Kareem Jackson's plight.

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by TEXANRED

Jackson's plight is that he was drafted to high, he started right away, he is 2-3 years from being a decent CB, and he is just not a good NFL player.
Our scouting department along with Rick Smith should do the right thing and perform Seppuku for their shame.

Those seem to be mutualy exclusive and contradictory. Most NFL rookies are 2-3 years from being good at their positions.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by EllisUnit

Show me some slide shows of Allen that proves he's worse than K. Jac.

That is in the card, my young man (I do like your enthusiasm too).
Some of the things I can show you (if I have time) includes the time he was with the Dolphins.
It will be kinda funny though, the Dolphins time, it looks like he was alright (and pretty good even).
I don't know what to tell you; on the surface, Allen had his good moments (like Pollard).
His bad moments were here and there but insignificant to a casual fan (this last season), yet he was canned.
He was canned for the things I saw, not the stats line he showed (as a Dolphins.)
It will be hard to prove; all I know is that he can only be canned because what I observed.
As a casual fan, if I present to you what he did as a Dolphins, you would say, why did them stupid coaches give him the pink slip for.
But they did. I don't know what else to tell you.
They saw what I must have been learning to see... the big picture.
Otherwise, it would have been totally foolish of them to let him go.

As a Texan, he showed much the same, only a liittle worse.
And I will show you.
He was not terrible, because as I've said, our CBs played better than the opponents'.
He's somewhat similar to Pollard. He can make some good plays and then he would give it all up. For a veteran, you can't have that.

Personally, I want a bunch of players who know what they are doing.
Sure, they can get beat here and there because they are not the strongest, nor the fastest.
But as long as they are capable somewhat in that regard, I will take them any time they show me they can do very well in the team concept.

I will play eleven guys against your 9 or 10 guys anytime, even though my guys are slower or smaller, or not as physical.

[dtran04]

The one Allen play that pissed me off was the long pass at the end of the Jets game. Played inside for no reason at all and let the guy catch a bomb at the sidelines. I would hope the coaches didn't tell him to do that. If they did...well, they are fired anyway.

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

That is in the card, my young man (I do like your enthusiasm too).
Some of the things I can show you (if I have time) includes the time he was with the Dolphins.
It will be kinda funny though, the Dolphins time, it looks like he was alright (and pretty good even).
I don't know what to tell you; on the surface, Allen had his good moments (like Pollard).
His bad moments were here and there but insignificant to a casual fan (this last season), yet he was canned.
He was canned for the things I saw, not the stats line he showed (as a Dolphins.)
It will be hard to prove; all I know is that he can only be canned because what I observed.
As a casual fan, if I present to you what he did as a Dolphins, you would say, why did them stupid coaches give him the pink slip for.
But they did. I don't know what else to tell you.
They saw what I must have been learning to see... the big picture.
Otherwise, it would have been totally foolish of them to let him go.

As a Texan, he showed much the same, only a liittle worse.
And I will show you.
He was not terrible, because as I've said, our CBs played better than the opponents'.
He's somewhat similar to Pollard. He can make some good plays and then he would give it all up. For a veteran, you can't have that.

Personally, I want a bunch of players who know what they are doing.
Sure, they can get beat here and there because they are not the strongest, nor the fastest.
But as long as they are capable somewhat in that regard, I will take them any time they show me they can do very well in the team concept.

I will play eleven guys against your 9 or 10 guys anytime, even though my guys are slower or smaller, or not as physical.

I don't understand how you can find evidence that Revis, Aso, etc. could get burned the same way KJ did but have a hard time finding that evidence for Allen. Look at the same games, just on the other side of the field.
I just don't get that bolded part at all.

[EllisUnit]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

The thing is you have shown me nothing.
Trust me when some folks who appreciated what I'm doing while having a little negative feedback about some of the harsh criticism, I just brushed it aside saying that different opinions are good and welcomed. I don't mind it a bit.

But so far, you haven't shown me (like I've shown you as I've been defending Jackson).
Maybe you can show me the hail mary and how Jackson committed PI.
Don't you think for a minute that I haven't studied that play to deadth, as I've studied all the other plays.
(I've done my homework, it's not bragging.)

