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Old 06-15-2011   #41
Double Barrel
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Default Re: Worst moments in Texans franchise history

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Originally Posted by Brando View Post
Remember we were able to get Seth Payne and Gary Walker out of that deal. I think because we had a deal with Jacksonville, iirc. But spot on with #2. Heck I think Dwight Freeney was in that draft. I would have taken him #1 overall instead of who we drafted.
That was a much better deal for the Jaguars because they were in salary-cap hell. Good ol' Casserly - helping a division rival while taking old, crusty players off their hands at the same time.
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Old 06-15-2011   #42
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Default Re: Worst moments in Texans franchise history

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
The impromptu press conference McNair gave on the practice field the week following the OT loss to the Ravens. Where he talks about the other owners consoling him and saying how close the Texans are. "We're on the right track." I don't know if it is a lie in an attempt to keep the fans in tow, or if McNair really believes this horsecrap. Either way, it made me sick to my stomach.
Agreed here. The reason why this is so bad is because right then and there you realize that there was not going to be meaningful change and that he was content with what was going on. When there is no horizon to look out on because someone doesn't "get it" then you are screwed.
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Old 06-15-2011   #43
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Default Re: Worst moments in Texans franchise history

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Originally Posted by Lucky View Post
The impromptu press conference McNair gave on the practice field the week following the OT loss to the Ravens. Where he talks about the other owners consoling him and saying how close the Texans are. "We're on the right track." I don't know if it is a lie in an attempt to keep the fans in tow, or if McNair really believes this horsecrap. Either way, it made me sick to my stomach.
It's like being on the Titanic and admiring that beautiful iceberg, and then start re-arranging deck chairs...
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Old 06-15-2011   #44
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Default Re: Worst moments in Texans franchise history

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Originally Posted by Showtime100 View Post
The 2011 lockout
Shit, that could be a highlite.

Carr throwing for negative yards vs Oakland. Carr having the haircut saga. Carr. Carr. Carr. Joe Pendry being OC. Watching the Colts kill the Texans on MNF last year because Kubiak didn't want to run the freaking ball
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Old 06-15-2011   #45
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Default Re: Worst moments in Texans franchise history

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Originally Posted by BigBull17 View Post
Shit, that could be a highlite.

HWWNBM throwing for negative yards vs Oakland. HWWNBM having the haircut saga. HWWNBM. HWWNBM. HWWNBM. Joe Pendry being OC. Watching the Colts kill the Texans on MNF last year because Kubiak didn't want to run the freaking ball
Edited - we dont use that other word around here. We refer to "Him" as "He Who Will Not Be Mentioned"
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Old 06-15-2011   #46
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Default Re: Worst moments in Texans franchise history

The negative yards vs. Oakland thing is actually one of the highlights for me. We won that game despite him.
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Old 06-15-2011   #47
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Default Re: Worst moments in Texans franchise history

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Originally Posted by Corrosion View Post
#1 was the first personel move ever .... Taking a guy in Boselli who would never play a down for the team in the expansion draft.
Boselli was cleared by an independent Doc hired by the NFL. Willie Roaf was not and the NFL forced him to be withdrawn from the expansion draft. He was then traded and went on to something like 5 straight pro-bowls. Yeah it sucked for the Texans but I just can't see blaming them.

Oh and the shoulder that kept him from playing was not the shoulder he injured in football. It was his opposite shoulder the Hags Doc offered to "clean out for you while I'm in there."

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Originally Posted by Brando View Post
Remember we were able to get Seth Payne and Gary Walker out of that deal. I think because we had a deal with Jacksonville, iirc. But spot on with #2. Heck I think Dwight Freeney was in that draft. I would have taken him #1 overall instead of who we drafted.
Freeney was not part of the options - Link

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
That was a much better deal for the Jaguars because they were in salary-cap hell. Good ol' Casserly - helping a division rival while taking old, crusty players off their hands at the same time.
This seems like just retroactive negativity. Gary Walker was a pro-bowler in Houston not some over the hill guy. Yeah he wore out but how do you predict turf toe in someone who has no history of it? Payne was a damn good player. Wish we had him now and I would be more optimistic. I was in New Orleans for the game that ended his career. Everyone is all worried about having a lardass in the middle and again I wish we had 2002 Payne - dude didn't get knocked off the line ever.
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Old 06-15-2011   #48
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Default Re: Worst moments in Texans franchise history

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
This seems like just retroactive negativity. Gary Walker was a pro-bowler in Houston not some over the hill guy. Yeah he wore out but how do you predict turf toe in someone who has no history of it? Payne was a damn good player. Wish we had him now and I would be more optimistic. I was in New Orleans for the game that ended his career. Everyone is all worried about having a lardass in the middle and again I wish we had 2002 Payne - dude didn't get knocked off the line ever.
It's not "retroactive negativity". It's just history.

