Kareem Jackson's plight.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Lucky

In summary, I do not feel it would be wise for the Texans to assume that Jackson will improve and become a competent player in 2011. By drafting CBs and (hopefully) bringing in a top free agent, I believe the organization agrees with that rationale. It's time for the Texans to discontinue the practice of handing young players jobs they have not earned. Kareem Jackson has yet to earn a job as a Houston Texan.

FYI, this is what Kubiak said at the combine:

(on what’s been said to cornerback Kareem Jackson this offseason) “I think he’s going to be a great player. I really do. We drafted him. We put him in a tough spot. As a player, we start him from day one. We know he went through some tough times. The whole back end went through some tough times. To be a great player in this league, I think you have to go through some of that. The thing that I’m impressed with Kareem is through last year he never missed a day. Never missed a practice. Never missed a game. When you’re able to withstand that type of stuff, you’re able to go through tough times. The biggest bounce you usually make is from year one to two. I’m expecting him to do that.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/ar...2-671c5554f1ae

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by badboy

If you are saying the circles I thought were receivers are actually TEs.. maybe. But nothing indicates that. If it is two WRs, I want corners on them; SS and LBs should cover TEs leaving a FS to back up the play.

The formation is a standard straight I, with one TE lining up outside the tackle.
The two outside circles are receivers.

It's not like you're asking the FS to run with a receiver; he only comes down to cut off the slant route.

There were a few plays last year that Bush actually had Pollard and Wilson run with the receiver.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by badboy

And this is why we had problems as our CBs could not run with many WRs and had to have safety help but did not many times. If our CBs could run with WRs, the QB could not successfully choose where to throw regardless of the FS. If we have Aso and my draft pick Brandon Harris @ corners with Quin helping out Harris ALWAYS, then QB has to hope ASO slips or WR just beats him.

Allen can run with most receivers, but too often, he can't finish the play.
In a way, he's like JJ of the defense, dropping a few catches more than you would like to see.

I know you like Harris.
My opinion is that he's Jackson younger brother.

"Au contraire" to what you thought, I watched Aso about half a dozen times recently to study him. He's not in zero coverage at any time (The Texans were.) They rolled the safety over to help him just as much as the Texans did to Jackson. On the average, he received better safety help.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by DocBar

That would be great if we had any LB's that were good in coverage. I'm with you and a few others as far as being concerned with our LB corps. I don't count on Ryans coming back anywhere near 100% his pre-injury self or count on him for any extended length of time. So with whom and how is Wade going to improve that aspect of coverage? Do you think Sharpton will be that much improved in his sophomor season? He showed nice flashes last season.

I like Sharpton. I just rewatched a little of the Broncos game and it was said during the game that the Texans are really excited about him (I've heard that before.)

I know I've said this before, but we do have quite a few players who played the same coverage scheme as Wade's in college: Jackson, Harris, Carmichael, Keo, Demeco, Sharpton, Adibi.

I know I have some game tapes of Nolan somewhere, I can check that as well.
Don't think I have one of Quin though.

Safety or CB?
Well, if we only get one than I have to go with Aso.

I actually think that Jackson's make up is very good to be a safety.
If we get Aso and another vet, I wouldn't hesitate to move Jackson to safety.

Nolan may work out if he can raise his football IQ some (but then again, we've already tried Pollard.)
I still haven't given up on him though. We'll see if he can improve.

In the end, it's probably more realistic to hope for a vet CB not named Aso and a vet safety.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

In the end, it's probably more realistic to hope for a vet CB not named Aso and a vet safety.

I want a vet CB and a vet Safety.

If one of the vet's names is Asomugha, then all the better. I still want that safety, though.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

I want a vet CB and a vet Safety.

If one of the vet's names is Asomugha, then all the better. I still want that safety, though.

Man, I hope that we won't be crushed once FA is completed!
I'm just afraid that they might not make any move on that front.

[76Texan]

In the Chargers game, it cam be said that none of the 3 guys involved played it well.

Quin is at the top of he screen, Jacksona the bottom and Wilson at safety.

[76Texan]

Here we see that Jackson is threatened with a possible backshoulder fade, or a corner route.

At this moment, Jackson can see that Wilson was still in good position to provide help inside.

We can also see that it was cover 3 because the crosser was distancing himself from Quin.

[76Texan]

Wilson committed himself way before Rivers threw the pass.
You can't do that in cover 3.
The rule of thumb is to break on the ball.
(Let's recall that on the pass to R. Williams, Wilson didn't react until way after the ball was thrown.)

Wilson can only break early if a drop kick call was made.
In that case, Quin took too much of a vertical break instead of heading straight toward the deep route.

From the shuffle, Jackson was forced to take a baseball turn and therefore could not squeeze the route more to the inside.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Here we see that Jackson is threatened with a possible backshoulder fade, or a corner route.

At this moment, Jackson can see that Wilson was still in good position to provide help inside.

