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Old 07-26-2011   #161
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Default Re: Nnambi and Houston

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
I am not predicting Nnamdi will not take a Revis type deal. It is just an unknown. This is going to be his last contract most likely. Is he willing to take a pay cut to just over Revis money at about $12 mil per year for a longer term or will he want a pay raise and take a shorter contract? We just don't know.
You are correct we do not know. However we do know that teams love to use other contracts that players of a similar caliber and position during negotiations, so the Revis contract, I do know, will be brought up at least once to Nnamdi during any negotiations he has with probably any team.
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Old 07-26-2011   #162
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Default Re: Nnambi and Houston

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How did Peppers work out for Chicago? What about Samuel to the Eagles? Antonio Smith has been pretty good here (not on the same level as the previous two but it does hit close to home).

Not every big FA signing is a huge failure you goon and you know this dale.

C'mon man.
Peppers is a much better example of what a Nnamdi signing would bring than Haynesworth, no doubt about it.
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Old 07-26-2011   #163
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Default Re: Nnambi and Houston

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
Sure I understand it. I also understand that you have a wildly optimistic view of this group of free agent CB's. This is in keeping with your traditionally overly optimistic outlook on things like this. The 10th best CB this year isn't better than Bodden (it's embarrassing for you to even suggest it) and will be signed for less money because he's worth less money. Don't let reality get in the way of a good tale though. Trot out your list of better values and be happy with that if you like. I can't agree with you though.

Many good to great players will be available. That means of course that the Texans will have an almost unobstructed shot at getting as many ordinary-to-good players as they want! Doesn't the thought just make your skin tingle all over!

What CBs on this list are worse than Bodden?:
Asomugha
Joseph
Grimes
Brandon Carr
Ike Taylor
Carlos Rogers
Antonio Cromartie
Eric Wright
Kelly Jennings
Josh Wilson
Richard Marshall
Chris Carr
Drayton Florence
Chris Houston....

If you can eliminate 5 from this list, then that would put Bodden at #10... I'm not here to disparage Bodden... but, there are definitely 10 from this list that I'd prefer. And, I doubt I'm alone.

Regarding my "optimism". I was not optimistic about last year's FA list of CBs. I thought it was a lousy list last year. I thought last year's FA group, in general, was pathetic and I said so. It's quite a leap to suggest that because I entered the last few Texans' seasons with hope and optimism, that means that I will overrate the NFL free agent list of CBs... Doesn't make sense! If anything, seeing the Texans with rose-colored glasses would give me a more cynical view of non-Texan players. How does my "negative opinion" on signing Nnambi mesh with my unreasonable optimism? There are multiple reports that the Texans are going to sign him (we wrote two stories in February predicting this) and I am absolutely opposed to it.
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Old 07-26-2011   #164
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Default Re: Nnambi and Houston

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Exactly!

All these people that say "we absolutely must sign NambDi" will be the very first ones out of the block that will say we overpaid him if we did.

I hope they do sign him. I want to hear the uproar from everyone when they hear what it would take to do it.
I'd just like to point out that he walked away from the Raiders $17 million. We honestly don't know if the Raiders could have kept him at any price. His value is high of course but until he starts fielding offers from other teams nobody can say for certain what he's going to cost. He might sign with the Packers, Patriots, or Steelers for significantly less than what the Raiders offered. He may cost that or more if the team in question is the Texans. What does he even think of the Texans? Does he see them as a team that's on the rise? Does he say all the right things and laugh inside when someone asks him about Houston?
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Old 07-26-2011   #165
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Default Re: Nnambi and Houston

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Nnnnnbambi? I is confuzzed
Nnnnnbambi pambi
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Old 07-26-2011   #166
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Default Re: Nnambi and Houston

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
I'd just like to point out that he walked away from the Raiders $17 million. We honestly don't know if the Raiders could have kept him at any price. His value is high of course but until he starts fielding offers from other teams nobody can say for certain what he's going to cost. He might sign with the Packers, Patriots, or Steelers for significantly less than what the Raiders offered. He may cost that or more if the team in question is the Texans. What does he even think of the Texans? Does he see them as a team that's on the rise? Does he say all the right things and laugh inside when someone asks him about Houston?
He didn't walk away from anything. The clause in his contract went in effect automatically when he didn't reach the incentive.
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Old 07-26-2011   #167
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Default Re: Nnambi and Houston

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
How did Peppers work out for Chicago? What about Samuel to the Eagles? Antonio Smith has been pretty good here (not on the same level as the previous two but it does hit close to home).

Not every big FA signing is a huge failure you goon and you know this dale.

C'mon man.
Samuel's deal was pretty big, but not a monster deal. I would love for the Texans to spend a similar amount on a CB this year.

Antonio Smith's deal included only about $10 million guaranteed. Deals like the one the Texans gave Antonio are exactly the kind of deals I want the Texans to make.

The Peppers deal is a fair example- It seems a little early to judge the deal. He certainly played well last season and they did reach the playoffs... so, I think that's your best example right now.
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Old 07-26-2011   #168
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Default Re: Nnambi and Houston

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Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
Exactly!