I posted the following back in 2005, which is inclusive of articles from 2002. The deal was made, confirmed by Casserly, and it is what it is.

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
From Football Digest, Oct, 2002:

Quote:
For the Jaguars, the expansion draft served as a get-out-of-salary-cap-jail-free card. The salaries of players taken in the expansion draft are wiped from the books of the teams that lose them. By allowing Houston to select Boselli, Payne, and Walker, the Jaguars erased $17 million from their payroll. But that was the only positive to come out of it, especially concerning Boselli. The Jaguars had hoped he'd spend his entire career in Jacksonville, but they felt they had to let him go for the long-term good of the franchise.

"It was the most distasteful decision I've ever had to make with this franchise," Jaguars owner Wayne Weaver says. "Obviously, the last player I'd want to put [on the expansion list] is Tony Boselli. But he gave us the best chance of trying to solve the salary cap problem."
And from SportingNews.com - July 27, 2003

Quote:
But this is what a lot of people don't know: The Texans cut a deal with the Jaguars before the draft, promising to take Boselli only if the Jaguars left defensive linemen Gary Walker and Seth Payne exposed. In essence, Boselli was a “throw-in” the Texans had to take in order to get Walker, who has played in the last two Pro Bowls, and Payne. . . .
Still looking for something "official" from either front office to confirm the second story, but it seems pretty reasonable if lot of analysts mention the deal in stories.


****edit: Following added:

from Big on Sports:

Quote:
Jacksonville, which entered the expansion draft more than $27 million over the $71.8 million salary cap, realized nearly $15 million in cap relief thanks to Houston's selections of Boselli ($6,883,332 cap figure for '02) and starting defensive tackles Gary Walker ($5,250,000) and Seth Payne ($2,775,000). While it will be nearly impossible for Jacksonville's Tom Coughlin to replace the caliber of these three players, he was able to reduce his cap deficit to a more manageable $12 million.

"We certainly didn't want to lose Tony Boselli or our two starting defensive tackles," said Coughlin. "But this was a chance to get ourselves out of a hole."

*****edit 1.2 - added:

from sportsillustrated.com - Friday July 18, 2003

Quote:
The Texans took Boselli in the 2002 expansion draft in an agreement between the two teams that allowed Houston to take defensive linemen Seth Payne and Gary Walker.

<snip>

Texans general manager Charley Casserly said he believes the deal ultimately will benefit the team despite the $6 million salary cap hit the franchise must endure this season.

"In order to get those two [Payne and Walker] you had to take the risk on Boselli. That was the deal," Casserly said.
So there you have it. It was a deal officially confirmed by the Texans GM.
And as far as Boselli is concerned, Casserly has stated that they knew it was 50/50 chance - at best - that he'd ever play for us. That radio interview was heard by other Texans fans and documented in the forum, as well. Hell, Casserly said right there above: "you had to take the risk on Boselli" Why was it a risk if the almighty "independent Doc hired by the NFL" cleared him??

Don't be so quick to label folks negative when the proof of history indicates otherwise. Casserly was a bone-headed GM, and that is clearly supported by the fact that the Houston Texans were the last NFL team he ever worked for.

There are two avenues to build expansion teams, and Capers' history with the Panthers was too stock up on long-in-the-tooth players instead of going with youth. It worked for a short while in Carolina, but obviously failed in Houston.

It is not negative to admit the history of crappy decisions with this franchise. They far outweigh the positive ones.
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Old 06-15-2011   #49
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Default Re: Worst moments in Texans franchise history

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Originally Posted by Double Barrel View Post
It's not "retroactive negativity". It's just history.

I posted the following back in 2005, which is inclusive of articles from 2002. The deal was made, confirmed by Casserly, and it is what it is.
I didn't dispute the cap ramifications.