We can also see that it was cover 3 because the crosser was distancing himself from Quin.

Is there a problem here with the spacing of the linebackers?

Should the MLB have gotten a little more depth on this? Or is this where he's supposed to be? That just seems like a huge hole there and the LB should be taking that passing lane away. At least, that's what it looks like to me.

[76Texan]

The baseball turn from the shuffle also left Jackson behind the receiver.

In this case, the shuffle technique hurt.
The miscommunication between the back 3 hurt more though.

[steelbtexan]

You're making it sound like KJ was almost on par with Aso. Except the Raiders had better S play. If this is true Huff should be valued like Reed and Polamalu in FA.

You've done a fine job using a few plays to illustrate your point with KJ. My eyes at the time told me a different story. I also remember the thread about D.Gibbs teaching the CB's a different technique than most other DB coaches. This contributed mightly to KJ's struggles. IMHO

I do appreciate all of the time you spend watching film. It's very informative.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

Is there a problem here with the spacing of the linebackers?

Should the MLB have gotten a little more depth on this? Or is this where he's supposed to be? That just seems like a huge hole there and the LB should be taking that passing lane away. At least, that's what it looks like to me.

I have considered it and I agree with you.
But it's also a tough call for the MLB.
He did have to play the run, and then he had to look for the FB at the same time he made his drop.

The rule in zone coverage is to gain depth first, and that he didn't do.
He went horizontal a bit too much.
He could have helped Wilson from making the early jump, but only if he committed to getting depth first.

Basically, the Chargers PA run fake works just as ours normally did.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

You're making it sound like KJ was almost on par with Aso. Except the Raiders had better S play. If this is true Huff should be valued like Reed and Polamalu in FA.

You've done a fine job using a few plays to illustrate your point with KJ. My eyes at the time told me a different story. I also remember the thread about D.Gibbs teaching the CB's a different technique than most other DB coaches. This contributed mightly to KJ's struggles. IMHO

I do appreciate all of the time you spend watching film. It's very informative.

I just mentioned that the shuffle technique hurt Jackson in this case.
(You will see that very often when I get to the games - I think I already did in those game analysis.)

Better safety play than what the Texans had last year isn't hard to find.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

You're making it sound like KJ was almost on par with Aso. Except the Raiders had better S play. If this is true Huff should be valued like Reed and Polamalu in FA.

You've done a fine job using a few plays to illustrate your point with KJ.

What 76 has shown, is that KJ did what he was supposed to do in specific situations.

Aso, Revis, & a handful of other CBs do the things they are supposed to, & then some. They make things happen. We haven't seen that from KJac. He's still learning & if you've really watched him all year, you'll know he was much better at the end of the season..... but the game is still too fast for him. We'll see if it's slowed down any in a few weeks.

Ω

[Rey]

I think you are making things too complicated. I disagree with your analysis of the play as well.

To me it looks like the lb didn't get deep enough and the safety had to come up and fill the void. He squeezes down on the crossing route and he let's Jackson "handle" the deep route.

Jackson just used poor technique and wasn't physically gifted enough to overcome it. He got roasted. Even if Eugene plays the deep route the middle crossing route is wide open because of the play fake and the lbs not busting his butt to get depth.

Rivers is a very good qb and be was going to find the open man.

Jackson still needs to be able to make a tackle or be in the vicinity to at least make a play on the receiver.

You are putting too much pressure on the safeties IMO. Their job is to help the corners when possible. Not completely bail them out. Otherwise, what exactly is the point of Kareem being out there?

The safeties were not good, but when you have lbs that struggle in coverage and corners that can't stay within tackling distance of their man it makes your job harder.

I said this before and I'll say it again. . .Bernard pollard had a very good year the year before Kareem arrived and Wilson was thought to be a decent stop gap until we got a better player there.

Kareem and the rest of the kiddy corners arrive and they are the worst coverage safeties ever? Not buying it.

I've seen dunta and reeves and other corners at least be around the receiver when the catch was made. I haven't seen a corner consistently so far away from his man when the ball was thrown since faggins.

The safety isn't always going to be right there over the top giving a helping hand. You have to man up and make a play sometimes. Kareem never did that.

If the safety didn't do enough to help Kareem he got burned. That's mostly what I'm getting from this thread.

If Kareem got burned it was someone elses fault. Coaches, safeties, wr cheated.

Well Kareem needs to man the heck up next season because every thing around him isnt always going to be perfect. It'd be nice if the first round pick could actually flash some playmaking ability or at least not look uncomfortable so much.

Even if you found one Kareem esque play from aso I guarantee that he manned up and made more plays when someone else messed up than Kareem did. I know that Deion has some plays where he looked bad, Kareem Jackson bad. But I guarantee be manned up and made some plays.

I didn't think Kareem would be great his rookie season, but I didn't expect him to be that bad.

