Kareem Jackson's plight.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

As Walter turned back to the inside, he naturally got separation from the LCB.
This guy simply doesn't know which way the receiver was going.
Remember that this was not man coverage (because the other CB never followed AJ on the crossing route.)

I think some people have gotten too far away from the spirit of this thread.... this is just a little reminder of where we started.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Here's the series where Namdi was in the same boat as Jackson.
This one resulted in a 41-yd TD, but it could have been 99yd for all we know.
In the first screen shot, you cannot see the safety but he's back there.

bump

[Rey]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Just about all of the photos in this thread have the offense running the same 2 receiver route. All of them show corners, more experienced than KJac in the same position. Including Aso, no position to make a play.

No one is talking about how bad those corners are. KJac is getting scrutinized here for doing the same thing others have done.

Dunta sucked flat out. I dont' believe he would have helped this team one bit in 2010. I don't think he should have been starting in 2009.

All corners get burned.

I didn't expect kjax to be flawless. And the colts corners suck too.

Show me aso getting roasted all year long like kj and maybe I'll see the point.

Abs btw, I think he actaully has talent. But all this stuff about him not looking as bad as he was is ridiculous. Dude was awful last year and he'll be the first to tell you that.

If the route was not able to be adequately defended in man coverage offenses would run it a lot more often and offenses would be a lot more unstoppable.

In fact I've see NFL corners defend that route perfectly.

[Rey]

While you're at it show some footage of Deion being roasted.

Not sure what on earth any of that has to do with Kareem being as bad as he was last year, but might as well show the breakdown.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Rey

While you're at it show some footage of Deion being roasted.

Not sure what on earth any of that has to do with Kareem being as bad as he was last year, but might as well show the breakdown.

I've already presented a couple of game analyis (Colst week 1) and Jets.
It showed that KJax was the CB that had the best performance of the day in each.
Give me time and and I will upload screenshots to show all of that.
(But why can't you show me anything that prove your point , that KJax sucked?)

Now, I don't have Sanders, but if you reread this whole thread, you can see Aso getting burned against the Chargers, not just by the same two-receiver route (in which he was much further away from the action than KJax), but also a 34-yd backshoulder fade on which he was also called for PI.
He also got called for holding and PI on two other seperate plays where he can't afford to let the receiver cut back to the outside. (These are in the gamebook at NFL.com, I don't need to post screenshots of penalties, do I?)
He also got beat as he allowed Floyd to cut back to the outside on another play, but Rivers left the ball just long due to pressure.

Or as Lucky put it, he was "owned" by Floyd the whole game.

Here's a slant route:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/.../15yd%20slant/

Here's a post route:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/...0post%20route/

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by DocBar

I work way too many hours a week to be able to devote as much time to this as you do. I really do enjoy your breakdowns of the games and plays and think you do a good job.
Don't get all butt hurt with me. LOL

I certainly don't mind it at all.
A good friend of mine of some 30 years still butt-head with me about KJax.
He's too busy to watch all of these evidence even though I am willing to sit down and go over all 16 games with him.
He said (like Rey said) that he didn't need to rewath anything, that he believe his own eyes.

I still see him pretty much every week.

[EllisUnit]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

I've already presented a couple of game analyis (Colst week 1) and Jets.
It showed that KJax was the CB that had the best performance of the day in each.
Give me time and and I will upload screenshots to show all of that.
(But why can't you show me anything that prove your point , that KJax sucked?)

Now, I don't have Sanders, but if you reread this whole thread, you can see Aso getting burned against the Chargers, not just by the same two-receiver route (in which he was much further away from the action than KJax), but also a 34-yd backshoulder fade on which he was also called for PI.
He also got called for holding and PI on two other seperate plays where he can't afford to let the receiver cut back to the outside. (These are in the gamebook at NFL.com, I don't need to post screenshots of penalties, do I?)
He also got beat as he allowed Floyd to cut back to the outside on another play, but Rivers left the ball just long due to pressure.

Or as Lucky put it, he was "owned" by Floyd the whole game.

Here's a slant route:

http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/.../15yd%20slant/

Here's a post route:
http://s1217.photobucket.com/albums/...0post%20route/

2 games out of 16 - not great odds. Plus all we saw were slide shows of why K. Jac got beat, our how he was unfairly played due to illegal stuff by WRs, our he looked bad because of safties. And i think most of us dont even bother trying to PROVE how he sucked last season because most everyone "besides" you saw how he played and how bad he sucked. Is is easier to convience someone that their our aliens (K. Jac was good) our that the world isnt flat (K. Jac was bad) i think the obvious here.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by EllisUnit

2 games out of 16 - not great odds. Plus all we saw were slide shows of why K. Jac got beat, our how he was unfairly played due to illegal stuff by WRs, our he looked bad because of safties. And i think most of us dont even bother trying to PROVE how he sucked last season because most everyone "besides" you saw how he played and how bad he sucked. Is is easier to convience someone that their our aliens (K. Jac was good) our that the world isnt flat (K. Jac was bad) i think the obvious here.

