Offensive Line Graded out with One Sack - Page 3 - Houston Texans Message Board & Forum

texan279 · 09-12-2005

Quote:

Exactly.. I can't remember a time when Carr had time to actually step up in the pocket.

He did several times, and two of the times he did have time in the pocket he threw INT's...

**Lucky** · 09-12-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ledzeppelin269

...But that doesn't explain making dumb decisions when he has time. (Like the triple-coverage gift that fell from the sky into the safety's hands)

That wasn't a bad decision, it was a bad throw. AJ had beaten the corner & safety to the post. If Carr had put the ball on the money, it would have been six (or AJ would have dropped it). The pass drifted to the middle and Vincent was there. Good decision, sorry throw.

Of course Carr did hit Bradford on a perfect 30 yard go on a 3rd & 17. Only to see the ball slip right between Corey's fingers. The Bills defense gives up very few big plays. And when the opportunities were there, the Texans screwed them up.

By the time the score was 12-0, the Texans had only run 3 pass plays. One a short pass to Davis, the next a sack on a simple stunt that confused Chester Pitts, then a busted play where Chris Kelsey forced Carr out of the pocket (Wade tackled him), Pitts & McKinney ran downfield to block, and forced a pass rather than just stepping out of bounds. And that play was another example of AJ not coming back to the ball (Troy Vincent did). I would think the coaching staff has gone over these mistakes many times before. These players aren't listening to them

bckey · 09-12-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by texan0305

ya i just heard the weekly radio show also, it's good to see texans fans coming through on the air with powder puff questions, no fan really sounded concerned or anything, well capers again stated only one sac was attributed to the line so i guess they think the line did a good job lol this is so crazy i couldn't believe the things he was saying oh well.....

You can bet those calls were well screened.

ledzeppelin229 · 09-12-2005

Maybe this is a non-issue, but could part of the lines problem be having two coaches? I think Pendry coaches the tackles and Steve Marshall the center/guards (or the other way around). I don't really know anything about line coaching.

Wolf · 09-12-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lucky

That wasn't a bad decision, it was a bad throw. AJ had beaten the corner & safety to the post. If Carr had put the ball on the money, it would have been six (or AJ would have dropped it). The pass drifted to the middle and Vincent was there. Good decision, sorry throw.

Of course Carr did hit Bradford on a perfect 30 yard go on a 3rd & 17. Only to see the ball slip right between Corey's fingers. The Bills defense gives up very few big plays. And when the opportunities were there, the Texans screwed them up.

By the time the score was 12-0, the Texans had only run 3 pass plays. One a short pass to Davis, the next a sack on a simple stunt that confused Chester Pitts, then a busted play where Chris Kelsey forced Carr out of the pocket (Wade tackled him), Pitts & McKinney ran downfield to block, and forced a pass rather than just stepping out of bounds. And that play was another example of AJ not coming back to the ball (Troy Vincent did). I would think the coaching staff has gone over these mistakes many times before. These players aren't listening to them

I agree with that about Vincent.. but after the game Vincent said Carr does NOT look off his receivers which could be the differenct between 6 and an INT.

Also if the pass about Bradford is the one I am thinking about.. Bradford got nailed as it was getting to his hands.

if those are right, it would have been nice to get those catches

texan279 · 09-12-2005

Am I mistaken or did Carr hang that pass up like a hail mary? If he wants to make that completion he has to fire it in there and thread the needle, not throw it up into double coverage and give another defender time to get there and pray that AJ catches it in triple coverage...

Wolf · 09-12-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by texan279

Am I mistaken or did Carr hang that pass up like a hail mary? If he wants to make that completion he has to fire it in there and thread the needle, not throw it up into double coverage and give another defender time to get there and pray that AJ catches it in triple coverage...

if they are the plays I think both were high arching.. I think Carr was just trying to let the WR run under it.. Bradfords was a little underthrown and AJ's well it was there it was just triple coverage. a little pump fake to the outside would have been nice or something like that to freeze the safety

**Vinny** · 09-12-2005

Carr throws a poor deep ball. That is just one example of many. To me it looked like he is trying to get more air under the ball, but he isn't good at it.