Quote:
It is not negative to admit the history of crappy decisions with this franchise. They far outweigh the positive ones.
I think it is when you start characterizing Payne and Walker as old crusty players (not sure if you were throwing Boselli into this who was not old at all and appeared headed to the hall of fame). Both were very good players and in their primes when we got them. Yes there were cap ramifications but we had an open cap. So to reiterate, my dispute is with calling Walker and Payne bad decisions. Both were very good players who ended up with unfortunate injuries. That doesn't equate to a bad decision. Yesterday or the day before Texecutioner was explaining how it wouldn't be a bad decision to make Aso the highest paid defensive player in the league and then he has an injury so the money is wasted. That's my point.
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Old 06-15-2011   #50
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Default Re: Worst moments in Texans franchise history

Well, "old and crusty" is hyperbole when compared to building with youth.

As far as bad decisions, I think any time that you help a division rival out of self-imposed cap problems, it's not a smart decision from a competition perspective. I've always thought it was weird, but I'm just a mere fan. The experts were supposed to be...well...experts.

Hindsight might be 20/20, but that's only because you get the benefit of seeing all the facts that were hidden while it was happening.

I liked Walker and Payne, so I'm not downing them. But the decision to go with vets on the defense, which indicates a win now mentality, was undermined by drafting a small school rookie QB to start on offense (which would appear to be a youth movement) behind an unproven line. It's just convoluted GM/HC decisions that seemed to lack a coherent long-term gameplan.
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Old 06-15-2011   #51
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Default Re: Worst moments in Texans franchise history

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Boselli was cleared by an independent Doc hired by the NFL. Willie Roaf was not and the NFL forced him to be withdrawn from the expansion draft. He was then traded and went on to something like 5 straight pro-bowls. Yeah it sucked for the Texans but I just can't see blaming them.

Oh and the shoulder that kept him from playing was not the shoulder he injured in football. It was his opposite shoulder the Hags Doc offered to "clean out for you while I'm in there."



Freeney was not part of the options - Link



This seems like just retroactive negativity. Gary Walker was a pro-bowler in Houston not some over the hill guy. Yeah he wore out but how do you predict turf toe in someone who has no history of it? Payne was a damn good player. Wish we had him now and I would be more optimistic. I was in New Orleans for the game that ended his career. Everyone is all worried about having a lardass in the middle and again I wish we had 2002 Payne - dude didn't get knocked off the line ever.
I know what you mean....and I too would love to have him in the middle. He wasn't really a lardass at 6'4" and 303, but he was strong as heck and wiley as a fox.
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Old 06-16-2011   #52
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Default Re: Worst moments in Texans franchise history

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Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Boselli was cleared by an independent Doc hired by the NFL. Willie Roaf was not and the NFL forced him to be withdrawn from the expansion draft. He was then traded and went on to something like 5 straight pro-bowls. Yeah it sucked for the Texans but I just can't see blaming them.

Oh and the shoulder that kept him from playing was not the shoulder he injured in football. It was his opposite shoulder the Hags Doc offered to "clean out for you while I'm in there."



Freeney was not part of the options - Link

I didn't say he was. Looking BACK(hindsight and all that) on the draft Freeney would have been the better option other than Peppers.
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Old 06-16-2011   #53
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Default Re: Worst moments in Texans franchise history

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Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger View Post
I know what you mean....and I too would love to have him in the middle. He wasn't really a lardass at 6'4" and 303, but he was strong as heck and wiley as a fox.
That was the point I was making. Payne wasn't a lardass at all but he was a damn good NT.
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Old 06-16-2011   #54
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Default Re: Worst moments in Texans franchise history

remember that time Da Bills came to our House and beat us

Or that time Da jets Capers era came to our house and beat us i think some old vet QB beat us one that just came off the couch weeks pior
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Old 06-26-2011   #55
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Default Re: Worst moments in Texans franchise history

Signing David Carr #1 and Signing Bosselli #2 worst moments.
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Old 06-26-2011   #56
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Default Re: Worst moments in Texans franchise history

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That was the point I was making. Payne wasn't a lardass at all but he was a damn good NT.
Sure would be nice to have a healthy Payne on the current roster .....
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Old 06-26-2011   #57
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Default Re: Worst moments in Texans franchise history

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Sure would be nice to have a healthy Payne on the current roster .....
True. We don't have a healthy Payne and our defense has been a pain that's kept us from being a playoff team.
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