Personally, I don't have a problem saying KJac didn't play well.

My problem is people expecting him to have played better.

My problem is people thinking Dunta played better.

My problem is people thinking Jason Allen played better.

KJac is being scape goated here.... He was bad.... but no worse than you should expect from a rookie corner. He was not the worse corner we had last year..... one of the two best.. I think so.

He most definitely wasn't the biggest problem in our secondary. & he isn't our biggest liability in pass defense.

[Rey]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Personally, I don't have a problem saying KJac didn't play well.

My problem is people expecting him to have played better.

My problem is people thinking Dunta played better.

My problem is people thinking Jason Allen played better.

KJac is being scape goated here.... He was bad.... but no worse than you should expect from a rookie corner. He was not the worse corner we had last year..... one of the two best.. I think so.

He most definitely wasn't the biggest problem in our secondary. & he isn't our biggest liability in pass defense.

Dunta did play better k jax was not one of the better DBS last year and he is not being scapegoated because he still has a job.

Pollard was scapegoated. Not kj.

I don't ever recall a corner getting all twisted up at the Los and roasted for a long td the way Roy williams did him.

He actually had me missing reeves. Atleast he uses to be in playmaking distance. Dunta was not good, but dammit I missed him too.

Kj had me missing almost every scrub corner we've ever trotted out there.


He was not good and I'm not sure how you guys can't see that. Pulling up a few plays out of the hundreds he played is not evidence. Pulling up a couple of plays from aso is not evidence. It's a mere sample. I looked at them and you can't really tell much from still shots.

You can't really see what the technique looks like which is most of the battle. You can't see quickness in and out of cuts. You can't see how fluid the backpedal is or what they look like when they turn their hips.

I think you guys are the ones over simplifying things.

Using a small sample size and then declaring that because the safety wasn't where he needed to be kj looked bad.

We don't Where the safety needed to be. And we don't know how the coaches had the secondary playing.

There is a such thing as a corner being in one on one coverage with one or both of the safeties being in a middle zone. Just because you think it should be cover two doesn't mean it is.

I saw enough last year to come to two conclusions. He has talent, he had an awful first year. That's it. Breaking down particular plays is not something I'm going to do. I saw enough bad things all on my own watching the games last year, and none of the bad things were due to him not having help.

At times he was put in a bad position, but the coaches thought they had a number one corner which is all their fault.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Or as Lucky put it, he was "owned" by Floyd the whole game.

Great job of pointing out the only game of 300+ yards passing the Raiders allowed in 2010. The Raiders (with Asomugha) had the 2nd ranked pass defense in yards allowed in 2010.

Kareem Jackson and the Texans pass defense? 5 games of 300+ passing yardage allowed and 32nd (also known as last) in the league in passing yardage. The Texans allowed more passing yardage (267 ypg) than any other defense over the past 5 seasons. I don't know how 1 million screen shots can erase that fact.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Rey

I saw enough last year to come to two conclusions. He has talent, he had an awful first year. That's it. Breaking down particular plays is not something I'm going to do. I saw enough bad things all on my own watching the games last year, and none of the bad things were due to him not having help.

Well, hell, then you agree with us.

Originally Posted by Rey

At times he was put in a bad position, but the coaches thought they had a number one corner which is all their fault.

We don't know that he isn't a number one. I do agree the decision to start him & play him as a #1 wasn't a good idea... Terrance Newman didn't look as bad, but Terrance Newman didn't play on this team....

DRC didn't look great his first year. Reevis didn't start for much of his first year. Kyle Wilson didn't look great his first year.

I don't know that KJac won't be a true #1 before it's all said & done, but he has a lot of perception to overcome...

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Lucky

Great job of pointing out the only game of 300+ yards passing the Raiders allowed in 2010. The Raiders (with Asomugha) had the 2nd ranked pass defense in yards allowed in 2010.

Kareem Jackson and the Texans pass defense? 5 games of 300+ passing yardage allowed and 32nd (also known as last) in the league in passing yardage. The Texans allowed more passing yardage (267 ypg) than any other defense over the past 5 seasons. I don't know how 1 million screen shots can erase that fact.

That wasn't the point. We aren't trying to compare the Texans pass defense with the Raiders or KJac with Aso.

What 76 is illustrating is that the receiver has the edge, always in one on one coverage. The corner has no idea when the ball is going to release, or where the receiver is trying to get to. The defensive scheme dictates how the corner is going to play a particular route on a particular down. Expecting safety help inside, you have to honor the outside route, where there is no help. When you do that, the receiver gets natural separation if they cut back inside. Which is ok, because there is supposed to be a safety there. If the safety isn't there, the easy (and wrong call) would be to blame the CB for being a talentless clueless P.O.S. even though he did exactly what he was supposed to.

We know it is exactly what he was supposed to do, because that is exactly what pro-bowl corners (& the Colts corner) did.

