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Old 07-24-2011   #241
76Texan
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
You are putting too much pressure on the safeties IMO. Their job is to help the corners when possible. Not completely bail them out. Otherwise, what exactly is the point of Kareem being out there?

The safeties were not good, but when you have lbs that struggle in coverage and corners that can't stay within tackling distance of their man it makes your job harder.

I also presented the safeties in these plays as they were.
I look at what their job assignments were and whether they were able to fullfill them.

On the R. Williams play, for example.
It was a one-receiver route with Wilson lining up on that side.
If a safety cannot provide any form of help in that instance, thre's no other conclusion that can be drawn other than he failed utterly at his job.

On the Jabar Gafney 50yd catch (which was actually on a different thread), the Texans were in cover 2 (5-underneath zone, not man).
There was only one receiver on that side and he (Gaffney) ran a skinny post right toward Nolan's landmark.
Nolan bit on the run fake and vacated his zone.

Jackson stretched his zone more than 30 yards and ran after the receiver.
But in an underneath zone, you can ask the CB to stretch only so much.
(I can show you a Dunta play I happen to found to show you how much further away from the receiver Dunta was.)

The mistake was unequivocally Nolan's.
It had nothing to do with Jackson's speed.

In a 5 underneath - 2 deep zone, the CB seeks his landmark, looks for the QB, and reacts.

It's not Jackson's fault that Nolan failed to keep his assignment.
But because Jackson ran after the receiver that he was blamed for the play.
(If only you remember who posted a link to that video in the first place, you would know that he's one of the harshest critics of Jackson, and he was completely bias there.)
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Old 07-24-2011   #242
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

Here's Jackson in cover 2 on the Gaffney catch:











The whole sequence can be found here:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/...reduce%20size/
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Old 07-24-2011   #243
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

Here's Dunta in cover 2 vs the Titans in 09.

Which guy played the coverage better (stretching their underneath zone)?
Dunta or Jackson?

Which safety played the coverage better?
Wilson on Justin Gage or Nolan on Gaffney?





The guy stood looking near the yard marker was Dunta. He was only 9 yards from the LOS.

The whole sequence can be found here:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/...ans%20in%2009/
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Old 07-24-2011   #244
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I never did see Jackson play the shuffle at Alabama (even though Saban did use it on a very limited basis some years before.)

They didn't play zone there either.
When people talk about zone at Alabama, it was the pattern matching concept.
It's a zone that turns into man very quickly.
It's more like switch-man defense in basketball with weak side help, something like that.

I know that all the SEC fields were grass.
I imagine he needs some time to get use to playing on other surfaces, wearing different type of shoes.
He fell down plenty on the grass field in Reliant.

Hopefully he continues to make the improvements that were starting to show at the end of last yr.
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Old 07-24-2011   #245
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Here's Jackson in cover 2 on the Gaffney catch:

The whole sequence can be found here:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/...reduce%20size/
You can't tell squat from those screen captures. But, you can watch the actual video here and see that Jackson never bumped Jabar, turned and ran with him the entire play, and was smoked by the speed challenged Gaffney.

And that was exactly the lack of field speed that Wade Phillips is concerned with. That's not coaching. That's not technique. That's just getting outrun by a possession receiver.
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Old 07-24-2011   #246
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

Who is Kareem Jackson?

Last edited by playa465; 07-24-2011 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 07-24-2011   #247
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Allen can run with most receivers, but too often, he can't finish the play.
In a way, he's like JJ of the defense, dropping a few catches more than you would like to see.

I know you like Harris.
My opinion is that he's Jackson younger brother."Au contraire" to what you thought, I watched Aso about half a dozen times recently to study him. He's not in zero coverage at any time (The Texans were.) They rolled the safety over to help him just as much as the Texans did to Jackson. On the average, he received better safety help.
WIll you explain this? Two different types of corners.

i am not saying a safety will never help out Aso but it is well known that Asomugha can take care of one side of field by himself. Yes, he will make some bad plays any any player will but most plays you can roll both safeties away from his side offering more strength to Harris.
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Old 07-24-2011   #248
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
In the Chargers game, it cam be said that none of the 3 guys involved played it well.

Quin is at the top of he screen, Jacksona the bottom and Wilson at safety.









Note that in last two frames QB appears to have committed to runnoing or throwing towards Jackson's side and FS Wilson's back remains toward that area of field where WR will take KJ.
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Old 07-24-2011   #249
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
You can't tell squat from those screen captures. But, you can watch the actual video here and see that Jackson never bumped Jabar, turned and ran with him the entire play, and was smoked by the speed challenged Gaffney.