You keep saying that he was bad, but everytime you brought up the "bad", I gave you the true pictures.
You went left and right and can never prove that he was bad.
If bad means the same as Asomugha, Newman, Mathis, Revis, and other higher draft choices who are veterans then yes, Jackson was bad just the same (only he was bad in his rookie season while the others were bad in their prime.)

Why show you when we ALL saw the same games and the same Kareem Jackson. We all saw him chasing WRs after he got beat, we all saw him fall down, and fall down, and down. Why do i not go so into depth ??? Because i know how bad he was, and i dont have to try to prove that to myself. You ever heard someone try to convince you of something that you know was not correct, i'm seeing a lot of that. Looking for any little thing to prove K. Jac was not as "bad" as we thought, our how he was so unfairly played due to our safeties, our because WRs doing illegal moves on him. Well he was bad and i know it, a lot of people on here know it, thats why i dont take the time to post play by play photos. I have nothing to prove to you our anyone cause like i said i KNOW he was bad.

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by steelbtexan

I get what y'all are saying.

But I didn't see these things happen to Aso/Revis etc...

I didn't see Aso getting burned for TD's and 100+ yds by an undrafted FA. Serge Ahanatou. sp?

As you've proved KJ wasn't totally at fault. Wilson/Pollard stunk too. But I expected a whole lot more out of a highly rated draft pick than KJ gave us.

Obviously the pass defense was historically bad and KJ was a big part of that. I have hopes KJ can greatly improve under the new coaching regime. But He's going to have to prove it on the field.

Go back to page 3 where Aso was in the same boat as Kjackson, only worse.
he was a mile from the play.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/sho...t=83114&page=3

According to your standard, Aso had his A kicked that day.
Check out my pictures at Photobucket.
Aso was kicked by the same two-receiver route (as you and other depicted).
He was kicked by the slant route.
He was kicked as the receiver cut back outside.
He was kicked by the back shoulder fade.
If you watch that game, I don't know how you can throw money at him.

FYI, the title in my album is "Aso or Jackson" something like that.

[The Pencil Neck]

Originally Posted by DocBar

I don't understand how you can find evidence that Revis, Aso, etc. could get burned the same way KJ did but have a hard time finding that evidence for Allen. Look at the same games, just on the other side of the field.
I just don't get that bolded part at all.

One of the plays that 76Texan showed (in exquisite detail) had KJack expecting a little safety help but there was only 10 guys on the field and the safety he was expecting help from was the guy that was missing. So KJ looked really bad but it was because of that lack of help.

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by The Pencil Neck

One of the plays that 76Texan showed (in exquisite detail) had KJack expecting a little safety help but there was only 10 guys on the field and the safety he was expecting help from was the guy that was missing. So KJ looked really bad but it was because of that lack of help.

I understood that and liked it. I was questioning why he would have a hard time finding evidence for Allen playing poorly last season. See post 162. KJ had a bad rookie year, but he wasn't the only one is what I'm getting at. There's more than enough blame to lay at the feet of the entire secondary.

[Corrosion]

Every CB gets beat ..... Thats why they say the position requires a short memory.

The Texans secondary last season was BAD .... Piss Poor but you cant place all the blame on one or two guy's. They all made mistakes. Hell , even when they made a play (Jacksonville - Quin) they came up snake-eyes.


Jackson made mistakes , lots of them (Ive made a hundred jokes about him falling down) .... but there is every reason to believe that he improves going forward - thats the nature of the business and the position.


Either way , we will see the guy on the field quite often next season like it or not .... Even if they sign Aso or whothe ****ever.

[Rey]

Funny how all these bad situations seemed to find kj.

I thunk being cursed is worse than sucking.

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by Rey

Funny how all these bad situations seemed to find kj.

I thunk being cursed is worse than sucking.

That team was nothing short of snake bit last season .....

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by DocBar

I don't understand how you can find evidence that Revis, Aso, etc. could get burned the same way KJ did but have a hard time finding that evidence for Allen. Look at the same games, just on the other side of the field.
I just don't get that bolded part at all.

