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Old 05-01-2011   #21
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Default Re: Observations after the Draft

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
I think I have a few observations I'd like to stick in here:
  • I am not a fan of them not grabbing somebody who could contribute to the return game in a big way as well as possibly contribute at secondary or WR. I don't think ST's did any favors for the rest of the team last year
I mostly agree with your take except for this.

Keo is this pick. I think we've seen an attempt for someone to take over PR duties from Jacoby and I feel either Holliday or Keo can step up into that role. He also can contribute on goal-line situations at the start as an in the box type safety.

Carmichael also has the ability, like Keo, to contribute on special teams.
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Old 05-01-2011   #22
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Default Re: Observations after the Draft

I believe (and I say this from a position of not being happy that Wade Phillips was hired, not being happy about Gary Kubiak & Rick Smith getting one more year, and not believing for a moment that anything with the Houston Texans has truly changed) that in this draft the biggest difference from previous drafts was that the person deciding who we selected on the defensive side of the ball actually knew what he was looking for.

In previous Kubiak/Smith regime drafts I think the defensive coordinator had as much input into who we chose (on defensive picks) as anyone in the room if not more. That's regardless of the fact that both of those stooges couldn't run an entire defense to save their lives. Richard Smith and Frank Bush are probably guys who top out at "Position Coach" and have no business being given DC responsibilities much less having input in a draft.

I don't think that has changed. In fact it's even more true today. We just have a better DC making those decisions and I think Bob has told everyone else that it's Wade's call.

If you look at the Texans drafts since Kubiak arrived we've almost been frantic to fix the defense. Year after year we have taken steps to remedy this consistently shitty unit with little to show for the draft picks or the coaching changes.

I don't think Gary was sitting in a corner pouting during this draft. I think he clearly knows that his boss (and this goes for Rick Smith as well) has hired a man (Wade) who is not working for either Gary or Rick and whose job is to fix the one thing that Gary and Rick have repeatedly proven they know nothing about (Defense).

I'm sure Gary knew that the sole goal of this years draft (and most likely this years free agency if it happens and if we're active in it) was fixing the defense. I'm sure he knew that he would only have cursory input into the decisions. Wade isn't going to rub anybody's nose into the situation. At the end of the day you have to look at what everyone is saying and how things went and conclude that nobody was arguing because nobody in the room was stupid enough to think they were going to win an argument about a defensive player with Wade Phillips. You also have to conclude I think that this is because Bob McNair has made it clear that Wade is the DC and he's in charge where the defense is concerned.

This wasn't a big happy draft room because they all just miraculously happen to think the same things about all the same players and it wasn't a big happy draft room because Wade is captain of the debate team. It was a big happy draft room because Bob McNair willed it to be so and told everyone what their roles were. Think about this. If Bob McNair hired Wade Phillips to fix his defense and then let Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith have enough input into it to override anything Wade wanted then he'd be even stupider than any of us have even hinted at him being.

And personally I think he's the stupidest owner in the NFL so that's quite a reach. I don't even think he's dumb enough to let the 5 year failures keep picking defenders after bringing in Wade Phillips.

Wade chose these guys. Gary nodded, smiled, and STFU if he didn't like it.

Won't matter. Texans will suck this year again in some new previously unforeseen way and then Wade will get the HC job in January.
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Old 05-02-2011   #23
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Default Re: Observations after the Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
I am not a fan of them not grabbing somebody who could contribute to the return game in a big way as well as possibly contribute at secondary or WR. I don't think ST's did any favors for the rest of the team last year besides not blowing FG's.
Shiloh Keo is a punt returner. If we lose Jacoby, Keo could step into that position immediately. IIRC, he's also a gunner and has had some blocks.

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
I think one of the rookie DB's will snatch up the nickel spot.
Harris is really good at the nickel and spent a lot of time there in college. I expect him to be the immediate nickel CB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
I think TJ Yates will be the next JDB, who was the next Alex Brink who was the next Jared Zebransky.
Well, Zabransky was an UDFA and didn't even make the final squad. Brink was a 7th rounder. I'm hoping for a lot more out of Yates even though I'm hoping we only see him in the preseason and later in the season when we're resting our starters before the playoffs or when we're blowing someone out so bad we decide to get him some experience.
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Old 05-02-2011   #24
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Default Re: Observations after the Draft

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Originally Posted by Hervoyel View Post
I believe (and I say this from a position of not being happy that Wade Phillips was hired, not being happy about Gary Kubiak & Rick Smith getting one more year, and not believing for a moment that anything with the Houston Texans has truly changed) that in this draft the biggest difference from previous drafts was that the person deciding who we selected on the defensive side of the ball actually knew what he was looking for.

