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Old 04-28-2011   #121
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I agree with this.

But my point, is that you don't take a 3-4 DE with the 11th pick in the draft.
Would it be OK to do it with the 13th pick? That is what the Patriots did in 2003, drafting Ty Warren when they switched to a base 3-4. (They had been running hybrid out of the 4-3 base, previously.) That change also meant moving #6 pick Richard Seymour to 3-4 end. Worked out for them.
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Old 04-28-2011   #122
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Originally Posted by Tx Longhorn View Post
From everything I've read and seen from Badger fans who followed Watt's career, and from draft profile sites, noone will work harder than Watt.
Lets just hope he doesn't over train.

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Old 04-28-2011   #123
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Lets just hope he doesn't over train.

Mike
fat chance, he'll get plenty of advice
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Old 04-28-2011   #124
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Originally Posted by Texanmike View Post
No. The conversation was that he wasn't Reggie Bush or Vince Young. Everyone recognized that we didn't have a 4-3 DE on the roster, they just didn't think he was good enough to be number 1 overall.

Mike
That was a different conversation all together.

You don't take a 3-4 DE with the #1 overall regardless who he is not.

You don't take a 3-4 DE with a top ten pick & while 11 isn't a top ten, it's damn close.

& I understand the hybrid 3-4. But to take a DE this high in the draft, he's got to be slotted to replace Mario. Maybe play opposite Mario for one year then moving him to that spot eventually.

To me. Taking the best 5 tech in this draft for a 3-4 defense is like drafting a third down back with the #1 overall.
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Old 04-28-2011   #125
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

I'm going to let my imagination run wild for two seconds:

When the CBA is established, Kubiak trades Mario to his buddy Elway for Von Miller.

Logic tells me I'm off my rocker, but my gut tells me it's not far fetched..
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Old 04-28-2011   #126
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Lets just hope he doesn't over train.

Mike
Yeh. Just hope Cush doesn't needle him too much as a rookie.
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Old 04-28-2011   #127
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Originally Posted by MojoX View Post
Would it be OK to do it with the 13th pick? That is what the Patriots did in 2003, drafting Ty Warren when they switched to a base 3-4. (They had been running hybrid out of the 4-3 base, previously.) That change also meant moving #6 pick Richard Seymour to 3-4 end. Worked out for them.
I'll have to go back and see if I can watch some of those games. None of that is ringing a bell.

But just because the Patriots do it doesn't automatically make me think it's the right thing to do. They have had their share of draft flops as well.

Not that Warren or Seymour were flops.
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Old 04-28-2011   #128
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Originally Posted by Brisco_County View Post
I'm going to let my imagination run wild for two seconds:

When the CBA is established, Kubiak trades Mario to his buddy Elway for Von Miller.

Logic tells me I'm off my rocker, but my gut tells me it's not far fetched..
How about Mario for Champ Bailey?

We draft Brandon Harris in the second, Quin plays SS, Champ plays FS & mentors Allen, KJac, Harris, McManis, & McCain.
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Old 04-28-2011   #129
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

Watt is a better DE than Smith right now. Hopefully Watts intensity will rub off on AS and MW. (Doubtful)

Smith will provide great depth though.
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Old 04-28-2011   #130
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
That was a different conversation all together.

You don't take a 3-4 DE with the #1 overall regardless who he is not.

You don't take a 3-4 DE with a top ten pick & while 11 isn't a top ten, it's damn close.

& I understand the hybrid 3-4. But to take a DE this high in the draft, he's got to be slotted to replace Mario. Maybe play opposite Mario for one year then moving him to that spot eventually.

To me. Taking the best 5 tech in this draft for a 3-4 defense is like drafting a third down back with the #1 overall.
OK. I'm sure someone was having that conversation... but I don't remember that. I don't know that there is any position other than maybe kicker that you don't take with the number 1 pick. I mean a few years ago RBs were always taken in the first 3 or 4 picks... now they are less of a commodity... the game changes and people move up the boards. You don't take a DT with a top 3 pick either. If you are watching someone and they are saying "that's not good value" for that pick... Ingram was GREAT value at 11...

Mike
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Old 04-28-2011   #131
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Originally Posted by Carr Bombed View Post
J.J. Watt is one of the best athletes in the entire draft. How the heck does he have a "low ceiling"?