All these people that say "we absolutely must sign NambDi" will be the very first ones out of the block that will say we overpaid him if we did.

I hope they do sign him. I want to hear the uproar from everyone when they hear what it would take to do it.
Cak and Dale are spot on in this topic. If you ask me whether I want Aso, or Eric Weddle and one of the other corners out there, I'll take the latter in a heart beat. This defense has far too many holes in the backfield to assume that one player is going to turn us into Peyton Manning's worst nightmare. Dale also nailed it rock solid with his post on page two about how outbidding the entire NFL for a single player can really set your franchise back if they fail to live up to their pay, which is more often the case than not.

I, too, agree with Cak and draw the line around the $17 million range. At some point, any sensible person says "this is too much money."
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Old 07-26-2011   #169
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Default Re: Nnambi and Houston

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
How did Peppers work out for Chicago? What about Samuel to the Eagles? Antonio Smith has been pretty good here (not on the same level as the previous two but it does hit close to home).

Not every big FA signing is a huge failure you goon and you know this dale.

C'mon man.
Reggie White, as well, did pretty good when he went to the Packers.

At that time, everybody thought he was crazy for leaving the Eagles and going to the Packers. Whoops.

As has been pointed out, this is probably the last contract for Aso. So why not be the one who gives it to him. Get at least 4 years out of the guy. He has virtually ZERO tread on the tires--He's not a DL or a LB who has had punishment dished out onto him. He's basically ran down the field and watched the plays happen 30 yards or more away from him.

I think Aso becomes a member of the Ravens, though. Which, IMO, makes the Ravens the best AFC team immediately. That defense would be elite overnight. It was already pretty stout. This would make them superior.
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Old 07-26-2011   #170
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Default Re: Nnambi and Houston

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
That's clearly not true. Which, is my point. At some point, the money given to Asomugha would be too costly. It could mean Mario is not re-signed. It could mean that the team is not able to sign Abrayo Franklin and Eric Weddle. It could mean the team lets Foster walk in two years. This romanticism of a single free agent at the expense of all logic and reason baffles me.

How did the Haynesworth deal work out? How many of you were begging the Texans to spend money on him?

How about the 8 year 80 million given to Nate Clements... good player but that hasn't worked out too well for SF.

Even with the Patriots got into the elite FA market, it didn't go so well: Adalius Thomas flamed out after the Pats gave him $50 million over 7 years.

This is the NFL, not the NBA. One player doesn't make the difference (other than QB) between winners and losers. Almost all of the great FA signings the past 10 years have been bargain-hunting signings.

Charles Woodson- teams had soured on him after a few mediocre years in Oakland and GB got him at a discount.

Drew Brees- had a bad shoulder and the Saints got him at a discount

Mike Vick- Eagles got him at a major discount after his jail time.


I'm really struggling to think of any elite FA bidding war where the team that ended up with the player got value from him. Anyone? Surely, there is one or two examples but I honestly can't think of any.
Reggie White is a quick one that comes to mind.
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Old 07-26-2011   #171
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Default Re: Nnambi and Houston

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He didn't walk away from anything. The clause in his contract went in effect automatically when he didn't reach the incentive.
Granted. He was set to make a certain amount, clause triggered, contract void. Is that about right?

I think that illustrates the point even further though. Nobody can say exactly what he's going to cost right now. Does he want stupid-money right now, competitive situation for excellent money, or excellent money and long-term security? Does he want to play on a team with someone in particular? Does he want to play in a certain city?

It's all up in the air until we see some offers.
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Old 07-26-2011   #172
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Default Re: Nnambi and Houston

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Originally Posted by BetaV1 View Post
Cak and Dale are spot on in this topic. If you ask me whether I want Aso, or Eric Weddle and one of the other corners out there, I'll take the latter in a heart beat. This defense has far too many holes in the backfield to assume that one player is going to turn us into Peyton Manning's worst nightmare. Dale also nailed it rock solid with his post on page two about how outbidding the entire NFL for a single player can really set your franchise back if they fail to live up to their pay, which is more often the case than not.

I, too, agree with Cak and draw the line around the $17 million range. At some point, any sensible person says "this is too much money."
Well since the lockout was mainly about money and how teams just don't make enough of it...ehh... who cares... it's only our money they are playing with !!

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Old 07-26-2011   #173
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Default Re: Nnambi and Houston

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Reggie White, as well, did pretty good when he went to the Packers.
Reggie White, Charles Haley, Deion Sanders, etc... are irrelevant in this discussion, because that era was before the salary cap and at the beginning of its implementation when the rules were easily manipulated.
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Old 07-26-2011   #174
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Default Re: Nnambi and Houston

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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Samuel's deal was pretty big, but not a monster deal. I would love for the Texans to spend a similar amount on a CB this year.

Antonio Smith's deal included only about $10 million guaranteed. Deals like the one the Texans gave Antonio are exactly the kind of deals I want the Texans to make.