And that was exactly the lack of field speed that Wade Phillips is concerned with. That's not coaching. That's not technique. That's just getting outrun by a possession receiver.
Ok well heres what happened, "Screen shot" that was illegal by the WR, "Screen Shot" The safety made Jackson look bad. "Screen Shot" Aso would have even gotten beat there. "Screen Shot" See how everything is always so unfair when its jackson "Screen Shot" Allens INT was a fluke he had terrible coverage "Screen Shot" He fell due to a flaw in The grass, the gardener ambushed K. Jac. Summary Cant you see how good K. Jac is and how unfairly he's being judged.
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Old 07-24-2011   #250
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
You can't tell squat from those screen captures. But, you can watch the actual video here and see that Jackson never bumped Jabar, turned and ran with him the entire play, and was smoked by the speed challenged Gaffney.

And that was exactly the lack of field speed that Wade Phillips is concerned with. That's not coaching. That's not technique. That's just getting outrun by a possession receiver.
Did you watch the video with sound off?

Must be, 'casue you certainly missed what the announcer was saying:
"Troy Nolan beaten on the play."

Also, there's no specific rule in cover two that the CB has to bump the receiver.
Quin certainly didn't bump the receiver.
And by the way, Jackson lined up at least 7 yards away from the LOS, any kind of bump will be a penalty.

Another note for you: In cover 2, the safety can never be found closer to the LOS than the CB.

Yet another note for you, based on your definition, Dunta was a turtle; he was a mile away from the receiver.
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Old 07-24-2011   #251
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
Note that in last two frames QB appears to have committed to runnoing or throwing towards Jackson's side and FS Wilson's back remains toward that area of field where WR will take KJ.
I dont think I catch your point.
That was still the early stage of the play.

If you continue to watch the series of screenshot, you will see that Wilson dropped back just past the 35 yard line.
That was where he was still in good position.
At that time, Rivers still had the ball.
Just as in the game against the Raiders, Rivers is very good at "looking off" the safety.
He baits Wilson into thinking that he will go with the crossing route.
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Old 07-24-2011   #252
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Here's Dunta in cover 2 vs the Titans in 09.

Which guy played the coverage better (stretching their underneath zone)?
Dunta or Jackson?

Which safety played the coverage better?
Wilson on Justin Gage or Nolan on Gaffney?





The guy stood looking near the yard marker was Dunta. He was only 9 yards from the LOS.

The whole sequence can be found here:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/...ans%20in%2009/
Dunta played it better. He was closer to his man and he forced the qb to make a really tough throw.

Kareem was terrible an undrafted FA burned him. Just about any qb could have completed that pass and just about every qb did.
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Old 07-24-2011   #253
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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
I also presented the safeties in these plays as they were.
I look at what their job assignments were and whether they were able to fullfill them.

On the R. Williams play, for example.
It was a one-receiver route with Wilson lining up on that side.
If a safety cannot provide any form of help in that instance, thre's no other conclusion that can be drawn other than he failed utterly at his job.
)
So nevermind that Jackson got his ass handed to him at the Los.

Pretty sure Eugene wasn't expecting Kareem to slip and fall and allow such a quick throw.

A more talented safety probably could have prevented the td but once again you are missing the elephant in the room which is Jackson was awful on the play.
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Old 07-24-2011   #254
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by badboy View Post
WIll you explain this? Two different types of corners.

i am not saying a safety will never help out Aso but it is well known that Asomugha can take care of one side of field by himself. Yes, he will make some bad plays any any player will but most plays you can roll both safeties away from his side offering more strength to Harris.
Both Jackson and Harris play the same type of coverage in college (pattern matching).
They both play out of the backpedal or turn and run.

Harris split time between CB and nickel (against slot receivers whose speed and size are not the same as a wide-out.)
If you watch Jackson at Alabama, he was your description of Aso at the collegiate level.
Jackson never lost a foot race against the collegiate receivers he faced.
It's been awhile and I don't have my notes, so I can't remember if Harris ever did (I think he did).
Basically, I saw Jackson sticking with the receivers a little better than Harris.
Jackson played help defense (when he comes off his man to help another receiver) a little better than Harris.
Jackson gets off blocks to support the run quite better than Harris.

That's why I say I saw Harris as Jackson's younger brother.

Why do you think they are two different type of corners?
Maybe I missed something!?!

In about 8 games that I watched Aso, he wasn't on his own any more than we saw of Jackson (as of my estimate).
I never saw the Raiders play zero coverage (no safety help).
The Texans did.
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Old 07-24-2011   #255
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Dunta played it better. He was closer to his man and he forced the qb to make a really tough throw.

Kareem was terrible an undrafted FA burned him. Just about any qb could have completed that pass and just about every qb did.
What are you talking about.
The guy running with Gage was Wilson.
Dunta was standing around near the down marker.
He was at most 9 yards from the LOS.
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Old 07-24-2011   #256
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
So nevermind that Jackson got his ass handed to him at the Los.