I never said it's hard "for me" to find evidence.
It's pretty easy in fact, as one is a veteran and one is a rookie.
Don't worry, I'll get to it!

But why is it that it's always me?
This is an honest question.
If you love football then it's on you to really watch and not glossing over Quin's or Allen's mistakes or poor plays.

I pretty much challenged people to compare Jackson and Allen's plays the time Allen got here.

Did anybody show me anything? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I've had the Jets game analysis presented a while ago, for example.
Any challenge? NOOOOOOO!

Sorry, I don't mean to be hostile or anything near that.
I'm not a born Texans, but I know quite a few, and I learn their stubborn spirit for over 35 years now!

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by Rey

Funny how all these bad situations seemed to find kj.

I thunk being cursed is worse than sucking.

See, that's why I mean by generalization.

If you know football, and you love football, go through each of these plays with me, and give me your opinion how, what, and why things can be better.
Don't be a common fan.
You say you're not.
Learn me what I don't know!

[DocBar]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

I never said it's hard "for me" to find evidence.
It's pretty easy in fact, as one is a veteran and one is a rookie.
Don't worry, I'll get to it!

But why is it that it's always me?
This is an honest question.
If you love football then it's on you to really watch and not glossing over Quin's or Allen's mistakes or poor plays.

I pretty much challenged people to compare Jackson and Allen's plays the time Allen got here.

Did anybody show me anything? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I've had the Jets game analysis presented a while ago, for example.
Any challenge? NOOOOOOO!

Sorry, I don't mean to be hostile or anything near that.
I'm not a born Texans, but I know quite a few, and I learn their stubborn spirit for over 35 years now!

I work way too many hours a week to be able to devote as much time to this as you do. I really do enjoy your breakdowns of the games and plays and think you do a good job.
Don't get all butt hurt with me. LOL

[76Texan]

Originally Posted by EllisUnit

Why show you when we ALL saw the same games and the same Kareem Jackson. We all saw him chasing WRs after he got beat, we all saw him fall down, and fall down, and down. Why do i not go so into depth ??? Because i know how bad he was, and i dont have to try to prove that to myself. You ever heard someone try to convince you of something that you know was not correct, i'm seeing a lot of that. Looking for any little thing to prove K. Jac was not as "bad" as we thought, our how he was so unfairly played due to our safeties, our because WRs doing illegal moves on him. Well he was bad and i know it, a lot of people on here know it, thats why i dont take the time to post play by play photos. I have nothing to prove to you our anyone cause like i said i KNOW he was bad.

Until you bring something, have a good day!

When you don't have nothing to prove, you don't need to be engaging in any debate. Sorry, it is how it is!

[Corrosion]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

Until you bring something, have a good day!

When you don't have nothing to prove, you don't need to be engaging in any debate. Sorry, it is how it is!

76 You been hangin out in the NSZ ?

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Rey

Funny how all these bad situations seemed to find kj.

I thunk being cursed is worse than sucking.

If we collectively scrutinized our other corners, you would find just as many.

If we collectively scrutinized Kyle Wilson or Antonio Cromartie, you'll find just as many.

There are several reasons why some of us are hung up on KJac, some are good, some are bad...... but we're focused on him none-the-less & every little thing he does is big news.

We're talking about Jason Allen like he should be a pro-bowler....... that should be enough to warn us that something ain't right... slow down.... rethink the whole situation.

There are somethings every corner should be able to do. There are somethings that no corner can be expected to do.

We know about his speed issue.... no one is denying that.
We know about his falling down....

In this thread, 76 has shown us how other teams played a common 2 receiver route... AJ whupped their asses... these aren't Texans' starters, these are bonafide would-be-starters on other teams. But it is an impossible route for a CB to cover on his own. With the other players out of position it is easy to see why some uninformed critics would lay the blame solely at the feet of the CB. Then you throw in the television production crews, who will sensationalize grass growing if they could....... & you've got fans watching KJac getting burned again & again & again. (Even though it wasn't KJac who got burned).