The Peppers deal is a fair example- It seems a little early to judge the deal. He certainly played well last season and they did reach the playoffs... so, I think that's your best example right now.
Samuel's deal fits perfectly fine in to the realm of top FA available for that particular year, which was like 3 years ago now. If you want to spend that kind of money for that contract length, more than likely you are looking way down into the Richard Marshall's, Brandon Carr and players like that.

It's fine if you want the Texans to sign players like that, but I think most people around here and in Houston would rather the Texans actually take a risk in free agency more than once every 3 years.

And it's not like Nnamdi is some Dunta Robinson type player who just happens to be the best available this year but really isn't that good. He is generally considered to be one of the 2 best corners in the game (like Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald are to WR's right now) as of me typing this. Even if he doesn't work out, it's not like he's Haynesworth who was only good when he was angling for a new contract, he's been doing it without much help around him for awhile now.
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Old 07-26-2011   #175
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Default Re: Nnambi and Houston

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Well since the lockout was mainly about money and how teams just don't make enough of it...ehh... who cares... it's only our money they are playing with !!

Salary Cap! Particularly now, with the new CBA rules... whatever money given to Nnambi is money that can't go to other FAs.
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Old 07-26-2011   #176
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Salary Cap! Particularly now, with the new CBA rules... whatever money given to Nnambi is money that can't go to other FAs.
The big FA's we sign every year?
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Old 07-26-2011   #177
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Default Re: Nnambi and Houston

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This free agent market is flooded, particularly at the CB position. I'm not sure which players will be the best bargains, only that the principles of supply and demand will ensure that some will be. We have never seen a market this loaded with young talent in the salary cap era. Here are some names for you:

Johnathan Joseph
Brent Grimes
Antonio Cromartie
Brandon Carr
Josh Wilson
Chris Carr
Richard Marshall
Kelly Jennings
Chris Houston
Eric Wright
Fabian Washington


and that list excludes the 30 and 31 year old FAs that will also be in market:

Drayton Florence
Carlos Rogers
Ike Taylor
Phillip Buchanan


I'm not saying that all those guys are great players. But, some are/will be very good and smart teams will have the opportunity to assess which ones will have the best value as the NFL moves through this truncated free agent process.
I heard a guy on the radio yesterday refer to Cromartie as the 3rd best cover corner in the league today.


Does anyone agree with that?
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Old 07-26-2011   #178
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Default Re: Nnambi and Houston

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Samuel's deal fits perfectly fine in to the realm of top FA available for that particular year, which was like 3 years ago now. If you want to spend that kind of money for that contract length, more than likely you are looking way down into the Richard Marshall's, Brandon Carr and players like that.

It's fine if you want the Texans to sign players like that, but I think most people around here and in Houston would rather the Texans actually take a risk in free agency more than once every 3 years.

And it's not like Nnamdi is some Dunta Robinson type player who just happens to be the best available this year but really isn't that good. He is generally considered to be one of the 2 best corners in the game (like Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald are to WR's right now) as of me typing this. Even if he doesn't work out, it's not like he's Haynesworth who was only good when he was angling for a new contract, he's been doing it without much help around him for awhile now.
I understanding wanting Nnambi. If the Texans signed him, part of me would be very excited. I just love this free agent market and think we could allocate the resources better. Other than trying to make that point, what I'm arguing about is the idea that some posters have that the Texans not signing Nnambi = Texans don't care/want to win. I will gladly acknowledge that signing Nnambi could work out really well for the Texans. It's odd to me that some can't acknowledge that there are other things the Texans could do in this market that could lead to success as well. There are over 500 FAs, many of them are very good and also young... Of course there are other signings the Texans could do that would be both prudent and a genuine effort to build a championship team.

Mainly, the one thing they can't do, is not participate in this free agency. They need to upgrade that secondary with quality veterans. If they are inactive, I'll be the first to criticize them. And, by active, I don't mean signing a couple "C" level free agents for 3 yrs. and $5 million.
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Old 07-26-2011   #179
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Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
Johnathan Joseph-Would love to get him if we can't get Aso.
Brent Grimes-Is gonna resign w/ the Falcons
Antonio Cromartie-Dude sucks.
Brandon Carr-He's good but at best he's a #2 CB.
Josh Wilson-Maybe for our #2 CB, but Kareem Jackson isn't or will he ever be the #1 CB, so no.
Chris Carr-He's still w/ the Ravens
Richard Marshall-too small to be #1 CB right now. Not sure how good he really is.
Kelly Jennings-only 2 career interceptions, dude been playing for four years by now, no thanks. Unless he's a shutdown CB, but no thanks.
Chris Houston-lol, are you kidding me???
Eric Wright-eh, settle for him and we wont be making the playoffs any time soon.
Fabian Washington-Dude sucks
how about we just go after Aso?
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Old 07-26-2011   #180
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Default Re: Nnambi and Houston

Aso is in discussion for the best CB in the league. He has been consistent for years and still has several good years of football available. Those kind of players rarely hit the market. Usually its a one year wonder or an average player who is talked up more than his ability suggests.

When an Aso becomes a FA you MUST put your best offer forward.
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