In previous Kubiak/Smith regime drafts I think the defensive coordinator had as much input into who we chose (on defensive picks) as anyone in the room if not more. That's regardless of the fact that both of those stooges couldn't run an entire defense to save their lives. Richard Smith and Frank Bush are probably guys who top out at "Position Coach" and have no business being given DC responsibilities much less having input in a draft.

I don't think that has changed. In fact it's even more true today. We just have a better DC making those decisions and I think Bob has told everyone else that it's Wade's call.

If you look at the Texans drafts since Kubiak arrived we've almost been frantic to fix the defense. Year after year we have taken steps to remedy this consistently shitty unit with little to show for the draft picks or the coaching changes.

I don't think Gary was sitting in a corner pouting during this draft. I think he clearly knows that his boss (and this goes for Rick Smith as well) has hired a man (Wade) who is not working for either Gary or Rick and whose job is to fix the one thing that Gary and Rick have repeatedly proven they know nothing about (Defense).

I'm sure Gary knew that the sole goal of this years draft (and most likely this years free agency if it happens and if we're active in it) was fixing the defense. I'm sure he knew that he would only have cursory input into the decisions. Wade isn't going to rub anybody's nose into the situation. At the end of the day you have to look at what everyone is saying and how things went and conclude that nobody was arguing because nobody in the room was stupid enough to think they were going to win an argument about a defensive player with Wade Phillips. You also have to conclude I think that this is because Bob McNair has made it clear that Wade is the DC and he's in charge where the defense is concerned.

This wasn't a big happy draft room because they all just miraculously happen to think the same things about all the same players and it wasn't a big happy draft room because Wade is captain of the debate team. It was a big happy draft room because Bob McNair willed it to be so and told everyone what their roles were. Think about this. If Bob McNair hired Wade Phillips to fix his defense and then let Gary Kubiak and Rick Smith have enough input into it to override anything Wade wanted then he'd be even stupider than any of us have even hinted at him being.

And personally I think he's the stupidest owner in the NFL so that's quite a reach. I don't even think he's dumb enough to let the 5 year failures keep picking defenders after bringing in Wade Phillips.

Wade chose these guys. Gary nodded, smiled, and STFU if he didn't like it.

Won't matter. Texans will suck this year again in some new previously unforeseen way and then Wade will get the HC job in January.
That's a wrap!

You said everything I would have said. You said a lot of things I have already said about the draft and how it went down.

There is that "puncher's chance" that Gary Kubiak has, strictly because of Wade Phillips' presence...but I think the odds are pretty heavy that you're right when you say Wade Phillips will be the new head coach of the Texans.
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Old 05-02-2011   #25
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Default Re: Observations after the Draft

I agree with the side that says that the head scratching defensive picks from previous drafts were at least partly because of the input of the defensive staff and especially the defensive coordinators.

I don't think the Gary and Rick were sitting there shoving defensive players down Bush and Smith's throats.

I think that Rick and the scouts were preparing the film and the lists of players and giving those to the defensive coaches to look over. I think that Bush and Smith and the defensive coaches were looking at the lists and looking at the film and they were saying, "These are the guys we need to be successful." And Gary and Rick were taking that, integrating it with the offensive players/needs and information from the offensive coaches, and coming up with the draft plan.

I think that it worked exactly the same way this year. The difference is that Wade and his coaches did a better job of looking at the talent and figuring out what they needed.

I think ultimately Gary and Rick WERE responsible for those bad drafts and the bad selection of defensive players but not because they were picking the players but because they were picking the wrong defensive coaches to help pick the players.
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Old 05-02-2011   #26
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Default Re: Observations after the Draft

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I think your post is a good one. I agreed with a lot of it.

For what we had to work with (draft position) and what was there (available players) I felt we did a great job of utilizing the situation to get what was needed AND to get guys who really do fit the Wade Phillips scheme.

There was never a "WTH?" moment for me. Such as taking three TEs, or grabbing some small school "project pick" that comes off as being Rick Smith trying to find his diamond-in-the-rough defensive back selection to make him look like a genius for finding raw but unknown talent.