[Rey]

Originally Posted by 76Texan

See, that's why I mean by generalization.

If you know football, and you love football, go through each of these plays with me, and give me your opinion how, what, and why things can be better.
Don't be a common fan.
You say you're not.
Learn me what I don't know!

I will as soon as I'm off my phone and on the computer.

What I think you should do though is look at the plays where Kareem screwed up.

All corners get beat or "appear to get beat".

That's why you have to have a short memory at the position. So yeah, you can point out plays where aso got beat or revis got schooled. Difference is those guys make their safeties job easier. Kjax doesn't. Even if you're expecting help that doesn't mean you let the wr do what ever they want. You still should be in playmaking distance. Sometimes the safeties will bite on other things. Tis the nature of being a safety.

The difference between the good corners and the ****ty ones is that the good ones have the ability to atleast occasionally bail out bad play from others around them.

If you can only perform when the safeties are exactly where they should be, then you're not that good.

If you seem to screw up Everytime a safety is out of position then you are too handicapped to play the position. It's football. People around you are going to mess up.


Funny how other corners didn't find themselves in the same positions kj was in even though they were playing in the same defense and often times against better receivers.

Kjs footwork was awful. Once guys got past him he had no make up speed. He didn't make plays on the field. He wasn't strong at the Los.

I will go back and look at the plays but if you want to talk football we can talk about his timid demeanor in coverage and his ****ty techniques.

I get he was a rookie, but he looked lost. Not very instinctual.

It looked like at times like he had no preparation throughout the week and was just told to react to whatever route was run. You see other corners occasionally jump routes because they've seen it on film, and have a feeling it's about to be run. They key off something. Jackson was all reactionary with poor technique.

It's fine too look at plays and say he should have had help, but you have to take into account the total picture. You're a corner you're going to get beat. My coach used to tell the DBS that all the time. But then he'd follow it up with "at least be in position to tackle the guy or slow him down".

Getting beat doesn't mean you have to give up super long td's or huge chunks of yardage.

What exactly did Kareem do to make the safeties job easier?

[Rey]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

it is an impossible route for a CB to cover on his own. With the other players out of position it is easy to see why some uninformed critics would lay the blame solely at the feet of the CB. Then you throw in the television production crews, who will sensationalize grass growing if they could....... & you've got fans watching KJac getting burned again & again & again. (Even though it wasn't KJac who got burned).

Who has laid blame solely on anyone?

The safeties aren't even here anymore.

I've yet to see anyone defend the safeties and say kjax made them look worse than what they were. Even though if you think about it logically that was probably the case.

Wilson wasnt a world beater but he looked a lot better when dunta, reeves, and Quinn were at corner. Pollard had a very good season the year before.

Funny how they both fell off and looked like **** when the kiddie corners took the field.

Last year though, it was a collective effort of suckiness from all parties involved.

The safeties weren't good enough to mask the cb's deficiencies and the corners weren't good enough to mask the safeties miscues.

It's a two way street back there in coverage. Sometimes one or the other will mess up. Sometimes both. But the question is do you have enough talent back there to balance things out.

We did not. The coaching was poor, the safeties were poor and yes despite the many cries to the contrary in this thread Kareem Jackson was poor.

Pointing out someone elses mistake is not evidence that Jackson actually played well. All that means is that he us not talented enough to cover up others mistakes.

Also, this two receiver route you guys are talking about is not impossible to cover. Harder? Maybe. "impossible to cover". . . No.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Rey

Pointing out someone elses mistake is not evidence that Jackson actually played well. All that means is that he us not talented enough to cover up others mistakes.

Also, this two receiver route you guys are talking about is not impossible to cover. Harder? Maybe. "impossible to cover". . . No.

Just about all of the photos in this thread have the offense running the same 2 receiver route. All of them show corners, more experienced than KJac in the same position. Including Aso, no position to make a play.

No one is talking about how bad those corners are. KJac is getting scrutinized here for doing the same thing others have done.

Dunta sucked flat out. I dont' believe he would have helped this team one bit in 2010. I don't think he should have been starting in 2009.