I really can't take the analysis serious because you arent presenting plays that clearly show Kareem messing up. Every bad play he was a part of you are blaming it on someone else.

It would make for a better discussion if you presented both sides so that a good analysis could be made. Show the good, the bad and the ugly. Right not it just seems like you are trying to force feed this notion that Kareem was actually good. It was everyone else around him that let him down.

And I'm not saying this with any animosity or mean spiritedness. I just don't think that you are being very objective and you are looking for and clinging on to anything you can find to try and prove a point that most of us just aren't going to take seriously.

Kareem was awful last year. I think he has talent. But a majority of his woes were not due to outside forces. Well maybe the biggest factor was an outside force. He should have never been handed a starting job without earning it. He was not ready.

Hopefully this coming season he steps his game up.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

You're making it sound like KJ was almost on par with Aso. Except the Raiders had better S play. If this is true Huff should be valued like Reed and Polamalu in FA.

You've done a fine job using a few plays to illustrate your point with KJ. My eyes at the time told me a different story. I also remember the thread about D.Gibbs teaching the CB's a different technique than most other DB coaches. This contributed mightly to KJ's struggles. IMHO

I do appreciate all of the time you spend watching film. It's very informative.

I think the main thing to take away is that KJ wasn't always as bad as he looked. That's not to say he was great or that he was anywhere near the level he needed to be. But the safeties and linebackers didn't do him any favors.

I've been meaning to ask 76Texan about the difference in footwork and if that caused KJ problems especially coming from a college that taught a technique.

But ultimately, our whole defense sucked. Top to bottom. And I don't think our players are that stupid or that untalented. Why is it that our players (for the past 5 years) have to have our defenses dumbed down for them and have to play everything vanilla and no one else's players seem to have that problem? That's got to be at least partially on the coaches.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Rey

I think you are making things too complicated. I disagree with your analysis of the play as well.

To me it looks like the lb didn't get deep enough and the safety had to come up and fill the void. He squeezes down on the crossing route and he let's Jackson "handle" the deep route.

Jackson just used poor technique and wasn't physically gifted enough to overcome it. He got roasted. Even if Eugene plays the deep route the middle crossing route is wide open because of the play fake and the lbs not busting his butt to get depth.

Rivers is a very good qb and be was going to find the open man.

Jackson still needs to be able to make a tackle or be in the vicinity to at least make a play on the receiver.

You are putting too much pressure on the safeties IMO. Their job is to help the corners when possible. Not completely bail them out. Otherwise, what exactly is the point of Kareem being out there?

I have put down all the situations you said (on this play).

I talked about the LB not getting depth, and about the shuffle techqniue.
I also said Jackson was unable to squeeze the route more to the inside.
I didn't let him off the hook.

I still maintain the two more important points however:

1. In cover 3, the safety cannot break before the ball is thrown unless he made a great read or the D had a drop-kick call on.
Otherwise, they would just have to bide their time ang give up the crossing route like the Chargers safety did, giving up a 17yd gain to JJ and a 33-yd gain to Casey.
Jammer was a #5 pick overall in 2003; why can't the Chargers let him alone to cover the deep route?

2. If there was a drop-kick call, Quin needed to head directly toward the play.

....

You are asking too much of Jackson in this instance even though you've seen how far Aso was from the play (he was even further away than Jackson.)

You've seen that Walter could have had a TD if the ball was thrown to a receiver on stride.

So why can't Aso man-up and make a tackle before the receiver crossed the goal line?
What was the use of him being out there?

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

I've been meaning to ask 76Texan about the difference in footwork and if that caused KJ problems especially coming from a college that taught a technique.

I never did see Jackson play the shuffle at Alabama (even though Saban did use it on a very limited basis some years before.)

They didn't play zone there either.
When people talk about zone at Alabama, it was the pattern matching concept.
It's a zone that turns into man very quickly.
It's more like switch-man defense in basketball with weak side help, something like that.

I know that all the SEC fields were grass.
I imagine he needs some time to get use to playing on other surfaces, wearing different type of shoes.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Rey

If the safety didn't do enough to help Kareem he got burned. That's mostly what I'm getting from this thread.

If Kareem got burned it was someone elses fault. Coaches, safeties, wr cheated.


I really can't take the analysis serious because you arent presenting plays that clearly show Kareem messing up. Every bad play he was a part of you are blaming it on someone else.

It would make for a better discussion if you presented both sides so that a good analysis could be made. Show the good, the bad and the ugly. Right not it just seems like you are trying to force feed this notion that Kareem was actually good. It was everyone else around him that let him down.

You keep missing the main point.
That is why the title of the thread is "Jackson's plight".
It is meant to show those plays where he was really not terrible (though certainly nowhere near great) but was made out to be terrible.

You cannot condemn a player when he was doing what he was told by his coaches.
Can he do some thing better? Certainly!

I fail to see how by showing these plays that I can force feed the notion that Jackson was good.
He didn't do anything spectacular in those plays.