I love the pick. Now we need to back up that back 7 in round 2.
This, for me, makes up for Gary and Co. passing on Aaron Schobel last season.

JJ Watt is a young, healthy Aaron Schobel.

In unrelated draft news: Watching film of Mark Ingram, he reminds me of a heavier Emmitt Smith. The way Ingram moves around when finding his running lanes--very sneaky, as in "Ah, he's dead. What?!?! No way. Wow.--I think the Saints did well right there. They had to have a guy like that. A guy who can create his own luck instead of relying on 15 yards of open field to "create in."
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Old 04-28-2011   #132
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Originally Posted by steelbtexan View Post
Watt is a better DE than Smith right now. Hopefully Watts intensity will rub off on AS and MW. (Doubtful)

Smith will provide great depth though.
Smith?

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Old 04-28-2011   #133
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Originally Posted by thunderkyss View Post
I'll have to go back and see if I can watch some of those games. None of that is ringing a bell.

But just because the Patriots do it doesn't automatically make me think it's the right thing to do. They have had their share of draft flops as well.

Not that Warren or Seymour were flops.
While you search for video to verify the claim, use google and find media coverage second guessing the move when the Patriots made it. You'll find quotes from Belichick himself discussing the defensive changes.

3-4 ends don't fill the box score, but great ones make it possible for the LBs to swoop in and get the glory. You can't measure Seymour's impact on the Pats defense by his sack totals. But he was the core of that machine for quite a while.
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Old 04-28-2011   #134
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Originally Posted by MojoX View Post
While you search for video to verify the claim, use google and find media coverage second guessing the move when the Patriots made it. You'll find quotes from Belichick himself discussing the defensive changes.

3-4 ends don't fill the box score, but great ones make it possible for the LBs to swoop in and get the glory. You can't measure Seymour's impact on the Pats defense by his sack totals. But he was the core of that machine for quite a while.
When Pioli went to the Chiefs , who was his pick ?
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Old 04-28-2011   #135
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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What has Barwin done that Mark Anderson has not?

Anderson looks more fluid & explosive & if I were to guess, I would think he projects better at OLB than Barwin.

He had a hell of a rookie season, but dropped off around the same time that Bears defense mysteriously disappeared. Got a change of scenery in Houston & did a good job for a guy off the street.
I see alot of validity in this whole argument. It really goes to my deeper point that we really just don't have any solid OLBs. When your talking about a Connor Barwin, Mark Anderson, and Jesse Nading rotation, you realize just how poor the position is.

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IMO, if we aren't getting Quin or Von Miller in the first, I think Anderson..... Barwin..... even Nading just as promising as anyone left.
Obviously, judging by what I just said, I dont agree with this at all. We desperately need to upgrade the position through the draft IMO.
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Old 04-28-2011   #136
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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OK. I'm sure someone was having that conversation... but I don't remember that. I don't know that there is any position other than maybe kicker that you don't take with the number 1 pick. I mean a few years ago RBs were always taken in the first 3 or 4 picks... now they are less of a commodity... the game changes and people move up the boards. You don't take a DT with a top 3 pick either. If you are watching someone and they are saying "that's not good value" for that pick... Ingram was GREAT value at 11...

Mike
I think this is a keen observation. The market for different talent changes as offensive and defensive systems change in the league. Nearly half (?) of the NFL teams are running 3-4. That results in 3-4 personnel getting drafted higher. Supply and demand.
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Old 04-28-2011   #137
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Originally Posted by MojoX View Post
Would it be OK to do it with the 13th pick? That is what the Patriots did in 2003, drafting Ty Warren when they switched to a base 3-4. (They had been running hybrid out of the 4-3 base, previously.) That change also meant moving #6 pick Richard Seymour to 3-4 end. Worked out for them.
On point. Rep.
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Old 04-28-2011   #138
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

I wouldn't be surprised if we try to grab some sort of 3-4 NT in round 2.
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Old 04-29-2011   #139
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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I wouldn't be surprised if we try to grab some sort of 3-4 NT in round 2.
I'm thinking either linebacker or secondary. We haven't been able to do anything in free agency, and if we strike out there we have to have SOMEONE to play the positions. Even still, Mitchell and Cody don't excite me at all.

So many needs.
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Old 04-29-2011   #140
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Default Re: Selection 1.11: JJ Watt DE Wisconson

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Smith?

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