I think Rick Smith was generally helping previous Texans d-coords along the path of selecting the defensive talent in our drafts. Until now. This year, the draft picks for defense were regular, "known" players from schools who traditionally have competitive programs. It felt like Wade Phillips had his list and stuck to it. The overall "feel," to me, was that it was a focused effort with a real plan in place.

This draft, IMO, was a Wade Phillips draft. If my hunch is correct, then that means Wade is practically going to be his own boss and can do what he wants and how he wants to do it--Some of you may say, "Duh! It IS his job," but I don't think previous d-coords under Kubiak really pulled every lever and hit every button as it pertained to all aspects of the defense. They were more like glorified assistants or "caretakers" if I could describe it in those ways. The previous d-coords were clueless and had to have their hands held. Wade is a big boy and can get this thing handled, IMO.

This could be a real turnaround and not the sham that has been propped up for so long.

It's as if Smithiak have finally thrown their hands up (maybe even forced to, by Bob McNair?) and relinquished total control of the team. I have no proof, it's just based on being here since day 1 and having witnessed every move this team has made.
I think previous co=ordinators hired by Gary. Wade Phillips hired by Bob McNair.
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Old 05-02-2011   #27
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Default Re: Observations after the Draft

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I think ultimately Gary and Rick WERE responsible for those bad drafts and the bad selection of defensive players but not because they were picking the players but because they were picking the wrong defensive coaches to help pick the players.
In a way, "yes," but I can also see Rick and Gary telling Richard Smith and Frank Bush that they need to have some "help" with their selections.

It was probably just bad mojo all the way around, actually.

This year, a REAL d-coord appeared (to me) to be in beast mode. We even traded up to make sure we grabbed what was considered the last of the first tier of CBs still available.

No freaky-deekie WTH? moments in this draft.

A breath of fresh air. It felt like somebody might actually have a real plan and was after what he wanted to make the plan a reality.

It's only natural that NOW we have the possibility of a cancelled season. I freaking knew this would be happen: We'd have something to actually look forward to and the dreaded lockout ends up endangering it! $##@%!
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Old 05-02-2011   #28
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Default Re: Observations after the Draft

The Texans Defense has always appeared slow and weak and out positioned.

This draft has added speed and strength and tenacity!
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Old 05-02-2011   #29
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Default Re: Observationst anA after the Draft

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Observations after the Draft

A

Not an A+, not an A-minus............... Just an "A"
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Old 05-02-2011   #30
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Default Re: Observations after the Draft

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Originally Posted by b0ng View Post
I think I have a few observations I'd like to stick in here:
  • I am not a fan of them not grabbing somebody who could contribute to the return game in a big way as well as possibly contribute at secondary or WR. I don't think ST's did any favors for the rest of the team last year besides not blowing FG's.
Harris--Used as a kick-returner early in his career, returning 13 kicks as a freshman and two as a sophomore for a career average of 24.5 yards per return Link

Keo--Was team MVP in 07 when he started all 12 games and notched 81-0-4 while returning 19 punts for 319 yards (16.8-yard average), including a 100-yard touchdown against Northern Illinois. In 08, managed 31-0-0, a blocked kick and 4-59 (14.8) on punt returns in the first four games before undergoing season-ending reconstructive shoulder surgery. Added 13-133 (10.2) on punt returns and a 32-yard rush on a fake punt. In 10, started 12-of-13 games at strong safety and posted 61-5-3 with 6 tackles for loss, one sack and two forced fumbles. Also returned kickoffs 7-144 (24.4) and punts 17-74 (4.4). Link


Quote:
Rob Rang grades:
Houston Texas: B

I'm not as high on Arizona's Brooks Reed as some, but he does give the Texans competition with Brian Cushing and Connor Barwin as threats off the edge.
Rob needs to catch up...Cushing is moving to ILB.
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Old 05-02-2011   #31
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Default Re: Observations after the Draft

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Originally Posted by houstonspartan View Post
I'd say your overall characterization of Gary Kubiak being a great head coach is TOTALY unfounded.

My point was, Gary was not in charge of this draft. That was clear. Wade was the face of the team the entire time during the draft, and his opinion is obviously what counted.
Your retort had zero relevance to the quoted post. You claimed to know the inner-workings of Gary Kubiak's mind, claiming that he was pouting in a corner because he loves drafting offensive players. Someone presented factual evidence that Gary Kubiak does indeed draft defensive players, early in the draft and many in quantity.

No one ever stated "Gary Kubiak is a great head coach". Weak post.
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