Unless you are saying each one of those corners in the exact same situation played that situation wrong. If that is your argument, all 76 is asking, is to tell him when & where you saw it done right. A picture or video would be nice... but no one is taking him up on that one.

[Lucky]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Unless you are saying each one of those corners in the exact same situation played that situation wrong. If that is your argument, all 76 is asking, is to tell him when & where you saw it done right. A picture or video would be nice... but no one is taking him up on that one.

Don't be obtuse. I watched every play of the Texans 2010 season, as well as many other NFL games. In my lifetime, I've watched over 1000 NFL games. I know what a good cornerback looks like. I know what a bad cornerback looks like. In the 2010 season, Kareem Jackson was a bad cornerback. Even for a rookie. The results back me up.

I'm not saying Jackson was well supported by the players or the coaches surrounding him. I'm not suggesting that it is impossible for Kareem to improve. What I am saying is that Jackson was atrocious in 2010 and it's not automatic that he will improve. There may be physical limitations that he cannot overcome. Wade Phillips himself has openly questioned Jackson's ability.

In summary, I do not feel it would be wise for the Texans to assume that Jackson will improve and become a competent player in 2011. By drafting CBs and (hopefully) bringing in a top free agent, I believe the organization agrees with that rationale. It's time for the Texans to discontinue the practice of handing young players jobs they have not earned. Kareem Jackson has yet to earn a job as a Houston Texan.

[EllisUnit]

Originally Posted by Lucky

Don't be obtuse. I watched every play of the season, as well as many other NFL games. In my lifetime, I've watched over 1000 NFL games. I know what a good cornerback looks like. I know what a bad cornerback looks like. In the 2010 season, Kareem Jackson was a bad cornerback. Even for a rookie. The results back me up.

I'm not saying Jackson was well supported by the players or the coaches surrounding him. I'm not suggesting that it is impossible for Kareem to improve. What I am saying is that Jackson was atrocious in 2010 and it's not automatic that he will improve. There may be physical limitations that he cannot overcome. Wade Phillips himself has openly questioned Jackson's ability.

In summary, I do not feel it would be wise for the Texans to assume that Jackson will improve and become a competent player in 2011. By drafting CBs and (hopefully) bringing in a top free agent, I believe the organization agrees with that rationale. It's time for the Texans to discontinue the practice of handing young players jobs they have not earned. Kareem Jackson has yet to earn a job as a Houston Texan.

Nice post.

[badboy]

I am much more concerned how KJ plays this year with a year under his belt & a better coach. If I am lucky he will be learning behind Asomugha & what 2nd year corner can not benefit from that?

[76Texan]

Comment from Dan Dierdorf on the Walter play:
"He's expecting safety help".

Comment from Solomon Wilcott on the Floyd play:
"Namdi must be saying what happens to the help I wa expecting from the other side of the field?.... Misread and mistake in the secondary will cost you every single time."

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Rey

.



Using a small sample size and then declaring that because the safety wasn't where he needed to be kj looked bad.

We don't Where the safety needed to be. And we don't know how the coaches had the secondary playing.

Well, if we don't know what the secondary was supposed to be playing then how can we blame KJax on these plays (the 2-receiver route)?

Should we just file it under questionable instead?

What I learn is the from either cover one or cover 3, the drop kick call was one of the ways to defend the pattern (safety staying back is the other).

I found the drop-kick call in Wade's playbook (when he was in Atlanta); it's not something that I made up.
We saw it in action in one of the example I gave.
The Yates' INT.

This thread isn't supposed to cover all the plays involving KJax;
its title is Jackson's plight.
It is meant to show certain plays KJax was being blamed for are at least questionable.

If I have time, I will get to all the important plays in each game.

[76Texan]

In the 3 plays that involved the Texans (the two-man route), we should be able to determine that it was cover 3 because Quin did not follow the crossing route.

If there's no drop kick call then the safety simply has to stay back deep.

[badboy]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

In the 3 plays that involved the Texans (the two-man route), we should be able to determine that it was cover 3 because Quin did not follow the crossing route.

If there's no drop kick call then the safety simply has to stay back deep.

76 I think what we hve on this thread is reality (your POV) & perception of reality (my view). I am not ready to give up my view for yours yet. Although what you are showing and saying does make sense. Reminds me of the threads about Chris Myer and Okoye. Kubiak defended Okoye last season and then phillips comes along and hints he has no place for the guy.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by badboy

76 I think what we hve on this thread is reality (your POV) & perception of reality (my view). I am not ready to give up my view for yours yet. Although what you are showing and saying does make sense. Reminds me of the threads about Chris Myer and Okoye. Kubiak defended Okoye last season and then phillips comes along and hints he has no place for the guy.

All I'm asking for is an open mind.

BTW, here's the drop-kick call from the playbook.
It doesn't even involve the CB on play side (Jackson).
It simply states that when this call is made (automatically or as the safety calls out, we don't know), the safety comes down on the crossing route and the off-side CB (Quin) takes his place deep.

It clearly says CORNER in the POST.