Pretty sure Eugene wasn't expecting Kareem to slip and fall and allow such a quick throw.

A more talented safety probably could have prevented the td but once again you are missing the elephant in the room which is Jackson was awful on the play.
Quick throw?

1. There was contact between CB and receiver.
That's always give the safety more time than a free release.

2. R.Williams slowed down and reached back to catch the pass.
That ought to give the safety more time.

3. It was a single receiver route.
You can never tell me that a safety is allowed not to be anywhere near the receiver on such a route.

4. As a CB, even as you try to avoid the receiver to get away with an offensive PI, sometimes they still do.

5. I don't get it; I can't see how you can't read your own writing and didn't see that you're not objective.
I was, as I had presented that Wilson's late reaction might have been due to the fact that he saw the Center crossing the LOS illegally to block Diles way before the pass was thrown, and therefore, he may have read "draw, screen, what the heck, he passes the ball, where's the flag?"
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Old 07-25-2011   #257
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by 76Texan View Post
Did you watch the video with sound off?

Must be, 'casue you certainly missed what the announcer was saying:
"Troy Nolan beaten on the play."

Also, there's no specific rule in cover two that the CB has to bump the receiver.
Quin certainly didn't bump the receiver.
And by the way, Jackson lined up at least 7 yards away from the LOS, any kind of bump will be a penalty.

Another note for you: In cover 2, the safety can never be found closer to the LOS than the CB.

Yet another note for you, based on your definition, Dunta was a turtle; he was a mile away from the receiver.
Was that cover 2?

The tight-end started on the outside, Jackson had him. Gaffney was in the slot, looked like Nolan had him..... It looked like man to me.

When the tightend motioned to the RT, Jackson came to get Gaffney, Nolan should have switched to the TE.

Doesn't look like Nolan switched. Gaffney ran right past both Jackson & Nolan......

There are probably a couple of things that should have happened or could've happened on that play. Regardless, there is no reason for KJac to allow Gaffney to run past him when he sees he has no help.

I don't know if that is evidence of lack of talent, or lack of speed. for all I know, he got caught up trying to tell Nolan to back up & go to a cover 2 shell....
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Old 07-25-2011   #258
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Originally Posted by Rey View Post
Dunta played it better. He was closer to his man and he forced the qb to make a really tough throw.

Kareem was terrible an undrafted FA burned him. Just about any qb could have completed that pass and just about every qb did.


What? This is the picture where KC throws the ball. Dunta is at the top of the screen, with no one around him. He has no affect whatsoever to any throw to any Titan, because he is not around any Titan.

This is Dunta half assing it.


This is the receiver catching the ball around the 10 yard line. That's Wilson covering him.

Dunta is at the top of the screen shot, to the left......... by himself.

He ran with the receiver all of 3 yards then released him.
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Old 07-25-2011   #259
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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He fell down plenty on the grass field in Reliant.

Hopefully he continues to make the improvements that were starting to show at the end of last yr.
Do you keep track of the times Jackson fall down?
I'm not sure I saw a lot of it.

The R.Williams play, he slipped because Williams pushed on the back shoulder and then pulled on the arm.

In the Giants game, I know there was a bubble screen in which he stepped inside Pollard and his man. I will take a much more detail look, but I'm pretty sure that as he made a change of direction while staying low to the ground. He put a hand on the ground in the proccess, which is a technique; I don't think he slipped.

There was one play I know he fell dwn on his own, but get right up (maybe the Oakland game, maybe on a run by Mcfaden.) It wasn't a big problem as the other guys; it was a run.

I don't keep track of them; there might be one or two more?

At any rate, I've seen other guys slip on their own.
Quin at least twice for sure, Allen at least twice (in just 7 games).
I've seen McCain slipped, Pollard slipped, Wilson slipped.

I'm still not sure what was the big deal with this.
Personally, I think it was just a good joke that caught on like wild fire.
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Old 07-25-2011   #260
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Default Re: Kareem Jackson's plight.

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Was that cover 2?

The tight-end started on the outside, Jackson had him. Gaffney was in the slot, looked like Nolan had him..... It looked like man to me.

When the tightend motioned to the RT, Jackson came to get Gaffney, Nolan should have switched to the TE.

Doesn't look like Nolan switched. Gaffney ran right past both Jackson & Nolan......

There are probably a couple of things that should have happened or could've happened on that play. Regardless, there is no reason for KJac to allow Gaffney to run past him when he sees he has no help.

I don't know if that is evidence of lack of talent, or lack of speed. for all I know, he got caught up trying to tell Nolan to back up & go to a cover 2 shell....
It was cover 2, 5-underneath zones, with a 4-man front.
Based on this formation and also the fact that the announcer said "Troy Nolan beaten on the play".
We can tell that Nolan bit the run fake and vacated his two-deep zone.
That can be the only reason for the announcer to say so.

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