during the season.) If only you were here during those times!

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by bo orlando

Talking about all this makes it even more mystifying to me that last year's front office and coaching staff thought the team could make the playoffs with a rookie corner, an unproven second year corner, and a journeyman free safety coming off injury. In theory, there should have been no less FA urgency last offseason as this one.

There was plenty of concern here. Unfortunately Mr. McNair doesn't consult us very often.

[leebigeztx]

To me, why not ge another real safety, a real nt,and a real 2nd wr? I mean, let's start at safety. Quinn might can play safety, but hough and whitner are true safeties. Its one thing to say quinn can play because he's not that good of a corner, but he's a young guy that will have to get used to seeing things develop in front of him. That's bigger than what the average football fan thinks. The teaser routes and layered routes laid down in front of him is really challenging. One false step and it could be a big play for the offense.

At nose, they have a smallish guy in mitchell and a try hard guy in cody. Now I know and watched ratliff and he had a couple of good years, but I also saw him get washed out against baltimore on the 2 long runs and in the playoffs against seattle. If we look at the best 3-4 teams, look at their nt's. Ngata,hampton, raji,wilfolk,and when wade was in sd, he had williams. All of those guys are 330 or better and immovable objects. With guys like franklin, gregge and even williams still out there, why not get a fr sure thing vs hoping a guy can do it.

Lastly, 2nd wr. I know the idea the offense isn't the problem, but at times the offense is the problem. The texans have struggled when teams have rolled to andre and had enough to stop the run game. When that happens, the texans don't have a wr who can whip the 2nd cb and take the coverage off andre. Edwards or moss can do that. Edwards may be too rich for the blood, but moss opposite of andre would be downright scary. No matter what people say, teams still account for randy with a man and a half. This unrolls the covrage off andre and the running game. It opens alleys for daniels also. 3wr set with moss,jones,johnson would put teams in a pickle defensively.

I like what they have done, but they should close the holes to make a superbowl run vs just trying to make a playoff run imo.

[Rey]

You can't go out and sign all those people.

Mario and foster have contracts that will need to be dealt with next year.

You have to be able to rely on guys that are already here and who ever you draft next year.

[leebigeztx]

Originally Posted by Rey

You can't go out and sign all those people.

Mario and foster have contracts that will need to be dealt with next year.

You have to be able to rely on guys that are already here and who ever you draft next year.

When mario re-do his deal, it will open cap space and don't tell me what u can't do, tell me what u can do. Some of those guys will be cheap and the market is falling for some. The cheifs just signed gregg so he's off the market. Moss will cost about 5m per yr, franklin about 6 per yr. Hough or whitner will be at about 5 also. If the were clearing money for nmandi, then they can do the same to close up holes. They have holes, big holes.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by leebigeztx

When mario re-do his deal, it will open cap space and don't tell me what u can't do, tell me what u can do. Some of those guys will be cheap and the market is falling for some. The cheifs just signed gregg so he's off the market. Moss will cost about 5m per yr, franklin about 6 per yr. Hough or whitner will be at about 5 also. If the were clearing money for nmandi, then they can do the same to close up holes. They have holes, big holes.

Ok.

I'm just telling you why I think they can't go out and sign up a whole bunch of people.

We have yet to sign our own draft picks.

And Mario and foster could get cap friendly deals next year, but they will both cost some money if they perform at a high level like expected.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by hradhak

My only concern is Quin at the FS position. I know he was decent as a corner opposite Dunta, but FS is a little different and it's knowing where to be instead of who to cover in some sense.

I think he's got the physical gift, it's just going to be interesting to see if he has the instincts.

Quin is a baller. You've seen him play for 2 years & you have questions about his insticts? Kids got excellent instincts.

IMO, he is a guy you have to keep on the field because of those instincts, but you're not a world class team with him as a starting CB.

He's a smart football player with the skills to play tough-nosed corner.. lacking slightly in talent... He should make an excellent FS.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

If Ryans and Barwin can stay healthy,

Mitchell can play the nose at a decent level.

The DE's stay healthy. However if all of this comes together the Texans will be in the playoffs. Remember though the Texans finished 15th on defense in 2009, Schaub threw for 4800 yds and the Texans still didn't make the playoffs.

But it's a great day to be a Texans fan. BoB finally decided he wanted to sit at the big boys table.

If something were to happen to Watt or Antonio, I wonder what their back-up plan is.

I hope it is to drop Mario to DE and move Reed or Anderson up to a starting spot.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by TimeKiller

Check my sig.

We've got some answers at least instead of some....."well this SHOULD work/be ok" kind of set up.

Pass rush oughtta be sick. Sending 4 plain jane or all 7 coming hot, I believe they've got the guys to get to anyone. Speed to the edges too, any decent running attempts will be up the middle where hopefully Demeco will be janitor deluxe cleaning that **** up! There is a weakness up the middle but with the improved front 7 and my goodness, what seems on paper to be a REAL NFL secondary? There shouldn't be a whole helluva lot of time to throw. We may see a team or two break the D and run it all over them but honestly, I'm excited to see what this D can do because it sounds an awful lot like raising hell. And I'm a man who enjoys hell raising.

I watched the Eagles game again a few days ago. On one scoring drive, the Eagles went 60 yards in 6 plays. One play was a 39 yard screen to Leshaun McCoy. The other was a 3rd & 19 yard pick-up to their tight-end, with Brian Cushing (a true SAM) covering him.

LeShaun McCoy was their leading receiver, followed by DeShaun Jackson. They killed us with screens and running free across the middle of the field.