Exascor · 09-12-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny

Carr throws a poor deep ball. That is just one example of many. To me it looked like he is trying to get more air under the ball, but he isn't good at it.

I'd agree with that. His deep balls have always been bullets in the past. This time it looked better but wasn't accurate. Not to mention thrown into coverage.

**Runner** · 09-12-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny

Riley graded out quite well when asked directly.

I think Capers would have said any individual graded out well - he's not one for publicly hanging a player.

**Vinny** · 09-12-2005

I perceive Capers as honest and straight forward. You can say what you want about Dom Capers but he is a straight-up honest man. I think he would have said that Riley would have had to work on technique or something...he didn't hesitate, so I take him at face value.

**Runner** · 09-12-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny

I perceive Capers as honest and straight forward. You can say what you want about Dom Capers but he is a straight-up honest man. I think he would have said that Riley would have had to work on technique or something...he didn't hesitate, so I take him at face value.

I wasn't implying he was lying. I meant he had his players' back and wouldn't bad mouth them in the media like a Parcells.

Which is a good trait of Capers.

Wolf · 09-12-2005

Tactfullness is Capers

nunusguy · 09-12-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny

I perceive Capers as honest and straight forward.

Actually, I perceive Capers as guy who never saw a direct question he didn't like to maneuver around and leave with a positive slant or spin. Truth is, he's
damn good at it to the point of being as slick as some politicians. I would have appreciated the brutal simplicity of a Pacells type answer about yesterday - something along the lines of "we stunk up the place".

rockabilly · 09-12-2005

I bet if the word "execute" didn't exist, When asked to comment Caper's head would explode.

**ArlingtonTexan** · 09-12-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockabilly

I bet if the word "execute" didn't exist, When asked to comment Caper's head would explode.

His head is probably about to explode from saying "execute" 1,000 times a week only to have his team not "execute"

**ArlingtonTexan** · 09-12-2005

I am actually happy to see this being discussed. As I have debated for the better part of a year, the Texans have a below average line, but Carr (and the other skill people), don't much to help the situation. Really good Qb still make plays with poor OLs.

**eriadoc** · 09-12-2005

Regarding the O-line blocking - I believe what Capers is saying is true. The sacks were not necessarily on the O-line. Many of the ten or so pressures probably were. On the whole, none of the blocking was adequate on Sunday. People focus on sacks because it's a measurable statistic. The pressures cause just as many problems. Carr is to blame for at least one sack that I can think of, but the underlying problem is really why I have been saying that the coaching staff deserves to be cut. It really is no different than training any animal - you hit it enough and it will cower whenever it gets close to you. You harass and sack a QB enough and he will become gun shy, develop happy feet, and never develop the mental facets that are required to play QB in the NFL. The foundation of this offense is broken and Carr may well be ruined for good. I place the blame of that on the coaching staff.

Regarding the QB spy question - from watching the game (can't bear to review the Tivo, sorry), I commented at the time about that. However, it wasn't really a QB spy. It was a DD spy. Posey was spying on the DD dumpoff for much of the game. So yeah, when there's a spy on the QB, something is usually open (usually the flats or the TE). On this day, however, Posey moved with DD pretty well and we have no TEs (although Bruener and Murphy each caught one, IIRC).

Vinny, when you review the tape, see if I am accurate in my recollection. Usually I watch a game the first time with a slightly less critical eye for detail, whereas when I watch the Tivo, I rewind and review for hours. My wife hates that, hehe.

Johnny Utah · 09-12-2005

The Oline only accounted for one sack. What I would like to know is how many QB pressures the Oline accounted for? The offensive line, QB, WR's, RBs, and coaching staff all stunk it up.

dalemurphy · 09-13-2005

Everything is being positioned, IMO, for Palmer to be fired after the Pittsburgh game and for Pendry to be promoted to OC... After all, if most of the problems with pressure/sacks are blown assignments by backs, receivers, qb- then that responsibility falls mostly on Palmer's shoulders. And, if the Oline is at least technically doing it's job then it is to Pendry's credit.

How much money would it take to get Ron Jaworski to come here as the QB coach? We're going to need one when Palmer gets fired.