I'm just saying.

[Jackie Chiles]

Originally Posted by leebigeztx

When mario re-do his deal, it will open cap space and don't tell me what u can't do, tell me what u can do. Some of those guys will be cheap and the market is falling for some. The cheifs just signed gregg so he's off the market. Moss will cost about 5m per yr, franklin about 6 per yr. Hough or whitner will be at about 5 also. If the were clearing money for nmandi, then they can do the same to close up holes. They have holes, big holes.

Hes getting to be an old man and I believe he has a 4 game suspension coming his way but I would love to see us grab Pat Williams on a cheap 1 year contract. He can still anchor and be a two-down/rotational NT.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by mussop

Not saying he's a runt but at 248 lbs he doesn't need to be taking on OG's. Thats what is going to be happening on most running plays if Mitchell is our starting DT. If we trade Antonio who do you start in his place?

In 2009, with the same DTs, Demeco & Cushing did a hella good job shutting down the run, slipping OGs & Centers....

We had the same complaints about our svelt DTs... didn't stop us from fielding one of our best defenses ever. With Frank Bush pulling the strings.

All I'm saying, is maybe, just maybe, Wade Phillips knows WTF he's doing.

[IDEXAN]

That's still a very young defense with all projected starters under 30 years of age.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by bo orlando

It's pretty poor logic to suggest that Player X may have been terrible his first year but Good Player Y wasn't that great either, so Player X will still be good. That's like saying that some random practice squad running back will become an all-pro because Arian Foster did it. I'm sure if you look at a list of first year corners who played at historically bad levels, most probably never even rose to the level of mediocrity. That's not saying Jackson can't turn it around, especially with different coaches, but it's foolish not to think the most probable result will be continued bad play and/or lost job.

Does anyone remember what DRC looked like as a rookie? He was thrown in as a starter pretty early in his career as well (11 games). I wouldn't say he sucked, but he did look bad... actually, he looked like a rookie starting too early in his career.

Probably didn't get too much press about it, because
1) everybody knew he was a rookie
2) most people understand CB is one of the hardest positions to learn
3) the Cardinals had a pretty good defense back then they had another decent corner & a great safety.

Now he is regarded as one of the better corners in this league.

But you're right, just because Aso got better as an NFL corner doesn't mean that Kareem Jackson would.

But watching Kareem, he's gotten better & better as the year went on. As expected.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by LikeMike

The only thing that bugs me is, that the Eagles got Aso relatively cheap (12 million per year) while we got JJ a little over his market value (almost 10 million a year) - the difference is too small to be absolutely thrilled.

What is the going rate for a starting CB in this league?

We paid Dunta Robinson almost $10M when we franchised him two years back. That is the average salary of the 5 highest paid CBs in the league.

Question... is Johnathan Joseph a top 5 cornerback in this league?
-maybe not

Dunta got $9.75M last year. I think Joseph is better than Dunta.

I wonder what Ike Taylor got. I would imagine less, but not by much.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by ObsiWan

I share the same set of worries you have about our LBs. Two of the four are damaged - three if you think Cushing won't be the same while not on the sauce. Big question mark regarding what level they'll be able to play at. I love him to death mind you but Ryans wasn't superb in coverage pre-achilles injury. Who knows how that will affect his ability to keep up with the Dallas Clark types.

I don't believe that Brooks will be affected by us changing defenses; since he's just starting out, he doesn't have anything to UN-learn from last year's defensive... thing (can't call it a scheme since that assumes some sort of thought process).

So imagine you are Wade Phillips. What do you do?

If you decided to stay with what you got, what would lead you to think that. Remember, you've had very little contact with your players, and everything you know now, you knew before the Draft & FA.

[LikeMike]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

What is the going rate for a starting CB in this league?

We paid Dunta Robinson almost $10M when we franchised him two years back. That is the average salary of the 5 highest paid CBs in the league.

Question... is Johnathan Joseph a top 5 cornerback in this league?
-maybe not

Dunta got $9.75M last year. I think Joseph is better than Dunta.

I wonder what Ike Taylor got. I would imagine less, but not by much.

No question, Dunta is way overpaid... A couple of weeks ago Joseph`s agent stated, that he is looking for around 8 million per year, that`s what I based my slightly above market value on.

But don`t get me wrong - I´m thrilled that we got him. Id say he is a top10 cornerback in the league, but he will make our secondary way better, by pushing every other corner 1 spot back. Add to that some safety help for a change, heck we might even have someone on the team by now that can cover a TE... We won`t be a top10 defense next year - but a top15 defense and a top5-10 offense should cause some damage next year.

[TexCanada]

Originally Posted by LikeMike

No question, Dunta is way overpaid... A couple of weeks ago Joseph`s agent stated, that he is looking for around 8 million per year, that`s what I based my slightly above market value on.

But don`t get me wrong - I´m thrilled that we got him. Id say he is a top10 cornerback in the league, but he will make our secondary way better, by pushing every other corner 1 spot back. Add to that some safety help for a change, heck we might even have someone on the team by now that can cover a TE... We won`t be a top10 defense next year - but a top15 defense and a top5-10 offense should cause some damage next year.

Exactly, if Wade can get us a top 15 defense, and the O continues as it has, that will equal playoffs for sure.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by EllisUnit

Yes BUT you dont go into the season depending on that player. Not even as a #2 CB. You work him at Nickle so he can gain experience but isnt always depended on to hold his man.

He'll compete with Allen & Harris for the #2 CB spot.

If he starts as our #2, it would be because he earned it.