09-12-2005	#46
texan279 Hall of Fame Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Rosenberg TX Age: 34 Posts: 5,560 Rep Power: 538	Am I mistaken or did Carr hang that pass up like a hail mary? If he wants to make that completion he has to fire it in there and thread the needle, not throw it up into double coverage and give another defender time to get there and pray that AJ catches it in triple coverage... __________________ Fire It Up, Let the engines roll, It's time to burn it down

09-12-2005	#48
Vinny shiny happy fan Join Date: Apr 2004 Age: 49 Posts: 20,714 Rep Power: 55750	Carr throws a poor deep ball. That is just one example of many. To me it looked like he is trying to get more air under the ball, but he isn't good at it. __________________ http://twitter.com/#!/TexansTalk "A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves" - Edward R. Murrow

09-12-2005	#51
Vinny shiny happy fan Join Date: Apr 2004 Age: 49 Posts: 20,714 Rep Power: 55750	I perceive Capers as honest and straight forward. You can say what you want about Dom Capers but he is a straight-up honest man. I think he would have said that Riley would have had to work on technique or something...he didn't hesitate, so I take him at face value. __________________ http://twitter.com/#!/TexansTalk "A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves" - Edward R. Murrow

09-12-2005	#53
Wolf 100% Texan Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kerrville Age: 43 Posts: 35,817 Rep Power: 40226	Tactfullness is Capers __________________ People who say that they don't know what to get me for my birthday have obviously never been to a liquor store

09-12-2005	#58
eriadoc Texan-American Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 15,316 Rep Power: 69440	Regarding the O-line blocking - I believe what Capers is saying is true. The sacks were not necessarily on the O-line. Many of the ten or so pressures probably were. On the whole, none of the blocking was adequate on Sunday. People focus on sacks because it's a measurable statistic. The pressures cause just as many problems. Carr is to blame for at least one sack that I can think of, but the underlying problem is really why I have been saying that the coaching staff deserves to be cut. It really is no different than training any animal - you hit it enough and it will cower whenever it gets close to you. You harass and sack a QB enough and he will become gun shy, develop happy feet, and never develop the mental facets that are required to play QB in the NFL. The foundation of this offense is broken and Carr may well be ruined for good. I place the blame of that on the coaching staff. Regarding the QB spy question - from watching the game (can't bear to review the Tivo, sorry), I commented at the time about that. However, it wasn't really a QB spy. It was a DD spy. Posey was spying on the DD dumpoff for much of the game. So yeah, when there's a spy on the QB, something is usually open (usually the flats or the TE). On this day, however, Posey moved with DD pretty well and we have no TEs (although Bruener and Murphy each caught one, IIRC). Vinny, when you review the tape, see if I am accurate in my recollection. Usually I watch a game the first time with a slightly less critical eye for detail, whereas when I watch the Tivo, I rewind and review for hours. My wife hates that, hehe. Last edited by eriadoc; 09-12-2005 at 11:14 PM.

09-12-2005	#55
rockabilly Veteran Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Austin, TX Age: 29 Posts: 407 Rep Power: 30	I bet if the word "execute" didn't exist, When asked to comment Caper's head would explode.

09-12-2005	#57
ArlingtonTexan Moderator Join Date: May 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 5,258 Rep Power: 19442	I am actually happy to see this being discussed. As I have debated for the better part of a year, the Texans have a below average line, but Carr (and the other skill people), don't much to help the situation. Really good Qb still make plays with poor OLs.

09-12-2005	#59
Johnny Utah All Pro Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 551 Rep Power: 10	The Oline only accounted for one sack. What I would like to know is how many QB pressures the Oline accounted for? The offensive line, QB, WR's, RBs, and coaching staff all stunk it up.

09-13-2005	#60
dalemurphy Hall of Fame Join Date: May 2004 Location: Austin Section: Bullpen/ 636 Age: 39 Posts: 5,165 Rep Power: 10996	Everything is being positioned, IMO, for Palmer to be fired after the Pittsburgh game and for Pendry to be promoted to OC... After all, if most of the problems with pressure/sacks are blown assignments by backs, receivers, qb- then that responsibility falls mostly on Palmer's shoulders. And, if the Oline is at least technically doing it's job then it is to Pendry's credit. How much money would it take to get Ron Jaworski to come here as the QB coach? We're going to need one when Palmer gets fired.

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